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Offline AdamBLevine

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[Proposal] Bounty for First Third Party AGS/PTS Honoring DAC
« on: March 03, 2014, 05:10:03 PM »

Invictus has sparked something great here, and it's time to incentivize others within and from outside the community to really get their hands dirty creating some of the first DACs that look at problems beyond making a market as Bitshares does.   There are dozens of great ideas bouncing around this forum, but lacking a good example to follow few are willing to jump in.

Angelshares has been a wildly successful fundraising effort, these funds are being put to use but the bottleneck in the sitaution is clearly Invictus.   

Invictus recently allocated 10,000 PTS for use in their internal marketing budget - This represents one of the largest single expenditures to date, but just a fraction (less than 1%) of Invictus's PTS holdings.   I believe this is the appropriate amount to offer for the first DAC that meets the following goals

  • It Honors the Social Contract and grants at least 10% to both Angelshares and Protoshares holders
  • It conforms to the characteristics of a true DAC, it must be Autonomous and it must be Decentralized
  • It survives for at least six months
and the thing that makes it uniquely Invictus
  • It is the most profitable for the token holders compared to other models over a three month time horizon

Obviously this is a long term bounty, but just announcing such a thing help people understand why they would actually want to hold PTS because there will obviously be people building these things, competing for the large prize.  Even at current valuations, that's over 100BTC.   

Because the prize is being awarded in fixed amount of a currency (PTS) that gains value based on people speculating on its future value, by the time you finally pay out the prize it should be ENORMOUS.   And because the tokens are fungible, you will have inadvertently dragged everybody who is holding protoshares value up along with it.

I do not believe Bitshares or any derivatives should be included in this contest, but I have no problem with other invictus products being in the race since competition causes all players to up their game.

This is the right thing to do, and I believe the community at large should be behind this.  Please post any comments or questions
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Offline barwizi

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Re: [Proposal] Bounty for First Third Party AGS/PTS Honoring DAC
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2014, 05:20:21 PM »
I agree, this would be a good idea.

 +5%

Hopefully we wont just see copy and paste jobs, the alt-coin industry is failing due to that. Even if someone comes up with a good idea, i'm sure if they ask for coding assistance they will get help.
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Offline onceuponatime

Re: [Proposal] Bounty for First Third Party AGS/PTS Honoring DAC
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2014, 05:20:34 PM »
100% in agreement. Wonderful idea Adam.

Offline G1ng3rBr34dM4n

Re: [Proposal] Bounty for First Third Party AGS/PTS Honoring DAC
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2014, 05:55:02 PM »
Adam - can you elaborate what you're referring to when you say "makes it uniquely Invictus"?


Offline CLains

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Re: [Proposal] Bounty for First Third Party AGS/PTS Honoring DAC
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2014, 07:13:00 PM »
Good idea. I think they could launch this prize in connection with the Shark Tank incubator competition.

I suggested they should https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2775.msg34619
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Offline AdamBLevine

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Re: [Proposal] Bounty for First Third Party AGS/PTS Honoring DAC
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2014, 07:19:20 PM »
Adam - can you elaborate what you're referring to when you say "makes it uniquely Invictus"?

Daniel likes to say that Invictus is different from all the other 2.0 products because they're building profitable businesses for "share"holders.  He has the economics of the situation right and others do not.

So it seems like if that's a defining factor, it's one Invictus will want to incentivize others to follow moving when they are spending funds to incentivize certain behaviors.

Good idea. I think they could launch this prize in connection with the Shark Tank incubator competition.

I suggested they should https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2775.msg34619

Yes, I totally agree - The "Shark Tank" can be the way people can get early seed funding for these projects which then chase after the big prize.

I would be willing to sit on the sharktank panel, advise and judge.
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Offline Azuos

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Re: [Proposal] Bounty for First Third Party AGS/PTS Honoring DAC
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2014, 07:12:16 PM »
This makes a lot of sense.  I wish I has a background in programming, there are so many opportunities out there right now with gigantic upsides!

Offline phoenix

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Re: [Proposal] Bounty for First Third Party AGS/PTS Honoring DAC
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2014, 09:40:05 PM »
I wish I could learn programming faster! Once I get good at it I've got a couple of ideas I want to try
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Offline TsonicTsunami

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Re: [Proposal] Bounty for First Third Party AGS/PTS Honoring DAC
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2014, 10:43:01 PM »
I think it is a wonderful idea. I'm grateful you're still on board Adam. I was one of the folks who dove into Invictus and Protoshares after hearing the LTB podcast. After reading some of your comments I thought you had soured on I3. I think there may have been some communicative issues initially but it's going to work out. Seeing you extend yourself for the benefit of the community is reassuring. Thanks

Offline AdamBLevine

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Re: [Proposal] Bounty for First Third Party AGS/PTS Honoring DAC
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2014, 12:02:31 AM »
I think it is a wonderful idea. I'm grateful you're still on board Adam. I was one of the folks who dove into Invictus and Protoshares after hearing the LTB podcast. After reading some of your comments I thought you had soured on I3. I think there may have been some communicative issues initially but it's going to work out. Seeing you extend yourself for the benefit of the community is reassuring. Thanks

To be perfectly honest I have soured on Invictus, I hope they will regain my trust as an investor by making realistic promises and delivering on them. 
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Offline TsonicTsunami

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Re: [Proposal] Bounty for First Third Party AGS/PTS Honoring DAC
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2014, 12:56:32 AM »
Well, then I am doubly assured. While you disagree with the management style you beleive the platform is sound or you wouldn't do this. It's early, I think they are good men with great ideas who are scrambling to launch. Kinda like making sausage, it ain't pretty.

Offline ssjpts

Re: [Proposal] Bounty for First Third Party AGS/PTS Honoring DAC
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2014, 03:17:46 AM »
why must the 3rd DAC do this?1.It Honors the Social Contract and grants at least 10% to both Angelshares and Protoshares holders
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Offline AdamBLevine

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Re: [Proposal] Bounty for First Third Party AGS/PTS Honoring DAC
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2014, 05:33:38 AM »
I'm always interested but right now my time is 150% overbooked.   I canceled three speaking engagements and a trip to texas to work on the projects I have now, and today I missed a meeting with a very mainstream artist about a custom coin because of being triple booked.

So I'd love to help, but no.   I will invest crypto in your effort if you create a proto-coin for a DAC making company that can follow its own rules.  competition breeds efficiency.
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Offline Stan

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Re: [Proposal] Bounty for First Third Party AGS/PTS Honoring DAC
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2014, 03:02:24 AM »
We generally love the idea!

But help me to understand how this is different that what we've been talking about as a Shark Tank contest since the February newsletter:
Quote
Shark Tank Model.  Given our crypto-Austrian view of economics, there’s naturally got to be a competition! We are considering the popular TV show Shark Tank as a model (http://www.cnbc.com/id/101229255). 

Bring us your business plan, win the hearts and minds of our community, and get past the industry leaders on our Panel of Judges at our Las Vegas Beyond Bitcoin Summit and you could win our support in incubating your new company.  What’s that include?  Well, there are many things we could provide depending upon the nature of the help your new start-up may need.  For example:

•   A stipend to work in one of our incubators for a period of time.
•   The legal fees to set up your company in its chosen favorable jurisdiction.
•   Fully equipped office space at one of our incubator sites.
•   Forum and web site support while you build you own base of supporters.
•   Crypto-savvy legal, accounting, financial and tax support.
•   Use of our trusted escrow services while you are building your own reputation.
•   Consulting with Dan “bytemaster” Larimer and our team of innovators.
•   Help with finding opportunities to speak at a major conference.
•   Promotional support integrated with our own global marketing campaign.

Here are some of the judging criteria that might apply.  What others have we missed?

1.   Business model.  How does your DAC make money for its shareholders?
2.   Technical approach.  What are the underlying technologies you will use?
3.   Regulatory environment.  Have you selected a favorable legal jurisdiction?
4.   Team Qualifications.  Does your proposed company have what it takes to succeed?
5.   Diversity.  Does your company bring participation from other regions of the globe.
6.   Popularity.  How much donation-backed grass-roots support do you have?

The competition might have room for, say, five finalists who would compete in our own shark tank.  Your first task would be to earn the right to become one of those finalists.  Here is how to start:

1.   Start a discussion thread in our forum where you explain your idea to everyone.
2.   Commit to honor the BitShares Social Contract as your first posting there.
3.   Explain your qualifications, resources and the kind of start-up help you are seeking.
4.   Submit a synopsis (2000 words max) as a .pdf file published in your forum thread.
5.   Be chosen as a finalist by our “shark tank” Panel of Judges.

If you were chosen as a finalist, we can help set up an “angel shares” style escrow account for you to receive donations from patrons who believe in your idea and want to capture an early stake in it.  It would be up to you to define a proposed social consensus that will attract donations to your cause.  This is a way the BitShares community could “vote” for your idea and the amount you raise by some deadline would be a factor in the judges’ decision.

Then you might be invited to do the following:

1.   Submit a formal proposal (10,000 words max) following rules to be published.
2.   Present a 30-minute sales pitch to our judges and audience in Las Vegas.
3.   Participate in a 20-minute question period with our audience and judges.

After up to five finalists have presented, the judges would announce the first BitShares shark tank winner.  Even if you don’t win, the publicity and support gathered from the competition would give all finalists a big head start.  The result could be up to five new DACs for PTS and AGS holders to own and support.

If you don’t have an idea for a DAC yet, our forum is full of exciting concepts, including those of our own we have shared.  Think of the potential variations on BitShares X alone!  Many of these DACs will eventually be developed by Invictus if no others step forward to accept the challenge.  But we are hoping that by offering a helping hand, we can encourage many new companies to take their place with us as founders of this exciting new industry.

We are still at the early planning stages - this article is just to start a discussion on how best to build an industry of independent developers of incorruptible unmanned companies.  Much of what we do will depend on whether there are enough qualified start-up candidates who want to participate.   We will listen and seek opportunities wherever we can find them.   Let us know what you think!

After reading that, how can you say that we have not offered a plan to involve third-party developers when that's the whole point of the above Featured Article and the Beyond Bitcoin conference and most of our marketing budget between now and then?
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline AdamBLevine

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Re: [Proposal] Bounty for First Third Party AGS/PTS Honoring DAC
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2014, 03:12:37 AM »
We generally love the idea!

But help me to understand how this is different that what we've been talking about as a Shark Tank contest since the February newsletter:
Quote
Shark Tank Model.  Given our crypto-Austrian view of economics, there’s naturally got to be a competition! We are considering the popular TV show Shark Tank as a model (http://www.cnbc.com/id/101229255). 

Bring us your business plan, win the hearts and minds of our community, and get past the industry leaders on our Panel of Judges at our Las Vegas Beyond Bitcoin Summit and you could win our support in incubating your new company.  What’s that include?  Well, there are many things we could provide depending upon the nature of the help your new start-up may need.  For example:

•   A stipend to work in one of our incubators for a period of time.
•   The legal fees to set up your company in its chosen favorable jurisdiction.
•   Fully equipped office space at one of our incubator sites.
•   Forum and web site support while you build you own base of supporters.
•   Crypto-savvy legal, accounting, financial and tax support.
•   Use of our trusted escrow services while you are building your own reputation.
•   Consulting with Dan “bytemaster” Larimer and our team of innovators.
•   Help with finding opportunities to speak at a major conference.
•   Promotional support integrated with our own global marketing campaign.

Here are some of the judging criteria that might apply.  What others have we missed?

1.   Business model.  How does your DAC make money for its shareholders?
2.   Technical approach.  What are the underlying technologies you will use?
3.   Regulatory environment.  Have you selected a favorable legal jurisdiction?
4.   Team Qualifications.  Does your proposed company have what it takes to succeed?
5.   Diversity.  Does your company bring participation from other regions of the globe.
6.   Popularity.  How much donation-backed grass-roots support do you have?

The competition might have room for, say, five finalists who would compete in our own shark tank.  Your first task would be to earn the right to become one of those finalists.  Here is how to start:

1.   Start a discussion thread in our forum where you explain your idea to everyone.
2.   Commit to honor the BitShares Social Contract as your first posting there.
3.   Explain your qualifications, resources and the kind of start-up help you are seeking.
4.   Submit a synopsis (2000 words max) as a .pdf file published in your forum thread.
5.   Be chosen as a finalist by our “shark tank” Panel of Judges.

If you were chosen as a finalist, we can help set up an “angel shares” style escrow account for you to receive donations from patrons who believe in your idea and want to capture an early stake in it.  It would be up to you to define a proposed social consensus that will attract donations to your cause.  This is a way the BitShares community could “vote” for your idea and the amount you raise by some deadline would be a factor in the judges’ decision.

Then you might be invited to do the following:

1.   Submit a formal proposal (10,000 words max) following rules to be published.
2.   Present a 30-minute sales pitch to our judges and audience in Las Vegas.
3.   Participate in a 20-minute question period with our audience and judges.

After up to five finalists have presented, the judges would announce the first BitShares shark tank winner.  Even if you don’t win, the publicity and support gathered from the competition would give all finalists a big head start.  The result could be up to five new DACs for PTS and AGS holders to own and support.

If you don’t have an idea for a DAC yet, our forum is full of exciting concepts, including those of our own we have shared.  Think of the potential variations on BitShares X alone!  Many of these DACs will eventually be developed by Invictus if no others step forward to accept the challenge.  But we are hoping that by offering a helping hand, we can encourage many new companies to take their place with us as founders of this exciting new industry.

We are still at the early planning stages - this article is just to start a discussion on how best to build an industry of independent developers of incorruptible unmanned companies.  Much of what we do will depend on whether there are enough qualified start-up candidates who want to participate.   We will listen and seek opportunities wherever we can find them.   Let us know what you think!

After reading that, how can you say that we have not offered a plan to involve third-party developers when that's the whole point of the above Featured Article and the Beyond Bitcoin conference and most of our marketing budget between now and then?

Because you're picking projects to fund rather than laying out the very basic things a successful dac requires, putting out a bounty and letting teams opt to go after your eco system

Right now you're making them pitch to you, and you've centralized the process on daniel.  Just define what a successful ideal dac looks like after six months of operation and let the market decide, not any man!
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 03:44:00 AM by AdamBLevine »
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