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Offline fuzzy

Help me understand why I should trust Ethereum...
« on: March 04, 2014, 08:07:51 AM »

"ex" Goldman Sachs...really bothers me.  Why even take the risk of adding these people to the mix? 

The stakes are very high and though I tend to believe in a good few conspiracies, I am trying to understand why I should not be concerned with "one block chain to rule them all", "ex" Goldman Sachs "advisors", a pyramid structure placed in the logo (though, thank god, no "all-seeing eye"), and the token ironically being called "Ether".  Any one or even two of these would not be so bad...but all of these together make me want to go back and get my tin-foil helmet...and armor. 

I will check back here periodically to read the answers...and hope I can be convinced that Bitcoin technology is not being co-opted by "low level" individuals with historical ties to known Terrorist Banking Cartels.   

For now, back to work!
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 08:09:38 AM by fuznuts »
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Offline luckybit

Re: Help me understand why I should trust Ethereum...
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2014, 11:38:27 AM »
"ex" Goldman Sachs...really bothers me.  Why even take the risk of adding these people to the mix? 

The stakes are very high and though I tend to believe in a good few conspiracies, I am trying to understand why I should not be concerned with "one block chain to rule them all", "ex" Goldman Sachs "advisors", a pyramid structure placed in the logo (though, thank god, no "all-seeing eye"), and the token ironically being called "Ether".  Any one or even two of these would not be so bad...but all of these together make me want to go back and get my tin-foil helmet...and armor. 

I will check back here periodically to read the answers...and hope I can be convinced that Bitcoin technology is not being co-opted by "low level" individuals with historical ties to known Terrorist Banking Cartels.   

For now, back to work!

What do you mean by "trust"?
You can't trust Satoshi either. For all you know Satoshi himself could be a group of people which included a former Goldman Sachs employee.
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Offline unimercio

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Re: Help me understand why I should trust Ethereum...
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2014, 12:34:47 PM »
"ex" Goldman Sachs...really bothers me.  Why even take the risk of adding these people to the mix? 

The stakes are very high and though I tend to believe in a good few conspiracies, I am trying to understand why I should not be concerned with "one block chain to rule them all", "ex" Goldman Sachs "advisors", a pyramid structure placed in the logo (though, thank god, no "all-seeing eye"), and the token ironically being called "Ether".  Any one or even two of these would not be so bad...but all of these together make me want to go back and get my tin-foil helmet...and armor. 

I will check back here periodically to read the answers...and hope I can be convinced that Bitcoin technology is not being co-opted by "low level" individuals with historical ties to known Terrorist Banking Cartels.   

For now, back to work!

What do you mean by "trust"?
You can't trust Satoshi either. For all you know Satoshi himself could be a group of people which included a former Goldman Sachs employee.

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Offline unimercio

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Re: Help me understand why I should trust Ethereum...
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2014, 12:41:28 PM »
"ex" Goldman Sachs...really bothers me.  Why even take the risk of adding these people to the mix? 

The stakes are very high and though I tend to believe in a good few conspiracies, I am trying to understand why I should not be concerned with "one block chain to rule them all", "ex" Goldman Sachs "advisors", a pyramid structure placed in the logo (though, thank god, no "all-seeing eye"), and the token ironically being called "Ether".  Any one or even two of these would not be so bad...but all of these together make me want to go back and get my tin-foil helmet...and armor. 

I will check back here periodically to read the answers...and hope I can be convinced that Bitcoin technology is not being co-opted by "low level" individuals with historical ties to known Terrorist Banking Cartels.   

For now, back to work!

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Offline toast

Re: Help me understand why I should trust Ethereum...
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2014, 01:45:13 PM »
Goldman sachs is such a red herring. You can't work at a bank without permanently tainting any subsequent project you work on?
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Offline AdamBLevine

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Re: Help me understand why I should trust Ethereum...
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2014, 02:06:54 PM »
I believe the "goldman sachs" objection to ethereum is very similar "bitshares is a bank" objection.  Both of them take an analogy and mistake it for a direct comparison or affiliation.

You should "trust" ethereum for the reasons you "trust" any project, including Bitshares.  Because you think they solve a problem you think is important.  Because they do it in a way that lends you to believe they will be trustworthy in the future.  Because they paint the vision clearly and in a way everyone can understand.

Ethereum is early, but they do already have a testnet up with a smart contract platform with windows executable installers, so from where I sit that puts them at least parallel to Bitshares production even with a four month later start and not yet having funded.
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Offline unimercio

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Re: Help me understand why I should trust Ethereum...
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2014, 02:54:19 PM »
I believe the "goldman sachs" objection to ethereum is very similar "bitshares is a bank" objection.  Both of them take an analogy and mistake it for a direct comparison or affiliation.

You should "trust" ethereum for the reasons you "trust" any project, including Bitshares.  Because you think they solve a problem you think is important.  Because they do it in a way that lends you to believe they will be trustworthy in the future.  Because they paint the vision clearly and in a way everyone can understand.

Ethereum is early, but they do already have a testnet up with a smart contract platform with windows executable installers, so from where I sit that puts them at least parallel to Bitshares production even with a four month later start and not yet having funded.


+5% I support both and expect common ground will be found and built on, each has lessons to learn from the other and each faces the same detractors.

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Offline CLains

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Re: Help me understand why I should trust Ethereum...
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2014, 03:19:19 PM »
I think that's unfair fuznuts. Until we know more we should suspend judgement. In addition, so long as they are decentralizing as they promise there's no need to trust. I think we'll get a better understanding of how Ethereum plans to do business when they launch their funding strategy. That more than anything else should be a good indicator of where they want to go.
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Offline stupid_american

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Re: Help me understand why I should trust Ethereum...
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2014, 03:57:54 PM »
Fuznuts, I'm quite likely not telling you much of anything that you don't already know, but here are my thoughts on the matter: there aren't much of any thoughts on the matter. Having an ex-GS employee work in an entrepreneurial pursuit that involves finance is about as offensive as seeing a gay person in San Franicisco (i.e. it doesn't even register). In fact, investment banks and management consulting firms recruit at top schools and are pretty much the standard career path after undergrad. Would you rather have the guy that didn't get the GS gig and instead worked at some middle market bank we've never heard of? Not working at GS due to being on a moral high-horse comes off to me as likely coming from a position of privilege, especially since most ppl would practically kill to make that kind of money and aren't from a background to likely even know what an investment banker is in the first place, not being from NY, Boston, SF, etc. And were these ppl even banksters, or did they just work for GS? Even if they were banksters, if they were just analysts, you can take solace in knowing that they were the n00bs who got shit on constantly, worked longer hours than their coworkers and really didn't make all that much money.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 04:03:26 PM by stupid_american »

Offline fuzzy

Re: Help me understand why I should trust Ethereum...
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2014, 12:11:27 AM »
There is a very real reason I ask this question.  One of which is that there are known ties to real terrorism that run through these institutions.  Another is that I feel we as a community should expect more from those building the future platforms upon which we will rely and should always remain cognizant of the darker side of things--which we as a community tend to all-too-often overlook (we are idealists by nature--*cough, Gox, cough*.  The cartels and their syndicates are elegant opponents and one need not read the Art of War to understand how these banking cartels have a penchant for co-opting potentially beautiful grass-roots movements from the inside, often redirecting those movements' heroes efforts to undermining the very idea they intended to perpetuate.

As for the Bitshares as banks argument, this is tough precisely because Bitshares is using libraries of existing (and tested) code in addition to multiple blockchains as opposed to the "one chain to rule them all" concept.  I have been pretty hard on them in the past...mostly because I have personally seen what the Petro Dollar has accomplished in third world countries and have an abhorrence for the very real "secret societies" who are constantly at work across the spectrum of human existence.

Then there is always news like this:  http://trutube.tv/video/20662/Bankers-Dropping-Like-Flies

As for working for GS at some point in ones career, I suppose you make a very good point...but at the same time it would sit better on the stomach had they moved toward advisers who had more of this mentality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghpeshRDE8g   
I am simply concerned with the potential--especially when those promoting it have really seemed to gain a marketing edge that few true grassroots campaigns get (grass roots takes a long time to build).  It is probably best to refrain from judgment from now on, though.  I hope this is just tin-foil hat stuff, but unfortunately over the years I have found much of that tin-foil hat stuff to be true.  And co-opting of movements, throughout history, has proven to be the rule as opposed to the exception.  As the saying goes, reality is stranger than fiction...

Thank you all for acknowledging this post as it is very dear to my heart...especially when I look at this little guy laying in his crib at night.  He is the reason I chose Invictus, because I personally feel like Dan would be in the camp represented by the second link as opposed to the first.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 01:04:56 AM by fuznuts »
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