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Offline bytemaster

How a DAC can hire its own management and development team.
« on: March 07, 2014, 10:43:26 PM »

As everyone has probably discovered when they design a DAC that one of the hardest things to solve is how a DAC can hire someone to perform tasks that require human judgement.   Memory Coin 2.0 was the first attempt at such a concept where there were several positions for which the users could vote to hire specific roles.  As everyone quickly learned, this voting process was subject to manipulation. 

Since discovering the solution to hiring Insurance Adjusters for the Insurance DAC I have been thinking about how we can apply that process in a more general manner and thus open up the door to many more DACs.  For those of you who have not read about the Insurance DAC, let me review the problem:

1) We need an Insurance Adjuster to evaluate claims and decide upon a payout.
2) Claims may be private and most people do not have access to the information necessary to make a solid judgment. This rules out using a prediction market to establish the result.
3) If we were to select someone to have authority to payout claims, then how do we prevent complete fraud?  We want someone who will deny fraudulent claims, pay out fairly for legitimate claims, and not pay any more than necessary. 

To solve this problem I came up with the idea of using a prediction market (BitAsset) to set the upper limit on total outstanding payouts that may be authorized by the Insurance Adjustor at any one time, and I used a 30 day delay to give the market time to identify gross fraud and repeal the license and thus cancel any pending awards.   

This general idea can be used on a broader scale to have the DAC hire anyone to do anything.    So if a DAC needs to hire a software developer to maintain the software and fix bugs, then many different developers would have to 'interview' with the market and get enough support (market depth) for a BitAsset to be created that priced their salary.   The salary would be paid out of revenues (or via raising capital by the issuance of new shares).   The salary would be paid daily and with 30 day waiting period.  The salary rate would equals the lowest salary in the 30 days after the work was performed as represented by the BitAsset for that developer.   If the developer slacks off or acts in a way the market does not approve then his salary will go to 0.   

Here is the cool thing, anyone could apply for any job without having to define 'roles'.   Some jobs may become entire departments where the DAC hires the department heads and gives them a budget they are trusted with.   

With this design pattern we now have the means for a DAC to do literally anything because it has a way to interview, try, and they hire anyone for any job and even the ability to define new jobs as necessary without any centralized control.



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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline wasthatawolf

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Re: How a DAC can hire its own management and development team.
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2014, 01:03:20 AM »
How do you envision someone interviewing with the market?

Offline bytemaster

Re: How a DAC can hire its own management and development team.
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2014, 02:49:20 AM »
How do you envision someone interviewing with the market?

They have to market themselves and convince people to bid up the BitAsset that represents their budget/salary. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

bitbro

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Re: How a DAC can hire its own management and development team.
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2014, 04:08:27 AM »
Take it as a given that both companies have the same demand for service: do you believe these people working for a DAC will be able to earn more money than they would at a traditional company?


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Offline phoenix

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Re: How a DAC can hire its own management and development team.
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2014, 04:40:57 AM »
Interesting idea, although it sounds like it would be hard to implement. Where exactly is the DAC getting the funds to pay the developers? Would it be from transaction fees, or would the DAC have a storage of currency to pay developers?
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Offline bytemaster

Re: How a DAC can hire its own management and development team.
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2014, 05:52:22 AM »
Interesting idea, although it sounds like it would be hard to implement. Where exactly is the DAC getting the funds to pay the developers? Would it be from transaction fees, or would the DAC have a storage of currency to pay developers?

A DAC has the power to issue shares to raise capital... in this case human capital.  So long as the shares it issues are governed by market forces and directed toward individuals whom the market wants to fund, any individual can gain funding through the issuance of new shares.

For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline mint chocolate chip

Re: How a DAC can hire its own management and development team.
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2014, 07:10:53 AM »

Offline luckybit

Re: How a DAC can hire its own management and development team.
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2014, 10:26:03 AM »
As everyone has probably discovered when they design a DAC that one of the hardest things to solve is how a DAC can hire someone to perform tasks that require human judgement.   Memory Coin 2.0 was the first attempt at such a concept where there were several positions for which the users could vote to hire specific roles.  As everyone quickly learned, this voting process was subject to manipulation. 

Since discovering the solution to hiring Insurance Adjusters for the Insurance DAC I have been thinking about how we can apply that process in a more general manner and thus open up the door to many more DACs.  For those of you who have not read about the Insurance DAC, let me review the problem:

1) We need an Insurance Adjuster to evaluate claims and decide upon a payout.
2) Claims may be private and most people do not have access to the information necessary to make a solid judgment. This rules out using a prediction market to establish the result.
3) If we were to select someone to have authority to payout claims, then how do we prevent complete fraud?  We want someone who will deny fraudulent claims, pay out fairly for legitimate claims, and not pay any more than necessary. 

To solve this problem I came up with the idea of using a prediction market (BitAsset) to set the upper limit on total outstanding payouts that may be authorized by the Insurance Adjustor at any one time, and I used a 30 day delay to give the market time to identify gross fraud and repeal the license and thus cancel any pending awards.   

This general idea can be used on a broader scale to have the DAC hire anyone to do anything.    So if a DAC needs to hire a software developer to maintain the software and fix bugs, then many different developers would have to 'interview' with the market and get enough support (market depth) for a BitAsset to be created that priced their salary.   The salary would be paid out of revenues (or via raising capital by the issuance of new shares).   The salary would be paid daily and with 30 day waiting period.  The salary rate would equals the lowest salary in the 30 days after the work was performed as represented by the BitAsset for that developer.   If the developer slacks off or acts in a way the market does not approve then his salary will go to 0.   

Here is the cool thing, anyone could apply for any job without having to define 'roles'.   Some jobs may become entire departments where the DAC hires the department heads and gives them a budget they are trusted with.   

With this design pattern we now have the means for a DAC to do literally anything because it has a way to interview, try, and they hire anyone for any job and even the ability to define new jobs as necessary without any centralized control.

Powerful ideas. What about the ability to have DACs contract out other DACs? Would this process allow for that as well?
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Offline santaclause102

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Re: How a DAC can hire its own management and development team.
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2014, 11:14:27 AM »
Take it as a given that both companies have the same demand for service: do you believe these people working for a DAC will be able to earn more money than they would at a traditional company?


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The DAC company is more profitable because it is more efficient ( if it works ;) ) so the DAC company could pay better. On the other side no one pays more than neccesary in a market. So the pay depends on how many people would rather work for the DAC company rather than the traditional company, on how essential (compared to the trad. company) it is to the DAC business' ability to generate profit to have a highly skilled emmployee in the respective position and on how rare those needed qualifications are.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: How a DAC can hire its own management and development team.
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2014, 11:18:44 AM »
As everyone has probably discovered when they design a DAC that one of the hardest things to solve is how a DAC can hire someone to perform tasks that require human judgement.   Memory Coin 2.0 was the first attempt at such a concept where there were several positions for which the users could vote to hire specific roles.  As everyone quickly learned, this voting process was subject to manipulation. 

Since discovering the solution to hiring Insurance Adjusters for the Insurance DAC I have been thinking about how we can apply that process in a more general manner and thus open up the door to many more DACs.  For those of you who have not read about the Insurance DAC, let me review the problem:

1) We need an Insurance Adjuster to evaluate claims and decide upon a payout.
2) Claims may be private and most people do not have access to the information necessary to make a solid judgment. This rules out using a prediction market to establish the result.
3) If we were to select someone to have authority to payout claims, then how do we prevent complete fraud?  We want someone who will deny fraudulent claims, pay out fairly for legitimate claims, and not pay any more than necessary. 

To solve this problem I came up with the idea of using a prediction market (BitAsset) to set the upper limit on total outstanding payouts that may be authorized by the Insurance Adjustor at any one time, and I used a 30 day delay to give the market time to identify gross fraud and repeal the license and thus cancel any pending awards.   

This general idea can be used on a broader scale to have the DAC hire anyone to do anything.    So if a DAC needs to hire a software developer to maintain the software and fix bugs, then many different developers would have to 'interview' with the market and get enough support (market depth) for a BitAsset to be created that priced their salary.   The salary would be paid out of revenues (or via raising capital by the issuance of new shares).   The salary would be paid daily and with 30 day waiting period.  The salary rate would equals the lowest salary in the 30 days after the work was performed as represented by the BitAsset for that developer.   If the developer slacks off or acts in a way the market does not approve then his salary will go to 0.   

Here is the cool thing, anyone could apply for any job without having to define 'roles'.   Some jobs may become entire departments where the DAC hires the department heads and gives them a budget they are trusted with.   

With this design pattern we now have the means for a DAC to do literally anything because it has a way to interview, try, and they hire anyone for any job and even the ability to define new jobs as necessary without any centralized control.

I like the concept a lot!
A neccessary requirement to make this work would be the size of the DAC business being big enough so the prediction markets would be big enough to not be manipulated easily.

Offline donkeypong

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Re: How a DAC can hire its own management and development team.
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2014, 05:51:19 AM »
As everyone has probably discovered when they design a DAC that one of the hardest things to solve is how a DAC can hire someone to perform tasks that require human judgement.   Memory Coin 2.0 was the first attempt at such a concept where there were several positions for which the users could vote to hire specific roles.  As everyone quickly learned, this voting process was subject to manipulation. 

Since discovering the solution to hiring Insurance Adjusters for the Insurance DAC I have been thinking about how we can apply that process in a more general manner and thus open up the door to many more DACs.  For those of you who have not read about the Insurance DAC, let me review the problem:

1) We need an Insurance Adjuster to evaluate claims and decide upon a payout.
2) Claims may be private and most people do not have access to the information necessary to make a solid judgment. This rules out using a prediction market to establish the result.
3) If we were to select someone to have authority to payout claims, then how do we prevent complete fraud?  We want someone who will deny fraudulent claims, pay out fairly for legitimate claims, and not pay any more than necessary. 

To solve this problem I came up with the idea of using a prediction market (BitAsset) to set the upper limit on total outstanding payouts that may be authorized by the Insurance Adjustor at any one time, and I used a 30 day delay to give the market time to identify gross fraud and repeal the license and thus cancel any pending awards.   

This general idea can be used on a broader scale to have the DAC hire anyone to do anything.    So if a DAC needs to hire a software developer to maintain the software and fix bugs, then many different developers would have to 'interview' with the market and get enough support (market depth) for a BitAsset to be created that priced their salary.   The salary would be paid out of revenues (or via raising capital by the issuance of new shares).   The salary would be paid daily and with 30 day waiting period.  The salary rate would equals the lowest salary in the 30 days after the work was performed as represented by the BitAsset for that developer.   If the developer slacks off or acts in a way the market does not approve then his salary will go to 0.   

Here is the cool thing, anyone could apply for any job without having to define 'roles'.   Some jobs may become entire departments where the DAC hires the department heads and gives them a budget they are trusted with.   

With this design pattern we now have the means for a DAC to do literally anything because it has a way to interview, try, and they hire anyone for any job and even the ability to define new jobs as necessary without any centralized control.

I REALLY like this. Time will test it, and the concept may need tweeking, but I think you've fundamentally answered the question of how to allow a human the control to make value judgments while also maintaining community oversight. Essentially, nothing is finalized until it moves through "escrow". One other thought might be that, if there is a large enough market and people competing to offer these jobs/services, then "likes" (a la Facebook) or "ratings" (a la eBay) might be added to incentivize good behavior. Just another idea.

Offline wasthatawolf

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Re: How a DAC can hire its own management and development team.
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2014, 06:56:00 PM »
How do you envision someone interviewing with the market?

They have to market themselves and convince people to bid up the BitAsset that represents their budget/salary. 

Market themselves by broadcasting their qualifications to DAC shareholders through information tied to their BitAsset?  I'm having a hard time visualizing how this would work in practice.  Would the DAC wallet have some kind of feature where people can view each applicant's BitAsset which contains information regarding their qualifications?

I think this is an awesome idea.  Those adjusters with valuable BitAssets could also make money by offering training programs for new adjusters then vouch for their skill set once they've completed training.

merockstar

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Re: How a DAC can hire its own management and development team.
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2014, 07:59:43 AM »
I want to get in right now and say that I want to be an insurance adjuster when the DAC comes out.

When it comes out, and people start applying to the market for this job, I'm going to point back to this post to demonstrate how long standing my interest in the position is.

I love this whole concept of decentralized job creation. I think I have the critical thinking skills and judgement to do this job correctly. I can't wait for the DAC to come out so I can find out where to sign up. I would love to make a living doing something like this.

Offline luckybit

Re: How a DAC can hire its own management and development team.
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2014, 01:03:43 PM »
How do you envision someone interviewing with the market?

They have to market themselves and convince people to bid up the BitAsset that represents their budget/salary. 

Market themselves by broadcasting their qualifications to DAC shareholders through information tied to their BitAsset?  I'm having a hard time visualizing how this would work in practice.  Would the DAC wallet have some kind of feature where people can view each applicant's BitAsset which contains information regarding their qualifications?

I think this is an awesome idea.  Those adjusters with valuable BitAssets could also make money by offering training programs for new adjusters then vouch for their skill set once they've completed training.

Why not just let their track record be qualifications? If you've done something before or you have a reputation attached to your Keyhotee then that is your qualifications. If you've never done something before then you earn a reputation over time. DAC experience would be represented by how many DACs you've worked for and the outcomes.

@merockstar

Count me in as well. I'm interested in being one of the first participants in the DAC.

I think the particular role describd here is best if done pseudo anon. There will probably be pressure to corrupt the people who make the decisions. If done right you could simply have anonymous employees check the previously made decisions. They would have to be paid as well.

Coinsigner seems to have a model which can work for this. I think there are a lot of ways to do hiring and firing, to automate the process, you can do it with or without voting but there are different advantages to each. For some jobs you need a selection process but if any specific humans are in control of the process then the whole process can become corrupt.

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« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 01:18:50 PM by luckybit »
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Offline barwizi

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Re: How a DAC can hire its own management and development team.
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2014, 01:14:38 PM »
We stipulate the use of performance contracts to keep efficiency at a maximum. Rather tahn voting systems which can be manipulated, we opt to use  an officers' performance as a means of retaining employment or being fired. The initial employment uses what luckybit just mentioned, reputation.
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