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Offline oco101

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[Proposal] Milestone bounty DAC creation.
« on: March 09, 2014, 12:26:24 AM »

The idea is to create a "open bounty" meaning that it is always active even if it has already been awarded as long as  you  complete the requirements of the bounty. You will win it no matter how many winners won before you.

This will  stimulate the DAC creation and has many advantages over a  classical bounty . In order to win the reward you need to complete some milestones, for each milestone completed you'll be rewarded . Total  reward could be 7000 PTS (could be more or less)

Of course in order to be eligible to win any milestone reward, the DAC developers needs to completes all the priors milestones.
Any milestone will be rewarded no matter what as long the requirements are fulfilled.

The first milestone 50 PTS :The DAC creator should detail the idea of the DAC, how it will work and the business model e.g. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=7.0.What is essential here is this : If the idea could be applied to a  DAC, you win the milestone no matter what. So it does not matter if the idea is judged good or bad by the community. The only requirement here will be that it could work as a DAC. This will encourage DAC developers to go into the process without the fear of being rejected by the community.

Milestone two rewards :1000  PTS :   Proof of  code the DAC developers should submit to Invictus some code that shows meaningful advancement in the development of the DAC (there should be clear rules to be defined to quantify  the "meaningful developments" ). This code would be release as open source only after 60 days. This will ensure the DAC developer that no one could steal the code and use it to release the DAC before the original developer. In the same time it will stimulate the DAC developers not to waste  any times and work towards milestone 3 knowing that his code will be released.

Milestone three, four,etc:   2000  PTS  : More proof  of code ..  same  rules as milestone 2 

Final milestone will be the released of a working DAC .

This will be a win-win situation for everybody. For the DAC developer: he'll know 100 % he'll have the funds to build his DAC from the beginning of the development, not at the end like in classic bounties. He'll also know that nobody could stop the development as long as he fulfills all the requirements. He can start anytime so he should not wait for a fix date like for example  the Shark Tank competition.

For the community:  each DAC  must honor the social consensus so reward 10/10 AGS/PTS . Even if the DAC is not completed, each milestone payed rewards the community too, so nothing is lost.

This are just some basic ideas. The rewards or the number of milestones are just examples. It could be more or less.

Offline toast

Re: [Proposal] Milestone bounty DAC creation.
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2014, 12:35:02 AM »
This rewards bad DAC ideas without helping good ones along. A good DAC idea will have no problem securing funding with just a proposal.

I wish we would admit to ourselves that most DAC ideas are bad and should not be supported.

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Offline oco101

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Re: [Proposal] Milestone bounty DAC creation.
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2014, 01:17:28 AM »
This rewards bad DAC ideas without helping good ones along. A good DAC idea will have no problem securing funding with just a proposal.

I wish we would admit to ourselves that most DAC ideas are bad and should not be supported.

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How you would know it is a bad DAC ? To win the first milestone it needs to be a viable DAC on the first place so It will not be a vending machine.
Many ideas that nobody tought  much about them became very popular. Google at the begining was just onother serch engine, Twiter was plein stupid.
If could not be a viable DAC will not pass the first milestone.

Offline toast

Re: [Proposal] Milestone bounty DAC creation.
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2014, 01:22:44 AM »
This rewards bad DAC ideas without helping good ones along. A good DAC idea will have no problem securing funding with just a proposal.

I wish we would admit to ourselves that most DAC ideas are bad and should not be supported.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

How you would know it is a bad DAC ? To win the first milestone it needs to be a viable DAC on the first place so It will not be a vending machine.
Many ideas that nobody tought  much about them became very popular. Google at the begining was just onother serch engine, Twiter was plein stupid.
If could not be a viable DAC will not pass the first milestone.

Google got funding. Twitter got funding.

> If could not be a viable DAC will not pass the first milestone.

By this exact same reasoning you should expect that same DAC to get funding. Your suggestion is just an *easier* way to get money, without anyone having to "bet" on whether the DAC will succeed. Who decides if it passes the milestone? Wouldn't the same people who decide it passes want to invest because they think it will be profitable?

The only people better off are those whose idea can't convince *anyone* that it will be profitable, but can convince the community that it would be unfair not to give them the bounty since "you don't know it won't be profitable!"
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline oco101

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Re: [Proposal] Milestone bounty DAC creation.
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2014, 01:37:52 AM »
This rewards bad DAC ideas without helping good ones along. A good DAC idea will have no problem securing funding with just a proposal.

I wish we would admit to ourselves that most DAC ideas are bad and should not be supported.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

How you would know it is a bad DAC ? To win the first milestone it needs to be a viable DAC on the first place so It will not be a vending machine.
Many ideas that nobody tought  much about them became very popular. Google at the begining was just onother serch engine, Twiter was plein stupid.
If could not be a viable DAC will not pass the first milestone.

Google got funding. Twitter got funding.

> If could not be a viable DAC will not pass the first milestone.

By this exact same reasoning you should expect that same DAC to get funding. Your suggestion is just an *easier* way to get money, without anyone having to "bet" on whether the DAC will succeed. Who decides if it passes the milestone? Wouldn't the same people who decide it passes want to invest because they think it will be profitable?

The only people better off are those whose idea can't convince *anyone* that it will be profitable, but can convince the community that it would be unfair not to give them the bounty since "you don't know it won't be profitable!"
To win the first milestone it means that the DAC it should have a busniess plan that shows that it has the potenital of beeing profitable. We just have to require that the DAC proposed should be a profitable DAC. Profitable and sucessfull are two diffrent thinks. On paper many DAC proposed already could be profitable but we will see if they will be sucesfull. The sucesfull part that's the part that is unknown.

Offline oco101

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Re: [Proposal] Milestone bounty DAC creation.
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2014, 01:59:42 AM »
Quote
Google got funding. Twitter got funding.

Dogecoin ?

bitbro

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Re: [Proposal] Milestone bounty DAC creation.
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2014, 02:13:18 AM »
How about only 0 PTS for each proposed viable DAC, from that point every milestone after would make sense.  There is very real potential to this system


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Offline toast

Re: [Proposal] Milestone bounty DAC creation.
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2014, 02:25:50 AM »
To win the first milestone it means that the DAC it should have a busniess plan that shows that it has the potenital of beeing profitable.

So then it should have no problem getting lots of funding, right?
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Offline oco101

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Re: [Proposal] Milestone bounty DAC creation.
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2014, 02:33:56 AM »
To win the first milestone it means that the DAC it should have a busniess plan that shows that it has the potenital of beeing profitable.

So then it should have no problem getting lots of funding, right?
How ? Shark Tank ? So needs to go to Las Vegas right, and maybe he'll lose. What if he does't have the money to go there ?
Then again how about dogecoin ?

Offline toast

Re: [Proposal] Milestone bounty DAC creation.
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2014, 02:40:13 AM »
To win the first milestone it means that the DAC it should have a busniess plan that shows that it has the potenital of beeing profitable.

So then it should have no problem getting lots of funding, right?
How ? Shark Tank ? So needs to go to Las Vegas right, and maybe he'll lose. What if he does't have the money to go there ?
Then again how about dogecoin ?

No, not shark tank, just post your proposal and a donation address. If someone thinks it will be profitable and that you plan to honor the donations, then they will donate.

Dogecoin is an example of something that became successful without funding, but this is a discussion about the opposite, how to determine if something is successful to decide if it needs funding or not.

Furthermore, Dogecoin's business model is not actually profitable, so by your same criterion it would not have received the bounty.

I mean, you could give examples from all four possibilites (<successful, not> cross <funded, not>). What's your point? We should invest in things we think won't be profitable? Again I am just confused because you are saying we both can and cannot identify what will be profitable.

This topic is discussed at great length in Adam's thread.
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Offline oco101

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Re: [Proposal] Milestone bounty DAC creation.
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2014, 05:13:27 AM »
Quote
No, not shark tank, just post your proposal and a donation address. If someone thinks it will be profitable and that you plan to honor the donations, then they will donate.

Right, so in that case why a DAC developer will come here ? I mean he could go with his idea and pitch it on  bitcointalk and he'll have a much wider audience, so he will have more likely chance to receive more donation there then here.

Quote
Dogecoin is an example of something that became successful without funding, but this is a discussion about the opposite, how to determine if something is successful to decide if it needs funding or not.

My point is  is if they had tried to get funding for their  idea nobody ever  would have put any dime there because nobody could have foreseen the success of Dogecoin. My point is that only by releasing  DAC out there in  to the wild will know if they will be successful or not. 
Like I said what is difficult it is not to see if the DAC has the potential to be profitable that part it easy to quantify look at your own post here : https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3488.msg43785#msg43785 I think we should be able to identify a real DAC for a vending machine, we should not be worry about that.

The bounty is not a proposal to just invest blindly in any idea whiteout any merit .  This DAC idea is so brand new that I'm not sure that anyone could predict how it will pan out. So this bounty will encourage new crazy ideas some will be very attractive  at first glance and some not, but to see witch one will work, the only way to know it is to release it in to the jungle. We don't need all of them to work we need a few but how you propose to find those few if not taking a calculated risk ?

There are many way to know if the idea could be a DAC. Each idea that passe the first milestone should address the DAC requirements. We should make a list with what makes a DAC a DAC. Stan and Bytemaster and others included you tried to address what is a DAC. Let put all that  together and every new idea should comply with that list, if it does then it is a viable DAC and should past the first milestone.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 05:15:54 AM by oco101 »

Offline CLains

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Re: [Proposal] Milestone bounty DAC creation.
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2014, 11:37:34 AM »
Vote for BTS-2 witness: spectral (1.6.30)

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Offline CLains

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Re: [Proposal] Milestone bounty DAC creation.
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2014, 11:38:28 AM »
But seriously, .. who funded Snapchat?

Anyway, .. "Open Bounty" is an interesting concept.
But I think at least the first Milestone is too simple, ..
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