Author [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: BitUSD thought experiment  (Read 1282 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline etherbroker

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
BitUSD thought experiment
« on: March 23, 2014, 05:43:06 PM »

I was thinking about all the shop owners out there that could benefit from accepting bitUSD.  This includes businesses that do not like bitcoin and are skeptical of cryptocurrencies. 

I was thinking we could have an app for these merchants, that has a really simple interface for invoicing and receiving bitUSD, as easy as checking Facebook or whatever.  All they need is to feel safe that the transaction has gone through.

Now here is the twist, We connect this app to a website map, and their bitUSD balance is updated in real-time.  Essentially advertising that they have bitUSD for exchange.

Then internet money enthusiast walks into the store, gives them cash for their bitUSD.

The store owner really just had to install and app and learn how to use it (with a friendly explanation from one of us in the Invictus street team)

The BitUsd will actually enter and exit their registers on autopilot.  Because 1:1 transfer is attractive, their cash registers should clear of any bitUSD everyday.  (It is also efficient, as presumably this shop owner was making a daily trip to the bank anyway).

If they exchange bitUSD 1:1 (which should be encourage or default for "non-crypto" store owners, people that just want to tap bitUSD market, but are not interested in what crypto can do for them).

This could effectively turn every cash register in the USA a gateway to BitX, and also makes all BTS spendable at any business that is doing this program.


The only weak point is that person A might not want to exchange 1:1 when he/she is actually buying something, because bitUSD should probably be worth a little more than USD.

Still person A will still get hungry etc, and still might find buying pizza at 1:1 is still easier/cheaper than some convoluted way of getting a few extra dollars out of a central exchange point, etc...



anyway...  is this a good idea?

Offline gulu

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
    • View Profile
Re: BitUSD thought experiment
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2014, 06:18:54 PM »
I believe there will be a liquid market for BitUSD, if the whole system proves to be working and convinces everybody. So BTX along with other BTAs such as BitUSD will all be outlet for the system. They will be listed on traditional exchanges as well.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
BTC: 1FRsgcQELHKFY2VMFosBnyBaNxZgS4wj7x
PTS: Pf9yDYUknXShepu6YjwSEpMvm1ewNQLNgE
BTSX: gulu

Offline CWEvans

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
    • View Profile
Re: BitUSD thought experiment
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2014, 07:57:19 PM »
The short answer is that nothing technical stops someone from developing such a system.

However, the merchant runs the risk of being declared a money transmitter if the selling of BitUSD to cash buyers becomes regular enough to be declared and exchanger, as defined by FinCEN.

"An exchanger is a person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency..."

http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html

An alternative might be for someone to register in his or her state as a money transmitter and set up a local 'BitPay' for BitUSD.

Your exit strategy would be to build up a big enough book of business to become a takeover target.

Offline luckybit

Re: BitUSD thought experiment
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2014, 08:21:29 PM »
I was thinking about all the shop owners out there that could benefit from accepting bitUSD.  This includes businesses that do not like bitcoin and are skeptical of cryptocurrencies. 

I was thinking we could have an app for these merchants, that has a really simple interface for invoicing and receiving bitUSD, as easy as checking Facebook or whatever.  All they need is to feel safe that the transaction has gone through.

Now here is the twist, We connect this app to a website map, and their bitUSD balance is updated in real-time.  Essentially advertising that they have bitUSD for exchange.

Then internet money enthusiast walks into the store, gives them cash for their bitUSD.

The store owner really just had to install and app and learn how to use it (with a friendly explanation from one of us in the Invictus street team)

The BitUsd will actually enter and exit their registers on autopilot.  Because 1:1 transfer is attractive, their cash registers should clear of any bitUSD everyday.  (It is also efficient, as presumably this shop owner was making a daily trip to the bank anyway).

If they exchange bitUSD 1:1 (which should be encourage or default for "non-crypto" store owners, people that just want to tap bitUSD market, but are not interested in what crypto can do for them).

This could effectively turn every cash register in the USA a gateway to BitX, and also makes all BTS spendable at any business that is doing this program.


The only weak point is that person A might not want to exchange 1:1 when he/she is actually buying something, because bitUSD should probably be worth a little more than USD.

Still person A will still get hungry etc, and still might find buying pizza at 1:1 is still easier/cheaper than some convoluted way of getting a few extra dollars out of a central exchange point, etc...



anyway...  is this a good idea?

We should find a way to crowd fund this app and then distribute shares so the community owns it, unlike with BitPay and Coinvoice. Let the company follow the social consensus from the start.

https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline G1ng3rBr34dM4n

Re: BitUSD thought experiment
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2014, 11:14:51 PM »

We should find a way to crowd fund this app and then distribute shares so the community owns it, unlike with BitPay and Coinvoice. Let the company follow the social consensus from the start.

+1!

Offline etherbroker

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
Re: BitUSD thought experiment
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2014, 03:28:33 AM »
We should find a way to crowd fund this app and then distribute shares so the community owns it, unlike with BitPay and Coinvoice. Let the company follow the social consensus from the start.

I agree LuckyBit.

I have more ideas I want to share with the community as well.

Hopefully people with tech/code skills can combine organically to get some of the better stuff accomplished.

I would be grateful just to be involved.  I think my sales/entrepreneurship background has given me a unique flair for creativity for catering to non-tech "regular" people.

I think the group of people or company that bring crypto to the masses will be the winner in massive increase in market cap.

The key to mass adoption may just be the product/service that is least "scary."  BitUSD (and other assets by region or preference) make sense if you trust the math and the markets, you aren't really required to trust the perceived value like bitcoin adoption requires (and many people find it too repulsive).

A distributed gateway/POS system, while legally nebulous in some jurisdictions, it will be a huge step forward in countries with a large unbanked population.  Many people have access to the internet but no gateway to the internet of money.

I plan to follow up with a more thoughtful description of this plan and some others which may or may not be useful.

I look forward to anyone joining this thread with any way to improve the idea or start implementing it.

Offline donkeypong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2331
    • View Profile
Re: BitUSD thought experiment
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2014, 04:24:36 AM »
The short answer is that nothing technical stops someone from developing such a system.

However, the merchant runs the risk of being declared a money transmitter if the selling of BitUSD to cash buyers becomes regular enough to be declared and exchanger, as defined by FinCEN.

"An exchanger is a person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency..."

http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html

An alternative might be for someone to register in his or her state as a money transmitter and set up a local 'BitPay' for BitUSD.

Your exit strategy would be to build up a big enough book of business to become a takeover target.

I agree with Mr. Evans. Though it is an attractive idea and there may be some way to do it in the future, I think that in the shorter term, this could really endanger Bitshares and Invictus. We cannot run the risk of this whole thing losing its legality by turning the Monopoly money into real currency.

Offline luckybit

Re: BitUSD thought experiment
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2014, 10:15:43 AM »
The short answer is that nothing technical stops someone from developing such a system.

However, the merchant runs the risk of being declared a money transmitter if the selling of BitUSD to cash buyers becomes regular enough to be declared and exchanger, as defined by FinCEN.

"An exchanger is a person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency..."

http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html

An alternative might be for someone to register in his or her state as a money transmitter and set up a local 'BitPay' for BitUSD.

Your exit strategy would be to build up a big enough book of business to become a takeover target.

I agree with Mr. Evans. Though it is an attractive idea and there may be some way to do it in the future, I think that in the shorter term, this could really endanger Bitshares and Invictus. We cannot run the risk of this whole thing losing its legality by turning the Monopoly money into real currency.

The merchant can just get the license. I don't see the big deal.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline davidpbrown

Re: BitUSD thought experiment
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2014, 02:20:13 PM »
The merchant can just get the license. I don't see the big deal.

I'm no expert in FinCen licensing but suspect it can't be simple. The likely requirement for KYC to prevent laundering, would be a stop enough but then the fees and trouble to get a license seem clear:

From Coindesk: http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-law-money-transmission-state-level-us/
Quote
In addition to the disclosure requirements, the financial obligations are substantial. A New York money transmitter must carry at least a $500,000 surety bond, and bonding agents will require a recurring yearly payment of 2-10% of the total bond amount, depending on the personal credit rating of the bond’s guarantor.

An applicant must also satisfy minimum capitalization requirements that push well into the six figures. Add to that the cost of annual reporting, record-keeping, audits and legal fees. It should come as no surprise that (i) the costs of licensure, combined with (ii) the uncertainty of whether licensure is even required in the first instance, drive some businesses to not apply at all.
฿://1CBxm54Ah5hiYxiUtD7JGYRXykT5Z6ZuMc

Offline donkeypong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2331
    • View Profile
Re: BitUSD thought experiment
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2014, 05:20:38 PM »
I'm no expert either, but I believe they would need a money service business license in all jurisdictions in which they operate. So basically, in the U.S., that would be federal plus the fifty states, plus any foreign governments where you want to do business, assuming that they have applicable requirements. It is an extremely expensive proposition.

Offline CWEvans

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
    • View Profile
Re: BitUSD thought experiment
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2014, 06:23:47 PM »
I'm no expert either, but I believe they would need a money service business license in all jurisdictions in which they operate. So basically, in the U.S., that would be federal plus the fifty states, plus any foreign governments where you want to do business, assuming that they have applicable requirements. It is an extremely expensive proposition.

Not necessarily. This could be done locally.

For example, one could get a lot of merchants here in South Florida to accept BitUSD in their shops. The shopping malls here have foreign exchange kiosks, so it's not such a weird idea. Then, one could buy the BitUSD from the merchants at the end of the day, as BitPay does. In this case, the one buying the BitUSD, and not the merchants, would register with FinCEN and the Florida Department of Financial Services (which is relatively easy), et voilà.


Offline donkeypong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2331
    • View Profile
Re: BitUSD thought experiment
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2014, 07:10:13 PM »
Interesting. I still think some larger entity would probably step up and get the licenses eventually. But I love the idea of regional currencies (or one currency to be used locally in certain regions) if that is possible. Local currencies have a long history in the U.S. that is not taught in most textbooks. If this currency is backed by the economy of scale that the larger ecosystem has created, that would make it less volatile and more resilient than otherwise. Might it also be possible to create a truly local currency whose value is fixed to the BitUSD price? For example, 1 South Florida Crocskin= 1 BitUSD, 5 San Francisco Sourdoughs = 1 BitUSD, or 1 Philly Mint = whatever value the market assigns it within a floating range of 1-10 BitUSDs.

Offline luckybit

Re: BitUSD thought experiment
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2014, 07:27:08 PM »
Interesting. I still think some larger entity would probably step up and get the licenses eventually. But I love the idea of regional currencies (or one currency to be used locally in certain regions) if that is possible. Local currencies have a long history in the U.S. that is not taught in most textbooks. If this currency is backed by the economy of scale that the larger ecosystem has created, that would make it less volatile and more resilient than otherwise. Might it also be possible to create a truly local currency whose value is fixed to the BitUSD price? For example, 1 South Florida Crocskin= 1 BitUSD, 5 San Francisco Sourdoughs = 1 BitUSD, or 1 Philly Mint = whatever value the market assigns it within a floating range of 1-10 BitUSDs.

Shouldn't be too hard to make a localized Bitshares chain. Additionally you could do an airdrop tactic and give all the people in the community some free shares in the local chain.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline donkeypong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2331
    • View Profile
Re: BitUSD thought experiment
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2014, 07:33:49 PM »
A real air drop, right? Not an Aurora Borealis...

Offline etherbroker

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
Re: BitUSD thought experiment
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2014, 08:58:30 PM »
So I think I understand that merchants can accept bitAssets, but turning them all into gateways is not a path to go down (yet).

The company that creates this POS app, could also be the finCin registered buyer.

This removes the gateway aspect but actually makes the merchants life easier.

It seems there are a few percentage points to play with here (at first glance we might have a profitable company here and we don't have to be in the trenches trading like bitPay to make money).

 

Google+