Poll

Which Lotto rules do you prefer?

Simple x-from-y lotto
20 (48.8%)
Bonusball lotteries, e.g.  5 numbers drawn from a group of 35 and 2 number from a group of 12
18 (43.9%)
Others, please write them down
3 (7.3%)
classic satoshi dice
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 40

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Offline HackFisher

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Play rules survey
« on: March 25, 2014, 02:58:21 AM »

Option 1: Simple x-from-y lotto
In a simple 6-from-49 lotto, a player chooses six numbers from 1 to 49 (no duplicates are allowed). If all six numbers on the player's ticket match those produced in the official drawing (regardless of the order in which the numbers are drawn), then the player is a jackpot winner. For such a lottery, the chance of being a jackpot winner is 1 in 13,983,816.

Option 2: Bonusball lotteries
In bonusball lotteries where the bonus ball is compulsory, the odds are often even lower. In the Mega Millions multi-state lottery in the United States, 5 numbers are drawn from a group of 75 and 1 number is drawn from a group of 15, and a player must match all 6 balls to win the jackpot prize. The chance of winning the jackpot is 1 in 258,890,850.

Option 3: Others
With ordering, repeating? etc.

This is *not* the final decision, just a survey, any idea is welcome here, so we can start to discuss the interesting aspects of lotto.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 12:37:20 AM by HackFisher »
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Offline jwiz168

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Re: Lotto rules survey
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2014, 05:39:29 AM »
Im so excited to share my number game idea  I hope you guys can help me build a DAC for it. It is a two-ball lotto . We can draw each ball from two sets of balls numbered from 0 to 37.  So basically you have red ball to be drawn first and the blue ball next to have a winning combination. We will have a draw twice daily and prizes  come from betting pot at a given draw slot. Sample scenario is Red Ball draws number 6 and blue ball gets number 18. The winning combination is 6-18 in an exact order as what the Red and Blue balls had.

Offline cgafeng

Re: Lotto rules survey
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2014, 06:45:32 AM »
If all six numbers on the player's ticket match those produced in the official drawing
How the official drawing produce?
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Offline HackFisher

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Re: Lotto rules survey
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2014, 07:46:09 AM »
If all six numbers on the player's ticket match those produced in the official drawing
How the official drawing produce?

It should be a one-way function with parameters of current block's trx_count, block_num, or ticket_amout etc. So users and honest miners could verify that.
something like random_hash(trx_count, block_num, amount)
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Offline santaclause102

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Re: Lotto rules survey
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2014, 09:13:49 AM »
I would find out what analoque system most of the target audience is most used to and take this!

Offline cgafeng

Re: Lotto rules survey
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2014, 09:33:28 AM »
If all six numbers on the player's ticket match those produced in the official drawing
How the official drawing produce?

It should be a one-way function with parameters of current block's trx_count, block_num, or ticket_amout etc. So users and honest miners could verify that.
something like random_hash(trx_count, block_num, amount)

Are miners can manipulate the result?
such as add some transfer or delete some.
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Offline HackFisher

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Re: Lotto rules survey
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2014, 10:23:33 AM »
If all six numbers on the player's ticket match those produced in the official drawing
How the official drawing produce?

It should be a one-way function with parameters of current block's trx_count, block_num, or ticket_amout etc. So users and honest miners could verify that.
something like random_hash(trx_count, block_num, amount)

Are miners can manipulate the result?
such as add some transfer or delete some.

Miners can influence the block data by collision, if collision prove to be a problem, some prove-of-work mechanism can be introduced to against miner's collisions test.

There is another approach, because ticket need to wait several blocks before it's prize is valid, so I'm thinking blocks info after ticket purchased can also be used for random hashing, this increase the difficulty because miners are hard to predict future events.
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Offline CLains

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Re: Lotto rules survey
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2014, 12:52:38 PM »
I'd go for whatever most closely resembles the most lucrative trans-national gambling game balanced by difficulty of implementation.
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Offline JakeThePanda

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Re: Lotto rules survey
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2014, 01:06:55 PM »
I think we should start out with higher probability games with more frequent winners.  The participant pool will be way too small at the start to have national lottery style games.  Publicity is everything. The odds of finding a winner will be too small and people will lose interest If it takes 9 months to find a winner.  Start with daily games and build up to games like Powerball. Just my 2 cents.

« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 01:14:26 PM by JakeThePanda »

Offline CLains

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Re: Lotto rules survey
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2014, 01:09:05 PM »
start out with higher probability games with more frequent winners.

Good point.
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Offline MrJeans

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Re: Lotto rules survey
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2014, 03:00:46 PM »
I think we should start out with higher probability games with more frequent winners.  The participant pool will be way too small at the start to have national lottery style games.  Publicity is everything. The odds of finding a winner will be too small and people will lose interest If it takes 9 months to find a winner.  Start with daily games and build up to games like Powerball. Just my 2 cents.
+5%

my thoughts were that the lotto would work by having lotto tickets (lotto shares) distributed via PoS (like 10% for AGS and 10% for PTS holders). The remaining 90% can be distributed through PoW via mining and winnings.

Randomly every month a percentage of the remaining money supply (say 1%) is given to a public key holding a specific share (determined at random). Partial shares will not count. I see how this part is a little awekward.

Demand will be created for the shares because each represent tickets in the lotto. You will not have to put in your numbers but people would want to hoard and or speculate on the shares. I believe I read the above somewhere on this forum some time ago.

Offline toast

Re: Lotto rules survey
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2014, 03:10:49 PM »
No matter what you do, make sure payouts happen over many blocks instead of all in one transaction! Otherwise you will have huge dumps.

Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline biophil

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Re: Lotto rules survey
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2014, 03:16:26 PM »
No matter what you do, make sure payouts happen over many blocks instead of all in one transaction! Otherwise you will have huge dumps.

Haha, it would create an interesting dynamic if payouts were always lump-sum: someone would win the lottery, dump their shares, the price would crash, and then everybody would have an opportunity to buy cheap shares. It would be like a great big distributed lottery win for everybody. :)

Offline HackFisher

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Re: Lotto rules survey
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2014, 03:58:21 PM »
No matter what you do, make sure payouts happen over many blocks instead of all in one transaction! Otherwise you will have huge dumps.

OK... I agree, I prefer using "nLockTime" from Bitcoin protocal to lock/freeze the payment for several blocks.
Bitshares_toolkit's transaction seems to have a similar field "valid_until", not sure if it is the same with nLockTime.

http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/5783/transactions-with-a-wait-time-using-nlocktime
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 04:02:25 PM by HackFisher »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline toast

Re: Lotto rules survey
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2014, 04:32:06 PM »
Both options just delay the payout, we need to spread it over many blocks. We are able to craft custom transaction validation rules anyway.
Just say that if an output is a "reward" output you can only spend up to N shares per block from it and the rest go into another reward output to the same person.
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