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Offline santaclause102

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20 % for AGS/PTS? Graded alternatives?
« on: March 25, 2014, 09:24:14 PM »

I imagine that people might refuse to honor AGS/PTS if they don't need anything from I3 and the comunity (no funding, no consulting with Dan, ho office space, no marketing/exposure) and just use the open source Tapos code and other Tools.

The AGS/PTS community could fork their appraoches which would be an arguement to honor PTS/AGS. But if a lot of developers take the TaPOS code and fork it the community might have a hard time re-forking all of their specific applications.  Then 20% might feel too much to them...

So what do you think. Would it be a good thing for the long Term value of AGS/PTS if we downgrade the 20% to 10% or 5% or something if they just use the software tools and code?
 

Offline Stan

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Re: 20 % for AGS/PTS? Graded alternatives?
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2014, 09:47:23 PM »
I imagine that people might refuse to honor AGS/PTS if they don't need anything from I3 and the comunity (no funding, no consulting with Dan, ho office space, no marketing/exposure) and just use the open source Tapos code and other Tools.

The AGS/PTS community could fork their appraoches which would be an arguement to honor PTS/AGS. But if a lot of developers take the TaPOS code and fork it the community might have a hard time re-forking all of their specific applications.  Then 20% might feel too much to them...

So what do you think. Would it be a good thing for the long Term value of AGS/PTS if we downgrade the 20% to 10% or 5% or something if they just use the software tools and code?
 

Think of AGS being a targeted marketing email list of all the people in the industry who can prove they are willing to donate to advance the cause.
Now, as a developer you have some promotional shares to give away.  Do you give them to the people on the Proven Donor Mailing List or do you hand them out at random to people who will mostly just dump them for quick cash.

We have to stop thinking of AGS as merely an obligation to be avoided by not using what the donors have built for everybody and instead remind everybody

It's a List of Proven Donors!

People pay good money for a nice targeted mailing list for a prized demographic like AGS holders..

Who else would be better to recruit as supporters?


« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 10:11:27 PM by Stan »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline BldSwtTrs

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Re: 20 % for AGS/PTS? Graded alternatives?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2014, 11:05:47 PM »
I imagine that people might refuse to honor AGS/PTS if they don't need anything from I3 and the comunity (no funding, no consulting with Dan, ho office space, no marketing/exposure) and just use the open source Tapos code and other Tools.

The AGS/PTS community could fork their appraoches which would be an arguement to honor PTS/AGS. But if a lot of developers take the TaPOS code and fork it the community might have a hard time re-forking all of their specific applications.  Then 20% might feel too much to them...

So what do you think. Would it be a good thing for the long Term value of AGS/PTS if we downgrade the 20% to 10% or 5% or something if they just use the software tools and code?
 

Think of AGS being a targeted marketing email list of all the people in the industry who can prove they are willing to donate to advance the cause.
Now, as a developer you have some promotional shares to give away.  Do you give them to the people on the Proven Donor Mailing List or do you hand them out at random to people who will mostly just dump them for quick cash.

We have to stop thinking of AGS as merely an obligation to be avoided by not using what the donors have built for everybody and instead remind everybody

It's a List of Proven Donors!

People pay good money for a nice targeted mailing list for a prized demographic like AGS holders..

Who else would be better to recruit as supporters?
If one of the I3 DAC is a big succes, then AGS owners will be see like "rich guys" by the crypto-community. Give them free shares instead of give theses shares to "poorer people" may end up being a very bad PR move.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 11:08:04 PM by BldSwtTrs »

Offline Stan

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Re: 20 % for AGS/PTS? Graded alternatives?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2014, 11:24:54 PM »
I imagine that people might refuse to honor AGS/PTS if they don't need anything from I3 and the comunity (no funding, no consulting with Dan, ho office space, no marketing/exposure) and just use the open source Tapos code and other Tools.

The AGS/PTS community could fork their appraoches which would be an arguement to honor PTS/AGS. But if a lot of developers take the TaPOS code and fork it the community might have a hard time re-forking all of their specific applications.  Then 20% might feel too much to them...

So what do you think. Would it be a good thing for the long Term value of AGS/PTS if we downgrade the 20% to 10% or 5% or something if they just use the software tools and code?
 

Think of AGS being a targeted marketing email list of all the people in the industry who can prove they are willing to donate to advance the cause.
Now, as a developer you have some promotional shares to give away.  Do you give them to the people on the Proven Donor Mailing List or do you hand them out at random to people who will mostly just dump them for quick cash.

We have to stop thinking of AGS as merely an obligation to be avoided by not using what the donors have built for everybody and instead remind everybody

It's a List of Proven Donors!

People pay good money for a nice targeted mailing list for a prized demographic like AGS holders..

Who else would be better to recruit as supporters?
If one of the I3 DAC is a big succes, then AGS owners will be see like "rich guys" by the crypto-community. Give them free shares instead of give theses shares to "poorer people" may end up being a very bad PR move.

That's where PTS comes in.  It represents a group of people who mined and then held on to the shares to support the industry.  That's why we recommend developers acknowledge both.

Then they can give away the other 80% to whomever else they think will make their DAC the most successful.   :)

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: 20 % for AGS/PTS? Graded alternatives?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2014, 12:15:54 AM »
I imagine that people might refuse to honor AGS/PTS if they don't need anything from I3 and the comunity (no funding, no consulting with Dan, ho office space, no marketing/exposure) and just use the open source Tapos code and other Tools.

The AGS/PTS community could fork their appraoches which would be an arguement to honor PTS/AGS. But if a lot of developers take the TaPOS code and fork it the community might have a hard time re-forking all of their specific applications.  Then 20% might feel too much to them...

So what do you think. Would it be a good thing for the long Term value of AGS/PTS if we downgrade the 20% to 10% or 5% or something if they just use the software tools and code?
 

Think of AGS being a targeted marketing email list of all the people in the industry who can prove they are willing to donate to advance the cause.
Now, as a developer you have some promotional shares to give away.  Do you give them to the people on the Proven Donor Mailing List or do you hand them out at random to people who will mostly just dump them for quick cash.

We have to stop thinking of AGS as merely an obligation to be avoided by not using what the donors have built for everybody and instead remind everybody

It's a List of Proven Donors!

People pay good money for a nice targeted mailing list for a prized demographic like AGS holders..

Who else would be better to recruit as supporters?

You are right. And I agree that what you describe is a benefit to developers. But with a POS "coin" you can action all your shares in an IPO given you the funding you need to promote and develope it. So every share is worth real money. That was different with POW. So as a POS developer you waive the benefit you described for the IPO funding you could have gotten for 20% of your shares. ....therefore my suggestion...

Offline luckybit

Re: 20 % for AGS/PTS? Graded alternatives?
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2014, 05:03:57 AM »
I imagine that people might refuse to honor AGS/PTS if they don't need anything from I3 and the comunity (no funding, no consulting with Dan, ho office space, no marketing/exposure) and just use the open source Tapos code and other Tools.

The AGS/PTS community could fork their appraoches which would be an arguement to honor PTS/AGS. But if a lot of developers take the TaPOS code and fork it the community might have a hard time re-forking all of their specific applications.  Then 20% might feel too much to them...

So what do you think. Would it be a good thing for the long Term value of AGS/PTS if we downgrade the 20% to 10% or 5% or something if they just use the software tools and code?
 

A community fork should be 50/50.
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Offline luckybit

Re: 20 % for AGS/PTS? Graded alternatives?
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2014, 05:08:15 AM »
I imagine that people might refuse to honor AGS/PTS if they don't need anything from I3 and the comunity (no funding, no consulting with Dan, ho office space, no marketing/exposure) and just use the open source Tapos code and other Tools.

The AGS/PTS community could fork their appraoches which would be an arguement to honor PTS/AGS. But if a lot of developers take the TaPOS code and fork it the community might have a hard time re-forking all of their specific applications.  Then 20% might feel too much to them...

So what do you think. Would it be a good thing for the long Term value of AGS/PTS if we downgrade the 20% to 10% or 5% or something if they just use the software tools and code?
 

Think of AGS being a targeted marketing email list of all the people in the industry who can prove they are willing to donate to advance the cause.
Now, as a developer you have some promotional shares to give away.  Do you give them to the people on the Proven Donor Mailing List or do you hand them out at random to people who will mostly just dump them for quick cash.

We have to stop thinking of AGS as merely an obligation to be avoided by not using what the donors have built for everybody and instead remind everybody

It's a List of Proven Donors!

People pay good money for a nice targeted mailing list for a prized demographic like AGS holders..

Who else would be better to recruit as supporters?
If one of the I3 DAC is a big succes, then AGS owners will be see like "rich guys" by the crypto-community. Give them free shares instead of give theses shares to "poorer people" may end up being a very bad PR move.

The rich insiders who helped to invent the industry? The experts who proved the concept, tested the initial DACs and funded everything?

It's no different from any other industry which over time has connected experts. If it's as successful as you say then the people who own AGS will be the venture capitalists.

Like it or not you need that kind of support if you're starting a new business. Giving some initial shares 20% to the VCs who have lots of money is how you can get future money and funding.

You do have a point though, over the long term it could end up a concentrated group of rich guys. At that point though there will be many other communities like this one with their own social contracts.

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Offline adistman

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Re: 20 % for AGS/PTS? Graded alternatives?
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2014, 10:32:03 AM »
I think it is not enough for just 20% for agser/ptser. The more precent the better for bts.
PTS:PgyN7fJ5d9bCkcQLUXxoaQ87KvT9ZQMqus
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Offline santaclause102

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Re: 20 % for AGS/PTS? Graded alternatives?
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2014, 02:54:06 PM »
If it should really be the widely used app store for building DACs it shouldnt cost 20%. This should at least be considered, always with the AGS/PTS value in mind. It's all a different story when the developers get the whole I3 incubation program: Dan special consulting, advertising on bitshares website and through other media channels etc... 

Offline Stan

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Re: 20 % for AGS/PTS? Graded alternatives?
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2014, 03:19:14 PM »
If it should really be the widely used app store for building DACs it shouldnt cost 20%. This should at least be considered, always with the AGS/PTS value in mind. It's all a different story when the developers get the whole I3 incubation program: Dan special consulting, advertising on bitshares website and through other media channels etc...

Once again, the whole premise is wrong.  None of this is seeking the favor of Invictus.  We only own a small percent of AGS and PTS.



Its not about what it should "cost".  It doesn't "cost" anything.

The people in this community that you are sending promotional shares to as a gratuity
for what they have done to promote the industry
will look at whatever "tip" you sent them and conclude whether they like you or not.

You either kept the shares for yourself, or you gave them away to outsiders, or you supported this community.

It's really as simple as that.

 :)
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: 20 % for AGS/PTS? Graded alternatives?
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2014, 04:55:18 PM »
Quote
None of this is seeking the favor of Invictus.  We only own a small percent of AGS and PTS.
Never meant that...
I was just thinking about how to increase the value of PTS/AGS...
I got your point and the advantage that goes with honoring PTS/AGS but it also comes with a cost (less funding/IPO money with a POS coin which TaPOS is). So developers will weigh the ad- and disadvatage of both options...


Offline donkeypong

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Re: 20 % for AGS/PTS? Graded alternatives?
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2014, 06:50:15 AM »
I don't think AGS holders will be demonized just because they are money people. People who were smart enough to get in on the ground floor of other big companies have had stories and movies written about them. They bought into a vision and helped carry it into practice. I don't expect that kind of glorification for AGS, and a little of the opposite sort of attention would be fine if it happens. But without investors and the risks they take to help build something new, we would not have most of the products and services that make up today's economy. And we would see none of the jobs or shareholder opportunities those resulting organizations have created. Capitalism requires investment; it takes money to make money and to execute a vision. There certainly is no shame in helping enable the Bitshares infrastructure, which many of us believe will make the world a better place while continuing to create a broad range of financial opportunities.

Offline unimercio

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Re: 20 % for AGS/PTS? Graded alternatives?
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2014, 06:27:49 PM »
I don't think AGS holders will be demonized just because they are money people. People who were smart enough to get in on the ground floor of other big companies have had stories and movies written about them. They bought into a vision and helped carry it into practice. I don't expect that kind of glorification for AGS, and a little of the opposite sort of attention would be fine if it happens. But without investors and the risks they take to help build something new, we would not have most of the products and services that make up today's economy. And we would see none of the jobs or shareholder opportunities those resulting organizations have created. Capitalism requires investment; it takes money to make money and to execute a vision. There certainly is no shame in helping enable the Bitshares infrastructure, which many of us believe will make the world a better place while continuing to create a broad range of financial opportunities.

Agreed  +5%  There is no shame in supporting a vision, taking risk and then being handsomely rewarded.

If anything we should encourage more AGS investment. As Stan pointed out, the AGS investor is a valuable commodity to any DAC startup. We should attract and then protect these "golden geese"/ "demons".   8)
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