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Offline MrJeans

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Proposal for alternative BTS prototype use
« on: March 29, 2014, 10:49:44 AM »

I like the idea of BTS prototypes, families etc (Stan defined below).

I would like to propose that BTS prototypes be launched as a PoS altcoin honouring PTS/AGS holders. The DACs that then launch will honour via PoS the specific BTS prototype altcoin.

This way investors can speculate/invest in the gambling DAC industry without being forced to invest in bitshares-lotto.
What if the bitsharesLotto DAC is a huge failure but I believe the gambling DAC industry will do very well in the future. I should be able to invest in the industry without being forced to buy into a bad company.

If the BTS-prototypes are launched as DACs they cannot be used to properly evaluate the markets pricing on the future of the gambling DAC industry because the prototype shares price will be skewed by the profitability/success of the particular DAC.

Launching BTS-prototypes will also get tradable value into the hands of PTS/AGS holders. We can then speculate on the industry as a whole without having to worry about a single DAC. If the first DAC (say bitshares-lotto) goes to zero we will still have a viable BTS-prototype with pegs to the value of future gambling DACs.

"A BTS prototype is any crypto-asset that gets some of its value from the fact that its shares represent an interest in one or more future crypto-equity products. They are assets whose value is derived from the market’s anticipated future value of a product line, company or even an industry....So the five proto-families shown in our family tree are just the first prototypes of representative DACs in that family....BTS Prototypes are sample Decentralized Autonomous Companies (DACs)."

Offline Stan

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Re: Proposal for alternative BTS prototype use
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2014, 03:15:25 PM »
I like the idea of BTS prototypes, families etc (Stan defined below).

I would like to propose that BTS prototypes be launched as a PoS altcoin honouring PTS/AGS holders. The DACs that then launch will honour via PoS the specific BTS prototype altcoin.

This way investors can speculate/invest in the gambling DAC industry without being forced to invest in bitshares-lotto.
What if the bitsharesLotto DAC is a huge failure but I believe the gambling DAC industry will do very well in the future. I should be able to invest in the industry without being forced to buy into a bad company.

If the BTS-prototypes are launched as DACs they cannot be used to properly evaluate the markets pricing on the future of the gambling DAC industry because the prototype shares price will be skewed by the profitability/success of the particular DAC.

Launching BTS-prototypes will also get tradable value into the hands of PTS/AGS holders. We can then speculate on the industry as a whole without having to worry about a single DAC. If the first DAC (say bitshares-lotto) goes to zero we will still have a viable BTS-prototype with pegs to the value of future gambling DACs.

"A BTS prototype is any crypto-asset that gets some of its value from the fact that its shares represent an interest in one or more future crypto-equity products. They are assets whose value is derived from the market’s anticipated future value of a product line, company or even an industry....So the five proto-families shown in our family tree are just the first prototypes of representative DACs in that family....BTS Prototypes are sample Decentralized Autonomous Companies (DACs)."

This is very good thinking, worthy of careful consideration.

Should the blockchain from which all DACs in a market sector are spawned try to do anything but act as a proto-coin for trading stakes in all those future blockchains?

Or should it be a proto-DAC which also does something useful that serves as a reference design and adds value to that first proto-coin?

Keeping those roles separate, as you suggest, might make it easier for competitors to honor the proto-coin without honoring the first-mover DAC in that sector.

And it would avoid damaging the utility of the proto-coin if the first DAC instance is a dud.

On the other hand, does that make things too complicated while we are just getting started?
It would double the number of block-chains that need to find places to trade from 5 to 10 in the months ahead.

The immediate implication of your question is, "Should the near-term chain that first makes XTS liquid be retained as a permanent proto-chain with the actual exchange functions derived as one or more new chains forked from it?"

Thoughts?



« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 03:32:22 PM by Stan »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline donkeypong

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Re: Proposal for alternative BTS prototype use
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2014, 03:46:13 PM »
My thought is that we have PTS and that should reflect the overall value. People either understand the potential or we wait for that potential to become realized. The possibility of floating an AGS currency or somehow liquidating that at some point was mentioned elsewhere and might be worth a thought. I hold both PTS and AGS, but am neutral as to whether AGS should be made liquid at some point. That should be a later decision, as it has an important role now to fund the structure and stimulate growth.

While I like the idea of giving people more vehicles to invest and speculate, I think this proposed coin would basically be linked to the success of the main DAC. Just look at PTS price now; people still don't appreciate that there is a ton of amazing stuff coming online soon, aside from Bitshares X. So in the short- to medium- term, I would be reluctant to siphon off potential PTS/AGS investment into another diluting vehicle.

Longer term, when the potential of one or more DACs is realized and there is a big influx of cash? Maybe this idea would be a smart idea to help people capitalize on that and allow people to hedge a little bit. But right now, I don't see it adding value to the Bitshares economy, which it would further dilute.

Offline biophil

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Re: Proposal for alternative BTS prototype use
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2014, 04:15:34 PM »
I like the idea of separating bets on a DAC industry from bets on a particular DAC business. Thanks for this idea, MrJeans.

One of my favorite things about this is that as soon as you have a new DAC family idea, you could announce a snapshot for it, and then the day after the snapshot, PTS/AGS will be liquid in shares of the new family. Also, the new DAC family could potentially have immediate access to AGS-derived shares in that business.

One potential problem is it means there will potentially be an explosion of snapshots as a result. It seems like the snapshot process was a huge source of confusion for investors around Feb 28; maybe people will get used to it and it won't be a problem.

Stan, you mentioned one potential hangup being that we'd have to find places for all these to trade. I seriously doubt that would be a problem - exchanges love being the first one to pick up this or that "coin." Heck, Poloniex listed XCP when it was a brand-new buggy alpha baby. I bet you could get commitments today from Poloniex or Mintpal or one of the other little exchanges to pick up new Bitshares products the day of launch.

Offline MrJeans

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Re: Proposal for alternative BTS prototype use
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2014, 09:34:54 PM »
I was also thinking about the implications of having many snap shots. But this is something people are going to have to get used to. Hopefully there are going to be dozens of snap shots for dozens of individual DACs so having 5 extra at the start for each new industry shouldn't be too much more.

The industry BTS prototypes could act as industry specific speculative currencies (like PTS/AGS).  The protoDAC can be launched soon after this honoring the BTS prototype shares (PoS). The protoDAC can then provide a reference point for others to iterate on. Similar iterative DACs can then honor the BTS prototype shares and not the protoDAC (which may not have worked or may have an altered distribution of its shares due to its business model making it not ideal for speculators to work with). The first protoDAC may not work (so I may not want to own shares in that) but I may have a lot of confidence that when the DAC is improved on in a later version it may be wildly successful (so I will hold onto my BTS prototype shares).

If we have proto-DAC failures we will have to resort to taking new snapshots from AGS/PTS anyway if we don't have a separate BitsharesPrototype share to do so.

In terms of diluting, PTS/AGS will be diluted anyway as we start taking snapshots (for BitsharesXT for example).

As a side note I believe it will be very important to make AGS liquid in the future. Invictus can also increase their AGS funding by declaring that they will make AGS liquid in the future as this may be one of the reasons the price of an AGS is so much lower than the price of a PTS (short term illiquidity may be another reason).
« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 07:00:05 PM by MrJeans »

Offline CLains

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Re: Proposal for alternative BTS prototype use
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2014, 10:06:20 PM »
I think it should be up to each industry-starter what they will do. Bitshares X found need for a Bitshares xTest alpha chain to begin with. Probably all the industries will follow suit and release a stripped down alpha version of their DAC with essential minimal features.
Vote for BTS-2 witness: spectral (1.6.30)

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Proposal for alternative BTS prototype use
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2014, 10:17:00 PM »
And the walls come tumbling down in the city that we love.  But if you close your eyes, how am I going to be an optimist about this - does it feel like nothing changed at all?


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Offline MrJeans

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Re: Proposal for alternative BTS prototype use
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2014, 08:30:19 AM »
And the walls come tumbling down in the city that we love.  But if you close your eyes, how am I going to be an optimist about this - does it feel like nothing changed at all?


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Please elaborate?

 

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