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Offline ruletheworld

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Connecting Keyhotee and Protoshares
« on: November 10, 2013, 09:16:30 PM »

I understand that Protoshares are meant to be a bet on the value of all future DACs created by Invictus. You have a one to one relationship between Protoshares and Bitshares when they are released, but what's the relation between Protoshares and Keyhotee, if any? I might be missing something here, but just wanted to ask and clarify.
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Offline Lighthouse

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Re: Connecting Keyhotee and Protoshares
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2013, 09:46:10 PM »
Keyhotee relies on a blockchain called Nameshares, which will also be forked from Protoshares.  Also Domainshares and whatever else they decide to develop.
Before you say the price of PTS is too high, take a look at theThe Reason.  Protoshares are an entirely new type of Cryptocurrency, one that pays to hold.

Offline ruletheworld

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Re: Connecting Keyhotee and Protoshares
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2013, 10:20:09 PM »
Keyhotee relies on a blockchain called Nameshares, which will also be forked from Protoshares.  Also Domainshares and whatever else they decide to develop.
Ah gotcha. So 1 protoshare will give you 1 nameshare, 1 domainshare, 1 bitshare and anything else that's developed, correct?
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Offline Lighthouse

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Re: Connecting Keyhotee and Protoshares
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2013, 11:22:58 PM »
Yeah, that's the promise.  I really like that for a cryptocurrency, it's like buying futures against a dividend paying stock, except the dividend 1:1 stock an entirely new company
Before you say the price of PTS is too high, take a look at theThe Reason.  Protoshares are an entirely new type of Cryptocurrency, one that pays to hold.

Offline bg002h

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Re: Connecting Keyhotee and Protoshares
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2013, 02:56:28 AM »
Fill in the blank:

1 protoshare = x % of all protoshares ever to be mined (2 million total was it?)
1 bitshare = y% of all bitshares ever to be mined (??)

1 protoshare = z bitshares (1.0 I believe)

x/y

Offline ruletheworld

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Re: Connecting Keyhotee and Protoshares
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2013, 03:15:34 AM »
@Lighthouse, I agree. It's hard to price protoshares like any other altcoin because it is just different. Invictus has exciting things rolling out, not to mention, any of us can always fork protoshares into some other awesome thing, right :)

@bg002h, you're right, there will be 2 million protoshares, 21 million bitshares and the ratio is 1:1
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Offline Stan

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Re: Connecting Keyhotee and Protoshares
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2013, 05:00:43 AM »
Exactly.  Nothing says anyone in the community can't fork off of ProtoShares, BitShares or one of its grandchildren, as appropriate.  We encourage it.  The more DACs from all sources that carry a developer's commitment to honor the ProtoShares social contract, the greater the value ProtoShares will have to those who manage to get some now (and the more launch velocity DAC developers can inherit from this freight train's momentum.)
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline Stan

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Re: Connecting Keyhotee and Protoshares
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2013, 05:28:26 AM »
Fill in the blank:

1 protoshare = x % of all protoshares ever to be mined (2 million total was it?)
1 bitshare = y% of all bitshares ever to be mined (??)

1 protoshare = z bitshares (1.0 I believe)

x/y

In principle, any DAC developer can specify the terms of their social contract wrt to ProtoShares or one of its descendants.  The social contract we published for BitShares is that it would be initialized with one BitShare for every ProtoShare a person owns at the pre-published time of launch.  Its not percent based, its a one-for-one snapshot.  Other DACs from Invictus or other sources may specify different terms and conditions and the market will reward the ones they like.  The more different types of DAC shares that ownership of ProtoShares becomes good for, the more we would expect ProtoShares market value to rise.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline Lighthouse

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Re: Connecting Keyhotee and Protoshares
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2013, 06:26:22 AM »

In principle, any DAC developer can specify the terms of their social contract wrt to ProtoShares or one of its descendants.  The social contract we published for BitShares is that it would be initialized with one BitShare for every ProtoShare a person owns at the pre-published time of launch.  Its not percent based, its a one-for-one snapshot.  Other DACs from Invictus or other sources may specify different terms and conditions and the market will reward the ones they like.  The more different types of DAC shares that ownership of ProtoShares becomes good for, the more we would expect ProtoShares market value to rise.

Does that mean that Domainshares won't be given to holders of Protoshares?  I was under the impression Protoshares would be honored with every invictus blockchain product.  Did I misunderstand?
Before you say the price of PTS is too high, take a look at theThe Reason.  Protoshares are an entirely new type of Cryptocurrency, one that pays to hold.

Offline Stan

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Re: Connecting Keyhotee and Protoshares
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2013, 07:09:13 PM »
ProtoShares is intended to be the granddaddy of all our DACs as far ahead as we can see.  There remain at least two variables:  (a) where in the family tree a new DAC plugs in and (b) the specific Terms and Conditions for mapping shares down the tree.  These may vary from DAC to DAC and developer to developer and will adapt to lessons learned over time.  The tree location must be considered carefully since we want children to predict the market value of their specialty area's Key Ideas.  Thus, other exchange type DACs will naturally be children of BitShares (grandchildren of ProtoShares) but DomainShares will probably plug straight in as a child of ProtoShares.  We are watching market reaction and listening to the forum before we commit to such details for DomainShares.  So far the only thing cast in concrete is our social contract to map ProtoShares to BitShares on a one-to-one share basis when its genesis block is laid down.  Naturally, the sooner we can decide and make a public commitment for other DACs, the better it will be for all investors.  But we need to listen and observe first.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline Lighthouse

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Re: Connecting Keyhotee and Protoshares
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2013, 08:12:18 PM »
I think thats a reasonable position but I don't think that's been clearly articulated in your material.  I had understood it as Protocoin was the point from which all new chains would be forked, but you're saying that Protoshares -> Bitshares but then instead of Protoshares -> New Chain it will be Bitshares ->  New Chain, which means that once Bitshares are issued to protoshares holders the value of protoshares is mostly gone.

How would a non-invictus DAC benefit from protoshares?  Unless they're mining now, they won't have any substantial number so what advantage is there issuing to holders of protoshares besides giving them their new coin for free instantly?  I don't understand the value to a company not already owning lots of Protoshares
Before you say the price of PTS is too high, take a look at theThe Reason.  Protoshares are an entirely new type of Cryptocurrency, one that pays to hold.

Offline Stan

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Re: Connecting Keyhotee and Protoshares
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2013, 09:21:54 PM »
These kind of issues are why we are waiting for forum feedback like yours before committing one way or another. 

Our first newsletter covered this is some detail (see the News tab at invictus-innovations.com).  There we speculated:

Quote
Can you imagine if you had owned ProtoShares for the idea of a web browser? By the time Netscape,
Firefox, Internet Explorer, Safari, and Chrome had been implemented, you would own shares in every
one of them! Who would try to introduce a new browser without honoring the market share of current
browser ProtoShares holders? ProtoShares are like ownership in a patent that never expires – entitling
you to “royalties” in all future implementations of the idea!

The assumption is that subsequent arriving competitors would see several advantages to honoring the protoshares of an existing DAC:

  • It would give the most informed and committed stakeholders an incentive to view their new implementation favorably.
  • It would leverage an already existing community with populated forums, trading mechanisms, and reputations already established.
  • Some DACs may require a critical mass of shares to pre-exist in order to function efficiently or at all.  This is a way to initialize a DACs market with informed owners and an operative money supply.
  • By investing in those ProtoShares before announcing that social contract, they might expect to grow the value of ProtoShares for everybody and hence raise some capital to fund their own development.

Of course, that last bullet factors into their consideration of where to hook on in the family tree.  The higher you hook on the more stakeholders you inherit.  The lower you hook on the more your announcement will influence the value of your acquired stake.  There's also the theoretical possibility of specifying your DAC's social contract to include multiple inheritance.  Think about that one.

Lots to be learned here.  Hoping for new ideas and a robust discussion of their pros and cons.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 09:26:59 PM by Stan »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline ruletheworld

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Re: Connecting Keyhotee and Protoshares
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2013, 02:08:46 AM »
Stan, did you make a decision about how many Nameshares each Protoshare will be eligible for?
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Offline Stan

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Re: Connecting Keyhotee and Protoshares
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2013, 07:06:35 PM »
We need to see some discussion and forum feedback first.

(And we need to get ProtoShares and Keyhotee safely launched into sustained stable autonomous flight.)

Then we will think real hard for several minutes and decide.

 :)
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Offline phoenix

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Re: Connecting Keyhotee and Protoshares
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2013, 11:40:59 PM »
What exactly are the uses for nameshares? Will they be used to increase the rating of your id?
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