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Offline BldSwtTrs

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You should read this
« on: April 10, 2014, 02:00:26 PM »

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563925.0

Basically the idea is to fork Ethereum and distribute it to BTC owners.

This is the same idea why I3 explain 3rd party dev should honor AGS/PTS: to maximize the user base. And if they don't want to, we fork it and do it anyway.

But BTC holders >>>> PTS/AGS holders. So basically I3 will loose that game.

Peter R's idea is genius. That will change the crypto landscape forever. Note that BTSX and any DAC that I3 will produce can be forked and be distributed to BTC holders. If I3 was right about user base = value, then that idea is a game changer for every body.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 05:37:55 PM by BldSwtTrs »

Offline xeroc

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Re: You should read this
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2014, 02:28:30 PM »
That way you cannot fund your development as i3 is doing!
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline Overthetop

Re: You should read this
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2014, 02:45:50 PM »
Open source projects maybe got killed by themselves becuase of unavoidable free forking

Let's think about it!

 :(
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Offline svk

Re: You should read this
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2014, 02:46:51 PM »
It's an interesting idea, I'm actually surprised noone's already done something like this. The idea is basically to treat Bitcoin as Protoshares and then Æthereum really becomes Bitcoin 2.0 with a ready to go userbase.

I find this much more attractive than the current Ethereum distribution plan, and since they're piggy-backing on Ethereum development they won't have that much need for dev funds. The question then becomes: will Ethereum stay open source and allow their hard work to get coopted?

Also surprising to see Vitalik helping explain how to implement the wallet procedure :)


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Offline Empirical1

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Re: You should read this
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2014, 02:52:13 PM »
Seems like a non-idea to me at first glance.

You can already fork all the new source codes (incl. Bitcoin), like NXT and get a share in the fork for nearly free except the way they do it now is better!!

They announce it on the Bitcointalk forum and make a new community who might be interested, active in challenging the original (Eg. NEM) This is far better than randomly airdropping the free clone to all Bitcoin users.

(Even a new source will have attracted investment and a community during it's construction phase so will have an actual marketing & development budget and viral marketers that a fresh clone can't compete with. It can also create add on services & features a clone doesn't have access too.)

The only situation I was worried about was if a vulture had a great marketing team and industry contacts related to the project they can create clones that can challenge the original. (Which is why I highlight marketing in 'things I'm most worried about' ) But just airdropping to existing Bitcoin holders Pfft. (I guess if it did become an issue, the developers the new community trusts, could in the beginning make some stuff closed source till adoption reaches X market size?)

Offline donkeypong

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Re: You should read this
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2014, 02:55:50 PM »
It still depends on mining, right? If so, it's not a sustainable run unless they create incredible value to balance that out.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: You should read this
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2014, 03:00:12 PM »
Quote
The only situation I was worried about was if a vulture had a great marketing team and industry contacts related to the project they can create clones that can challenge the original. (Which is why I highlight marketing in 'things I'm most worried about' ) But just airdropping to existing Bitcoin holders Pfft. (I guess if it did become an issue, the developers the new community trusts, could in the beginning make some stuff closed source till adoption reaches X market size?)
True. Connections plus development and maintenance never ends. If the developers of the new project are not better then it has close to now value.

Offline Stan

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Re: You should read this
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2014, 03:42:01 PM »
It's an interesting idea, I'm actually surprised noone's already done something like this. The idea is basically to treat Bitcoin as Protoshares and then Æthereum really becomes Bitcoin 2.0 with a ready to go userbase.

I find this much more attractive than the current Ethereum distribution plan, and since they're piggy-backing on Ethereum development they won't have that much need for dev funds. The question then becomes: will Ethereum stay open source and allow their hard work to get coopted?

Also surprising to see Vitalik helping explain how to implement the wallet procedure :)

We were wondering when the proto-DAC snapshot concept was going to go mainstream.  Looks like people are beginning to wake up to it.

Here's the real end game in 30 seconds, as recorded after Dan's NYC presentation:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=455106647969436&set=vb.408134445999990&type=2&theater

But you have to consider the whole theory.  Its all about targeting your new shares to the right people.  If you are trying to get attention as a mere currency, then honoring Bitcoin or some weighted average of existing coins, perhaps weighted by market cap, makes perfect sense.

However, if you have a more targeted audience in mind, like people who invest and hold vs. people who quickly dump anything new they get for pizza money, then you might want to choose chains to honor that accurately represent the demographic you want to attract.  Maybe your chief competitors chain?  Maybe the intended customers of your DAC?  Maybe people you hope will invest in your DAC?  Maybe people in the same affinity group (those that like cute dogs), etc.

Wouldn't you really rather attract the attention of those who have proven they are willing to freely donate to advance the industry more than those who happen to be holding BTC on any given day?  Especially if you hope to raise more money from them to develop your idea?

The mix you choose depends on your marketing and business plan and the demographic you wish to attract.

And, as always, having an optimized distribution strategy is only the smaller part of the problem.  Having a profitable business model is what really counts.  Will it be the coin that got the perfect air drop or the coin that pays interest?    Aye, there's the rub!

 :)


Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline Empirical1

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Re: You should read this
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2014, 03:51:11 PM »

The mix you choose depends on your marketing and business plan and the demographic you wish to attract.

And, as always, having an optimized distribution strategy is only the smaller part of the problem.  Having a profitable business model is what really counts.  Will it be the coin that got the perfect air drop or the coin that pays interest?    Aye, there's the rub!

 :)

 +5%

sumantso

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Re: You should read this
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2014, 03:57:51 PM »
But you have to consider the whole theory.  Its all about targeting your new shares to the right people.  If you are trying to get attention as a mere currency, then honoring Bitcoin or some weighted average of existing coins, perhaps weighted by market cap, makes perfect sense.

With the lack of marketing of Bitshares, especially BTCtalk presence (I have been neutral regarding this issue), maybe we are getting a fraction if the 'right' people.

Offline CWEvans

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Re: You should read this
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2014, 06:59:34 PM »
One could distribute just under half of the units to Bitcoin holders and keep 50%+1 for oneself.

 ;)

Offline Stan

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Re: You should read this
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2014, 01:18:46 AM »
It's an interesting idea, I'm actually surprised noone's already done something like this. The idea is basically to treat Bitcoin as Protoshares and then Æthereum really becomes Bitcoin 2.0 with a ready to go userbase.

I find this much more attractive than the current Ethereum distribution plan, and since they're piggy-backing on Ethereum development they won't have that much need for dev funds. The question then becomes: will Ethereum stay open source and allow their hard work to get coopted?

Also surprising to see Vitalik helping explain how to implement the wallet procedure :)

We were wondering when the proto-DAC snapshot concept was going to go mainstream.  Looks like people are beginning to wake up to it.

Here's the real end game in 43 seconds, as recorded after Dan's NYC presentation:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=455106647969436&set=vb.408134445999990&type=2&theater

But you have to consider the whole theory.  Its all about targeting your new shares to the right people.  If you are trying to get attention as a mere currency, then honoring Bitcoin or some weighted average of existing coins, perhaps weighted by market cap, makes perfect sense.

However, if you have a more targeted audience in mind, like people who invest and hold vs. people who quickly dump anything new they get for pizza money, then you might want to choose chains to honor that accurately represent the demographic you want to attract.  Maybe your chief competitors chain?  Maybe the intended customers of your DAC?  Maybe people you hope will invest in your DAC?  Maybe people in the same affinity group (those that like cute dogs), etc.

Wouldn't you really rather attract the attention of those who have proven they are willing to freely donate to advance the industry more than those who happen to be holding BTC on any given day?  Especially if you hope to raise more money from them to develop your idea?

The mix you choose depends on your marketing and business plan and the demographic you wish to attract.

And, as always, having an optimized distribution strategy is only the smaller part of the problem.  Having a profitable business model is what really counts.  Will it be the coin that got the perfect air drop or the coin that pays interest?    Aye, there's the rub!

 :)

One thing this does show is how utterly dead mining is as a share distribution strategy.

What developer in her right mind is going to give her shares away to the big mining cartels so they can sell them into circulation and pocket all profits after draining and burning all the money that interest in the new DAC has generated?  Money that could have funded development.

Now there is a growing number of ways to put those promotional shares into the right hands while reserving some more shares to sell to the very people whose interest you just stimulated. 

The increased efficiency, earning power and promotional control a developer has with this approach is mind boggling.  Who would turn their back on such tools?

Think carefully about which demographic you want to attract.  Who is better for launching a new DAC than highly informed PTS and AGS holders?

Oh, OK, give holders of BTC a cut too - just to get some attention.   But a big cut?  Why? Are there any holders of any other altcoin who don't also own BTC?  If so, reach out to them with a bit or two.

Now, what is the right mix?

 :)
« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 02:05:18 AM by Stan »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline tonyk

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Re: You should read this
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2014, 03:51:18 AM »
I know I will hate myself for posting this but I will do it any way…

I have always known that if I concentrate really hard I will post something (almost) as wise as bytemaster… (So, will Stan)

I have always known that if I open one of Stan’s post I will read something extremely stupid/ bloated /self-righteous  …

I know this is not the most outrages of his posts, but this was the straw that broke the camels back…

SO,

“Yes, Stan your son/boss is genius, repeating/praising him without adding nothing to his thoughts is anything but annoying.”
« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 04:25:24 AM by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline donkeypong

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Re: You should read this
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2014, 03:55:23 AM »
I can honestly say that Stan's postings are what got me hooked on this forum. Full of wisdom and humor. Awesome.

Offline onceuponatime

Re: You should read this
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2014, 04:06:51 AM »
I can honestly say that Stan's postings are what got me hooked on this forum. Full of wisdom and humor. Awesome.

Agreed! +5%

 

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