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Offline CWEvans

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Reaching out to the Left
« on: April 15, 2014, 08:13:10 PM »

Although not explicitly stated, it is pretty clear that the vast majority of those who know what the acronym "DAC" stands for embrace some libertarian variant of anti-authoritarianism. We almost never see anti-authoritarian leftists in our midst.  In this, we are missing out on an incredible opportunity.

http://www.yesmagazine.org/new-economy/bitcoin-for-activists-what-you-need-to-know

Only very rarely might one see a band of Rothbardians or Objectivists willing to stand up for their beliefs in front of a water canon in freezing weather, but hold an IMF or Bilderberg Group meeting, and leftist radicals will show up in large numbers in spite of tear gas, concussion grenades, and dogs.

That's the kind of dedication that we need!

Considering that Bitcoin is associated with money, per se, and leftists typically hold money in disdain, we might get some traction among them with BitShares.

For example, someone could use BTS ME to issue Protest Hours (XPH). The movement organizers could exchange XPH for anything else of value, including BTC, BTS, BitUSD, etc., that rally organizers could use to reward protesters who show up at a rally. After the rally, anyone in possession of a unit of XPH could use it to redeem from the movement organizers some fraction of what the rally organizers paid, or better yet use the XPH as a medium of exchange within the activist community.

If the shares circulated as an intra-community medium of exchange, a would-be radical just getting started would be able to look at the market prices of the different movements' shares and either join one with a high market cap or help out one of the underdogs.

Alternatively, the movement organizers could fund their activities with a Distributed Autonomous Charity.

Either way, rather than compete for attention among existing Bitcoin users, we could recruit within a largely untapped market that includes environmental, food, anti-exploitation and anti-human-trafficking, pro-choice, feminist, LGBT, and peace activists. While one might not agree with their agendas, decentralization does imply diversity of thought, and they do have the numbers on their side.

Offline luckybit

Re: Reaching out to the Left
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2014, 01:07:08 AM »
Although not explicitly stated, it is pretty clear that the vast majority of those who know what the acronym "DAC" stands for embrace some libertarian variant of anti-authoritarianism. We almost never see anti-authoritarian leftists in our midst.  In this, we are missing out on an incredible opportunity.

http://www.yesmagazine.org/new-economy/bitcoin-for-activists-what-you-need-to-know

Only very rarely might one see a band of Rothbardians or Objectivists willing to stand up for their beliefs in front of a water canon in freezing weather, but hold an IMF or Bilderberg Group meeting, and leftist radicals will show up in large numbers in spite of tear gas, concussion grenades, and dogs.

That's the kind of dedication that we need!

Considering that Bitcoin is associated with money, per se, and leftists typically hold money in disdain, we might get some traction among them with BitShares.

For example, someone could use BTS ME to issue Protest Hours (XPH). The movement organizers could exchange XPH for anything else of value, including BTC, BTS, BitUSD, etc., that rally organizers could use to reward protesters who show up at a rally. After the rally, anyone in possession of a unit of XPH could use it to redeem from the movement organizers some fraction of what the rally organizers paid, or better yet use the XPH as a medium of exchange within the activist community.

If the shares circulated as an intra-community medium of exchange, a would-be radical just getting started would be able to look at the market prices of the different movements' shares and either join one with a high market cap or help out one of the underdogs.

Alternatively, the movement organizers could fund their activities with a Distributed Autonomous Charity.

Either way, rather than compete for attention among existing Bitcoin users, we could recruit within a largely untapped market that includes environmental, food, anti-exploitation and anti-human-trafficking, pro-choice, feminist, LGBT, and peace activists. While one might not agree with their agendas, decentralization does imply diversity of thought, and they do have the numbers on their side.

I've already done this. They know about this forum and are registered. Just because there is no obvious left-right that we can see it doesn't mean they aren't here. I think if you want to reach out further you have to avoid the left-right paradigm entirely and focus on what all human beings want.

It's clear on the left and right that we don't want what we currently have and we cannot sustain what we are doing. The differences that divide the two factions of libertarian are trivial in my opinion and I think the vast majority can be convinced to look beyond it if it can be shown that Bitshares is of practical value. If the basic human needs and concerns can be met then only the most hardcore dogmatic political fanatics will cling to their traditional views in spite of practical solutions.

The other way not to scare people away is not to discuss divisive political topics, and to invite everyone to the conferences. That is why I suggested we invite all sorts of people from the decentralization community. Additionally I've brought some to the forum so they have interacted but possibly were scared away by the zeal of Bytemaster (which is a good thing at times but intimidating to people who don't understand the technology to grasp his arguments). Not everyone in the community takes some of the extreme positions as Bytemaster and even among those who do, perhaps would wouldn't use the same words to express it (for example Bytemaster not believing in intellectual property has to be explained to people who don't understand digital technology).

The main argument the left is making is while they are anti authoritarian just as right libertarians, the left embraces socialism, basic income, universal healthcare, the commons, a sharing economy and so on. This is due to the fact that the right (although not too many on this forum) have a blind spot which somehow accepts extreme hierarchy and authoritarianism from private corporations while blaming everything on the government. The left libertarians on the other hand seem to have a blind spot toward the government while blaming everything on large corporations.

Additionally the left for some odd reason seems to promote some of the demurrage, inflation and credit policies which to my understanding would keep everyone economically disadvantaged because no one could save or invest (except the government perhaps?) while at the same time favoring redistribution. A criticism I have of the right is that the right talks about charity, and building community without government, but never actually does it and instead lets large corporations own the fundamental resources for survival (centralization of power). Both perspectives in my opinion lead to ugly dystopian futures.

My view is that large institutions and hierarchy in general cause the problem and it doesn't matter to me if it's a corporate, religious or government hierarchy. The same sort of problems happen when you have corrupt people with too much power at the top. Approach the left by making it obvious that the left-right paradigm is obsolete in the face of technology being developed. The premises that many of the redistribution based solutions were based upon may not be valid anymore, but at the same time those on the right have to concede that it's unacceptable to accept just any form of capitalism because not all lead to a free market and what we have now is the worst of the left and right combined.

Show how this is not a "right wing libertarian" community, but a decentralization community. Decentralization is something the left and right both support. Then leave it up to each community to determine what they do with the source code. Let's refrain from calling anyone left or right, and focus on reaching communities who want to achieve similar ends in the grand scheme because left and right is not helpful for anyone not trying to divide and rule.



« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 01:19:20 AM by luckybit »
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Offline gamey

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Re: Reaching out to the Left
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2014, 01:26:41 AM »

There is actually a good deal of overlap between the Occupy movement and the Tea Party.  This shared sentiment dovetails into themes of decentralization IMO.
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Reaching out to the Left
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2014, 01:33:25 AM »
The left/right divide is a false divide...   

The only divide that matters is freedom / slavery divide.

For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: Reaching out to the Left
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2014, 02:01:27 AM »
What Charles described could be a great application for BTS ME.

With regard to movements and left / right identities, I think the world has seen enough of those identity providing but overall (for society as a whole) dividing movements.

What could make this movement different is: An open minded discussion culture which is uniting in that its members share the high value of the possibility to allow different perspectives to coexist and to inspire each other. Whenever a movement has to fight it needs unity of opinion - and fight mode mostly creates simplistic world views - and unity of appearance towards outsiders which is defeating the purpose from the beginning.

edit: and most importantly religious like left/right division prevents people from looking at the arguments of "the other side" at all or at least in a biased way. 
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 02:51:25 AM by delulo »

Offline Stan

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Re: Reaching out to the Left
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2014, 03:08:40 AM »
Both left and right have
people who want to force their views on others
and
people who just want to be left alone.

:)

Decentralization aims to protect the latter from the former.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline pariah99

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Re: Reaching out to the Left
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2014, 03:29:34 AM »
I wouldn't try to paint cryptocurrency enthusiasts with too broad a stroke.  Admittedly, I only know a few people personally who are even aware of their existence, but it pops up every once in a while and I happily explain to them the advantages of their decentralized structure.  Of the few people who understand or are interested in cryptocurrencies, I think that the common thread is not that they are libertarian; rather, they have some interest/understanding of basic micro/macroeconomic principles.

Spoiler: I am about to graduate with two degree in economics and engineering; whatever else my diploma is worth, at least it lends me some credibility in observing other people's economic acumen.  I'd also consider myself to be pretty damn liberal and/or socialist.  My personal motivation is that I am a techie, and I think that the Federal Reserve has gone completely off the deep end with QE (among other things).

Offline CWEvans

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Re: Reaching out to the Left
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2014, 02:29:52 PM »
Apologies if some of my formulations above come across as irreverant. My OP was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but the underlying sentiment is very serious.

I live in South Florida, which is a patchwork of wealth and poverty that has been described as Brazilianization. I very much am looking forward to introducing BitShares to people who would stand out at a Bitcoin conference like a Klingon at a Star Wars convention.

We have very large communities of Argentines, Brazilians, and Venezuelans here, whose relatives are severely restricted in how much money they are allowed to take out of their countries. 

Also, we have a huge Haitian population. A few months ago, I met with a Haitian activist who runs a shared workspace for entrepreneurs within bicycling distance of the house that Trayvon Martin grew up in. They told me that some Musicians in Haiti have millions of fans, but do not receive enough of the proceeds from their music to afford to visit a hospital, if they are injured. When I learned that BitShares Music is already under development, I felt like a kid on Christmas Eve.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 07:19:11 PM by CWEvans »

Offline donkeypong

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Re: Reaching out to the Left
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2014, 06:44:09 PM »
Not all of us on here are libertarians; I count myself as more of a liberal. Personally, I think Austrian economics in practice would be a disaster. That said, things are obviously out of whack in our society. Libertarians often have the right idea that a simpler way is needed. The biggest problem I see is not the government (though it could use a stiff kick), but the economic inequality that is accelerating as rich become richer, poor become poorer, and the middle class disappears. My interest in Bitshares is that I see the power of a peer-to-peer economy that strips down the waste and greed that are rampant in the private sector, enabling greater opportunities for poor and average people. Yet we must make sure that this system works for them, because so far the peer-to-peer companies seem to work mostly for those who are well-educated and moneyed. I think Bitshares could change that and really spread out a wealth of opportunities for real people in a number of different fields. Hopefully, it will also help us eliminate or downsize some of the wasteful and greedy institutions which profit by exploiting the little guys.

Bitshares: for everyone, not just libertarians!
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 06:51:02 PM by donkeypong »

Offline fuzzy

Re: Reaching out to the Left
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2014, 07:28:46 AM »
The left/right divide is a false divide...   

The only divide that matters is freedom / slavery divide.

Damn...took the words right out of my mouth. 

What we should be doing is building a platform and working together to use that platform to inform people that this technology, coupled with a few other trends in technology should be able to give people of all political persuasions what they need. 

I do not shy away from saying that right now we are looking into a future that could effectively be described as the Second Industrial Revolution.  People might think this sounds crazy right now, but if we can free the markets from manipulation...we effectively destroy the current paradigm's stranglehold on innovation.  We no longer need human slaves...now we can have Android Slaves (lets try not to think of iRobot, yet). 

People I have reached out to recently: 
Chris Duane:  http://www.youtube.com/profile_redirector/102670214221715916560 (please upvote it & write your own!)
Bill Still: [email protected]

Organizations that might be interested:
Electronic Frontier Foundation (bitShares IS the frontier right?)
The Real News Network (a Crowd-funded, Left-leaning News Organization)


P.S.  I will personally tip every single person who swarms them to message me at [email protected].  My hope is that CWEvans will do an Interview with Bill Still, asking questions that the community believes are important (voted on in the Subreddit), and Chris Duane and Bytemaster will chat it up as well...we can record all conversations and post them to the BeyondBitcoin/bitShares Youtube channels.   

« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 07:40:20 AM by fuznuts »
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Offline gamey

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Re: Reaching out to the Left
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2014, 09:22:07 PM »
I found this off google news.  Not really worth its own thread, but fits within this one.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-bollier/post_7339_b_5144053.html


Quote
Commoners are not all alike. They have many profound differences in their governance systems, management practices and cultural values. And commons are not without their conflicts, struggles and failures. That said, most commoners tend to share fundamental commitments to participation, openness, inclusiveness, social equity, ecological respect, and human rights.

It is bascially a book review about the "commons" as a new cultural movement.  Not really tied to any particular political system, but a cultural movement that spans a lot of beliefs.  I couldn't help but think about Bitshares within this context.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 09:48:44 PM by gamey »
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Offline Pimpshares.com

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Re: Reaching out to the Left
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2014, 04:29:10 AM »
I'm all for beautiful women on the left and the right. That'll be me after my IPO on Bitshares Me.

Offline CLains

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Re: Reaching out to the Left
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2014, 03:22:16 PM »
Barriers to entry are still extremely high. To convince "leftists" who are not nerds or investors now, we need to paint a pretty Elsewhere. This elsewhere cannot smell of basement, wires, code and capitalism; it must smell of green grass, flowers, human interaction, community spirit and wonderful achievements.

We cannot be elsewhere now. The only way at present is to color the future to make people see the light. How? With the motto Envisioning the BitShares Ecosystem. For each demographic a different vision will attract. We are large, we contain multitudes. People select their own preferred environment, we just need to arrange the visions in an accessible manner.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 03:24:15 PM by CLains »
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Offline liondani

Re: Reaching out to the Left
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2014, 03:52:23 PM »
Envisioning the BitShares Ecosystem.

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Offline JoeyD

Re: Reaching out to the Left
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2014, 06:59:58 PM »
Actually I think one of the most important points of what bitshares is trying to do and is not emphasized, realized and sold nearly enough: Everyone is free to make their own version of a blockchain-solution with the tools and prototypes being developed here.

I think most assume the goal is to create either a pump-n-dump or another vendor-lock-in monopoly chain to rule them all scheme. Most people also focus on the "premine" aspect without realizing that PoS needs that exact stake(premine) to be present in order to function in the first place. To counterbalance that fear of premines, it should be communicated more clearly that the goal is to create toolkits and prototypes and that everyone is free to compete/collaborate and devise coin-distributions as they see fit. Bitshares should be clearly differentiated from the standard scam-coins, while off course even allowing scam-coins to be built as well if one so desires.

I don't think there is that much opposition to the idea of trying to setup sustainable ecosystems apart from people vested in threatened monopolies. If profitability is a scary word for many people and only appeals to greed how about using the term sustainability instead? Although I must admit I personally think greed(more than the other vices) is the most fundamental human trait making DACs sustainable.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 07:07:41 PM by JoeyD »

 

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