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Offline tipon

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descentralized forum based on blockchains?
« on: April 23, 2014, 12:00:34 AM »

Hi, im new with bitcoin.
I was thinking about the posibilities of using block chains for creating forums withouth centralized power.

Do you know if there is something like this outthere?

The problem i always see with many forums is that a very short group of people called moderators have the power for deleting messages or banning people and this is something very limitating for freedom of speech.
Moderators are always gonna have political ideologies and are gonna limitate points of view that are against their ideology.

In some latinoamerican countries there are laws that can put you in jail if you defend specific ideologies.
So, moderators are gonna delete different points of view,  so they become expression of the centralized power  and its  interests.

How to avoid this? is it possible to have a forum withouth moderators but instead make that the moderators are all the community in the forum?

Which mechanisms can be developed in order make the decisions of the descentralized community to be  "smart" and  to make sure that freedom of speech are not gonna be limitated  but instead critical thinking are gonna be promoted  ????


what do you think?







« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 12:14:54 AM by tipon »

Offline Agent86

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Re: descentralized forum based on blockchains?
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2014, 12:37:44 AM »
You can learn more about bitshare's Keyhotee project can allow communication that is more private and hard to censor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pZaTdEtK-8

Offline bitmeat

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Re: descentralized forum based on blockchains?
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2014, 12:41:38 AM »
Just watched a video from MaidSafe. They also solve the communication in one product. Really exciting stuff.


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Offline tipon

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Re: descentralized forum based on blockchains?
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2014, 01:20:23 AM »
This keyhotee project is very interesting but its insufficient for generating forums without moderators.
We need also a mechanism that would allow to replace the functions that moderators do.

How to create a technological mechanism that would allow the community of participants of the forum to become a new super intelligent entity that perform complex tasks? making obsolete the necessity of moderators?



Offline toast

Re: descentralized forum based on blockchains?
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2014, 01:47:56 AM »
I like what you're getting it... I'm not in the mood to discuss this at length right now but from my perspective the basic "input" mechanisms available to a blockchain are prediction markets and shareholder votes.

I think something like this needs to be a 2d reddit: one metric is *quality* and the other is *agree/disagree*. Have participants *trade towards consensus about quality* and *vote on agree/disagree*.
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Offline gamey

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Re: descentralized forum based on blockchains?
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2014, 01:53:07 AM »
The basic concept would be something like you pay to store data in the blockchain.  I am not sure you actually want a regular forum.  It would really depend on your objectives.  If you want to give people an anonymous platform and make it free, it will surely be filled with those trying to profit. 

 It is an interesting idea though.  Datacoin does this sort of thing.  I'm sure it is implemented elsewhere in some manner.

Putting a nice forum frontend on a blockchain would definitely make for an interesting userbase and could have some great uses.
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Offline yellowecho

Re: descentralized forum based on blockchains?
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2014, 02:45:26 AM »
I like what you're getting it... I'm not in the mood to discuss this at length right now but from my perspective the basic "input" mechanisms available to a blockchain are prediction markets and shareholder votes.

I think something like this needs to be a 2d reddit: one metric is *quality* and the other is *agree/disagree*. Have participants *trade towards consensus about quality* and *vote on agree/disagree*.
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Offline tipon

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Re: descentralized forum based on blockchains?
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2014, 03:49:09 AM »
i think this could led to the creation of a new type of forum with new types of features and possibilities ( i dont know if call it forum, maybe we should look for another name ).

One of the possibilities is creating a new tool for constructing collective knowledge based on consentuated arguments of all participants.
Arguments can be confronted and expanded by discussion in the forum and  by a  mechanism of votes that would allow some arguments to be expanded or to survive.

But the question is :
What should guarantee that the consensuated arguments are "better " arguments or "better" knowledge or true?
A bunch of people votting is sufficient for taking good decisions? or we need another mechanism?


what do you think?

If we find a way of generating good decisions these technology has a lot of potential and can be useful in many escenarios.
Imagine for example creating a constitution in these way, where all the  peoples of a country takes part on the creation of this constitution.

Which mechanism can we add in order to guarantee that the knowledge created at large scale by this technology is good , useful , smart knowledge?








The basic concept would be something like you pay to store data in the blockchain.  I am not sure you actually want a regular forum.  It would really depend on your objectives.  If you want to give people an anonymous platform and make it free, it will surely be filled with those trying to profit. 

 It is an interesting idea though.  Datacoin does this sort of thing.  I'm sure it is implemented elsewhere in some manner.

Putting a nice forum frontend on a blockchain would definitely make for an interesting userbase and could have some great uses.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 03:51:17 AM by tipon »

Offline gamey

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Re: descentralized forum based on blockchains?
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2014, 04:03:46 AM »
It is an interesting thought - making the blockchain a market of ideas, but not in so much a typical prediction model.

You could actually  have a DAC with shares.  People could vote on ideas.  In the end, the person who is willing to put the most crypto-equity would have their version etched into the blockchain.  Not sure how you can use blockchain technology  to arrive at a fairer and more honest consensus without some sort of special trusted system of allotment of the right to vote.

When I was younger there were these books called Choose Your Own Adventure.  Each page had an option.  It might tell you how your car won't start.  Then gives 2 options, Sit in car and wait for help (Go to page 12) Or take off walking (Go to page 16).

I could see a DAC be a twisted sort of literature where the highest bidder gets to add branches to the story, or perhaps contribute the next minichapter.  It would be an interesting experiment for sure.  Unfortunately I can't see a way to monetize this, but at some point when the tools are sufficiently mature a person could probably implement the above in a matter of days.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 04:05:54 AM by gamey »
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Offline tipon

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Re: descentralized forum based on blockchains?
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2014, 04:51:38 AM »
interesting.... Gamey what do you mean with " not in so much a typical prediction model" ?

Other thought:
Maybe the person who put more crypto-equity to insert his idea in the blockchain should win more crypto-equities or recover his inverted crypto equity if the idea he submitted is sucesful. In the other hand if the idea is bad and became dead , then he looses his crypto-equity , this would promote that only good ideas are summited. Only ideas that people really believe are good.

This would be also a mecanism and a tool  for collective innovation.
A tool that would allow new ways of collective innovation.
The tool would promote collective innovation in large groups of people and the resulting ideas or products should be profitable by the people that helped in the innovation or evolution of the idea.
The tool itself should not be monetized but the innovations or bussiness resulting from this tool can be monetized .



The question I have now is  : how to generate better consensus? which mechanism or architecture would allow the best decisions?





It is an interesting thought - making the blockchain a market of ideas, but not in so much a typical prediction model.

You could actually  have a DAC with shares.  People could vote on ideas.  In the end, the person who is willing to put the most crypto-equity would have their version etched into the blockchain.  Not sure how you can use blockchain technology  to arrive at a fairer and more honest consensus without some sort of special trusted system of allotment of the right to vote.

When I was younger there were these books called Choose Your Own Adventure.  Each page had an option.  It might tell you how your car won't start.  Then gives 2 options, Sit in car and wait for help (Go to page 12) Or take off walking (Go to page 16).

I could see a DAC be a twisted sort of literature where the highest bidder gets to add branches to the story, or perhaps contribute the next minichapter.  It would be an interesting experiment for sure.  Unfortunately I can't see a way to monetize this, but at some point when the tools are sufficiently mature a person could probably implement the above in a matter of days.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 04:57:16 AM by tipon »

Offline tipon

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Re: descentralized forum based on blockchains?
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2014, 05:05:15 AM »
what about creating books in this way?


what about rewriting the history of humanity in this way?


what do you think?


 ::)

Offline tipon

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Re: descentralized forum based on blockchains?
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2014, 05:16:46 AM »
hey toast, can you explain how prediction markets mechanisms work?  and how can be useful here?





I like what you're getting it... I'm not in the mood to discuss this at length right now but from my perspective the basic "input" mechanisms available to a blockchain are prediction markets and shareholder votes.

I think something like this needs to be a 2d reddit: one metric is *quality* and the other is *agree/disagree*. Have participants *trade towards consensus about quality* and *vote on agree/disagree*.

Offline gamey

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Re: descentralized forum based on blockchains?
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2014, 05:24:06 AM »
interesting.... Gamey what do you mean with " not in so much a typical prediction model" ?


The question I have now is  : how to generate better consensus? which mechanism or architecture would allow the best decisions?


I meant prediction market, not prediction model.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prediction_market

Prediction markets let you take positions on outcomes of things.  Your version of a 'market of ideas' has people spend money just because they wish their version to be etched into the blockchain.  It is a bit of a weak incentive.  Again, if it is free or people can just create accounts to vote, then the person who is motivated with enough time or money will win. 

I don't think blockchain technologies can help with consensus except to aid in voting.
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Offline tipon

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Re: descentralized forum based on blockchains?
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2014, 05:48:22 AM »
why blockchain technologies cannot help with consensus?  Intelligent consensus you mean?

The blockchain itself is an expression of consensus. Its an expression of the evolution of consensuated ideas.

The thing is: are these consensuated ideas good?  which mechanism should we need to implement in order to guarantee that these structures of ideas being generated in a consensuated way in the block chain are efective ideas?


A lot of ideas come to my mind.
Is consensus about ideas a good way to define the evolution of an idea or creation of an innovation?

Which mechanism do we need in order to make a super intelligent entity from a descentralized collectivity that can create very creative, useful or profitable  innovations?



Other thing:

why do you think its weak incentive?
If a person's idea get etched into the blockchain that person should receive as a prize crypto-equities.
If a person submit a lot of useful ideas that get etched into the blockchain and the resulting company is a sucess then that person is gonna receive more profits based on the amount of crypto-equities ( that in this case would mean more apportation on useful ideas).

So the structure of the system itself reward innovation and reward innovative and creative people, transforming the whole society into a society that promotes innovation and creative thinking and people .

The system will allow also that nobody can cheat you or steal your idea.
People gets rewarded in relation of its creative apportation and everything happens in the block chain that can be seen by everyone so it would mean also a new type of intellectual property system.



Offline gamey

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Re: descentralized forum based on blockchains?
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2014, 06:53:53 AM »
The block chain is a ledger of the consensus over mathematical entities.

You are trying to put a most subjective type of consensus where previously only objective consensus was determined.

 It is a bit of a novel idea I just do not know what it would demonstrate to have your content voted into the block chain.
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