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Offline bytemaster

Rename this section to Decentralized Autonomous Credit Union
« on: April 24, 2014, 04:58:34 AM »

To stick with the DAC paradigm..

thoughts?
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Rename this section to Decentralized Autonomous Credit Union
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2014, 06:12:42 AM »
.. don't like it

I like
  - Decentralized Autonomous Consensus

Taken from https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=4340.msg54805#msg54805:
We should go to "credit union" when explaining it informally but when it's formal we should just replace the C for whatever we want to call it depending on the audience.

1. Corporation
2. Coop
3. Community

But when videos are made explaining how it can benefit the little guy that is when we should talk more about cooperatives, credit unions, community, and social corporation (if we must use the word corporation at all).
I like that idea as is reflects the blockchain being all of the above. Let's please also add the (more technical) term

4. Consensus
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 07:45:37 AM by xeroc »
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Offline bobmaloney

Re: Rename this section to Decentralized Autonomous Credit Union
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2014, 07:16:57 AM »
Well, despite the obvious conflict, it is a Decentralized Autonomous Counterparty...


However, it is also a Decentralized Autonomous Clearinghouse  ;)
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Offline bitcoinba

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Re: Rename this section to Decentralized Autonomous Credit Union
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2014, 12:04:57 PM »
To stick with the DAC paradigm..

thoughts?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_union

I think you are on the right track. This  actually a very interesting way to describe it.

This part is intriguing (from wikipedia):

"Not-for-profit status

In the credit union context, "not-for-profit" is not the same as for a "non-profit" charity or similar organization.[19] Credit unions are "not-for-profit" because their purpose is to serve their members rather than to maximize profits.[20][21][22] But, unlike charities and the like, credit unions do not rely on donations, and are financial institutions that must perforce make what is, in economic terms, a small profit (i.e., in non-profit accounting terms, a "surplus") to remain in existence.[23][24] According to the World Council of Credit Unions (WOCCU), a credit union's revenues (from loans and investments) must exceed its operating expenses and dividends (interest paid on deposits) in order to maintain capital and solvency[25] and "credit unions use excess earnings to offer members more affordable loans, a higher return on savings, lower fees or new products and services".[citation needed] WOCCU's position is deeply rooted in global credit union history. F.W. Raiffeisen, the founder of the global movement, wrote in 1870 that credit unions "are, according to paragraph eleven of the German law of cooperatives, 'merchants' as defined by the common code of commerce. They accordingly form a sort of commercial business enterprise of which the owners are the Credit Unions' members""

Bytemaster, considering the above perspective could you see all DACs then defined as (of course for conversation sake) "not-for-profit"?


Offline itnom

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Re: Rename this section to Decentralized Autonomous Credit Union
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2014, 09:12:49 PM »
tl;dr: BTS is not a Credit Union. I think it deserves a new name/concept all together.

The traditional view of banks ( which cannot explain the current shadow banking system):
A credit Union is still a traditional banking service whereas currency is put into circulation by depositing some collateral with monetary value with the bank. Currency in this model is still viewed as tokens.

The cash flow view of banks ( which is capable of explaining the shadow banking system):
Banks are any entities which take short term low(er) risk assets in (i.e. on the left side of the balance sheet), and lend out long term high(er) risk loans (i.e. on the right side of the balance sheet), be those actual currency as in the case of banks, or higher risk equity or other assets). Because this entity has to be always balanced on its balance sheet, changes in determined risk of assets on any side of the balance sheet mean they have to restructure their positions on different assets all the time.
Interbank loans (which are the backbone of the current fiat system, both in funding and in value transmission) represent the assets of banks. The banks at the top of the pyramid have most interbank loans on the liabilities side lending out to other banks.

From a Systems Theory perspective the asset's or liabiliti's risk is entropy.
The underlying BTS tokens have 0 entropy, meaning the underlying assets of the "BTS decentralized bank" have no risk, hense all hedges created will always be incredibly biased towards the token's value. Unfortunately this means that BTS will never be stable beyond some sort of "vibration point" (token value going up and down, makinh even hedging relatively uncertain). *

BTS does macroeconomically not work this way. It is a very different beast.

The Polymorphic Digital Assets (IMHO the best invention since the blockchain itself), or bitUSD in this case, are the result of a hedging contract. Technically no money is ever lend into existence like in the case of traditional banks.

From one of my Reddit comments:
http://www.reddit.com/r/BitShares/comments/21n4p4/which_decentralized_exchange_will_prevail_in_the/cgflukq
Bitshares is a stroke of genious. They use an OUTSIDE money to price an internal moving hedge, as a result they create "polymorphic digital assets", meaning INSIDE money. I'm not sure whether the core team thought about it in this way but this is essentially what Bitshares is.

This also means that with a bitshares dominated economy any country's central bank's role would be one of a central data feed (base money) rather than transaction settling through ultimate credit facilitation.

This can disrupt the entire banking system. Not because lending itself becomes obsolete but because bitshares will make credit as a part of currency transaction mechanisms obsolete. // No more interbank lending needed to facilitate value transaction.


* Comment: To get less vibration in the system, and therefore considerably higher utility value, you need to have a feedback mechanism for the entropy of the BTS tokens. The default needs to be some entropy, probably equal to the "5%" return (I assume that will be subject to some sort of feedback model too). Token entropy might need to be able to get higher or lower too. Minimum entropy being 0%, highest being enough to increase liquidity between tokens and bitUSD. This could be how 0 fee bitUSD and token transfers could be financed.
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Offline gamey

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Re: Rename this section to Decentralized Autonomous Credit Union
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2014, 09:31:32 PM »

I think what Dan is trying to do is come up with ideas to better convey what Bitshares is.

Being effective at conveying something is not necessarily the same as being the most accurate description.

Accuracy can cause issues in conveying.  (too many details! )

Perhaps "Digital Autonomous Credit Cooperatives".   lol..  just a thought ;)
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Offline sschechter

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Re: Rename this section to Decentralized Autonomous Credit Union
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2014, 09:37:37 PM »
DACU - sounds like a credit union to me  8)
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Offline yellowecho

Re: Rename this section to Decentralized Autonomous Credit Union
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2014, 03:11:30 AM »
tl;dr: BTS is not a Credit Union. I think it deserves a new name/concept all together.

The traditional view of banks ( which cannot explain the current shadow banking system):
A credit Union is still a traditional banking service whereas currency is put into circulation by depositing some collateral with monetary value with the bank. Currency in this model is still viewed as tokens.

The cash flow view of banks ( which is capable of explaining the shadow banking system):
Banks are any entities which take short term low(er) risk assets in (i.e. on the left side of the balance sheet), and lend out long term high(er) risk loans (i.e. on the right side of the balance sheet), be those actual currency as in the case of banks, or higher risk equity or other assets). Because this entity has to be always balanced on its balance sheet, changes in determined risk of assets on any side of the balance sheet mean they have to restructure their positions on different assets all the time.
Interbank loans (which are the backbone of the current fiat system, both in funding and in value transmission) represent the assets of banks. The banks at the top of the pyramid have most interbank loans on the liabilities side lending out to other banks.

From a Systems Theory perspective the asset's or liabiliti's risk is entropy.
The underlying BTS tokens have 0 entropy, meaning the underlying assets of the "BTS decentralized bank" have no risk, hense all hedges created will always be incredibly biased towards the token's value. Unfortunately this means that BTS will never be stable beyond some sort of "vibration point" (token value going up and down, makinh even hedging relatively uncertain). *

BTS does macroeconomically not work this way. It is a very different beast.

The Polymorphic Digital Assets (IMHO the best invention since the blockchain itself), or bitUSD in this case, are the result of a hedging contract. Technically no money is ever lend into existence like in the case of traditional banks.

From one of my Reddit comments:
http://www.reddit.com/r/BitShares/comments/21n4p4/which_decentralized_exchange_will_prevail_in_the/cgflukq
Bitshares is a stroke of genious. They use an OUTSIDE money to price an internal moving hedge, as a result they create "polymorphic digital assets", meaning INSIDE money. I'm not sure whether the core team thought about it in this way but this is essentially what Bitshares is.

This also means that with a bitshares dominated economy any country's central bank's role would be one of a central data feed (base money) rather than transaction settling through ultimate credit facilitation.

This can disrupt the entire banking system. Not because lending itself becomes obsolete but because bitshares will make credit as a part of currency transaction mechanisms obsolete. // No more interbank lending needed to facilitate value transaction.


* Comment: To get less vibration in the system, and therefore considerably higher utility value, you need to have a feedback mechanism for the entropy of the BTS tokens. The default needs to be some entropy, probably equal to the "5%" return (I assume that will be subject to some sort of feedback model too). Token entropy might need to be able to get higher or lower too. Minimum entropy being 0%, highest being enough to increase liquidity between tokens and bitUSD. This could be how 0 fee bitUSD and token transfers could be financed.

 +5% Fantastic post!  You have my delegate vote!
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Offline emailtooaj

Re: Rename this section to Decentralized Autonomous Credit Union
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2014, 03:50:38 PM »
How about "Digitally Auto Cooperation"


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