Author Topic: A Conspiracy Theorist Vindicated:  (Read 13609 times)

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Offline Ander

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Everyone here is crazy Fuzz. That is why it is so much fun. And why at least one of us has to be right on the nose.  ;)

Indeed.  I love you all, even if many of you are crazy. :P
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Offline CLains

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Everyone here is crazy Fuzz. That is why it is so much fun. And why at least one of us has to be right on the nose.  ;)

Offline fuzzy

P.S: It would be nice if zerohedge posts a nice article about bitshares at some point..

Probably coming with the marketing push.  I already see a podcast on the Beyond Bitcoin Soundcloud.

Other than our hangouts--of course :)
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Offline mf-tzo

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P.S: It would be nice if zerohedge posts a nice article about bitshares at some point..

Offline fuzzy

Just wanted to revisit...

Maybe it is good for everyone to read up.  I think soon enough we will have something like free energy...which will take away a great deal of the bluster out of Proof of Work opponents' sails.  If this is the case, then miners will be the new, technocratic arm of the banking cartels...

Can I predict the future...or am I crazy?  Well I suppose we'll just have to see...


The symbology is always present, because they know they have the channels of public discourse and can frame those who call it out as crazy conspiracy theorists... 
Whoever is behind this symbology knows quite well they are putting it out there....and they believe (rightly so) that most of the public are too much of sheep to look at it themselves and make out the patterns.

Sometimes it feels like it would be more worthwhile to join the dark side.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 10:40:20 pm by fuzzy »
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Offline fuzzy

I also wasn't trying to say that money does not corrupt, or that banks would not want to have a stake in the crypto-action as well. But not at the current minuscule market caps, the current evaluation of the entire crypto scene wouldn't cause them to bat an eleyid. The points I was trying to make was that the new systems we are trying to setup, should be resistant to them doing bad things. Disillusioned bankers might actually be a great help in this space, because of their unique insights and expertise.

To me, the fact that I think 20+ central banks have issued warnings over Bitcoin suggests that they are batting an eyelid. Also JPM actually filed for that patent Fuznuts linked to over 170 times, so I'd say they were pretty keen. Goldman has also made a play in the space via Circle I think. I would also contend that the current valuation of crypto has been deliberately limited by central bank & gov intervention. Limited big bank access as well as access to Wall Street $. (See Fidelity + Bitcoin for example.)


Actually the last link illustrates the point I was trying to make and what I fear has become irreversible, the whole thing has gotten completely out of hand. Nobody controls anything anymore, they are just keeping up appearances and all the while the deceptions keep on going and misconduct and problems keep piling up one after the other. I have no trust in banks being able to regulate themselves and I am completely abhorred by the invention of the too-big-to-fail principle. However, I do not see it as the acts of a disciplined, controlled well thought out strategy, such as for example causing disruption along the old-silkroad while maintaining control of the sea-trading-routes (The old England rules the waves strategy). But I look at it as the reaction of a gambling addict trying to hide the fact that he has messed up, while at the same time trying to get more cash to feed his addiction. Junkies won't kick the habit on their own volition, but they never stop talking about how clean they are.

The Bank of England was implicated as being complicit in the LIBOR rigging by a few Bloomberg reports if I recall. I think they've denied it, but that would indicate the central over-arching manipulation you're referring to. Also bear in mind that the Gold Fix has almost certainly been manipulated by the major banks colluding. Deutsche Bank has just finally relinquished their prestigious seat on the Gold Fix in the last week, too bad no-one wants to touch it with a barge pole.

So while there will be a lot of messy, uncoordinated gambling and rigging going on out there, don't forget our current fiat & debt based money system will fail by design (none has lasted more than 50 years) So for all the major banks not to be colluding behind the scenes on the next system would actually be quite irresponsible. Unfortunately their preferred system is even worse for us - as if having national currencies controlled by central banks isn't bad enough - what they're pushing for is a global currency (or basket of currencies) based on SDR's issued by the IMF.

I'll try add some relevant links in a bit  -

Edit: Love Zerohedge...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-15/jpmorgans-bitcoin-alternative-patent-rejected-175-times
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-28/bitcoin-catches-attention-goldman-sachs-and-walmart-and-cisco-goldman-director-joins
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-12/fidelity-bans-ira-bitcoin-investments-days-after-permitting-them
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-29/gold-fix-manipulation-crackdown-deutsche-officially-resigns-london-fix-seat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRswPAz_Rnk  0:20-01:05 (Just Rotschild broadly referring to single currency, but thought I'd add it.)

"None Dare Call it Conspiracy" -- A good read:  http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=none%20dare%20call%20it%20conspiracy&sprefix=none+da%2Caps&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Anone%20dare%20call%20it%20conspiracy

An excerpt from the first chapter:

1. DON'T CONFUSE ME WITH FACTS
     Most of us have had the experience, either as parents or youngsters, of trying to discover
the "hidden picture' within another picture in a children's magazine. Usually you are
shown a landscape with trees, bushes, flowers and other bits of nature. The caption reads
something like this: "Concealed somewhere in this picture is a donkey pulling a cart with
a boy in it. Can you find them?" Try as you might, usually you could not find the hidden
picture until you turned to a page farther back in the magazine which would reveal how
cleverly the artist had hidden it from us. If we study the landscape we realize that the
whole picture was painted in such a way as to conceal the real picture within, and once
we see the "real picture," it stands out like the proverbial painful digit.
     We believe the picture painters of the mass media are artfully creating landscapes for us
which deliberately hide the real picture.  In this book we will show you how to discover the
"hidden picture" in the landscapes presented to us daily through newspapers, radio and
television. Once you can see through the camouflage, you will see the donkey, the cart
and the boy who have been there all along.
     Millions of Americans are concerned and frustrated over mishappenings in our nation.
They feel that something is wrong, drastically wrong, but because of the picture painters
they can't quite put their fingers on it.
     Maybe you are one of those persons. Something is bugging you, but you aren't sure what.
We keep electing new Presidents who seemingly promise faithfully to halt the worldwide
Communist advance, put the blocks to extravagant government spending, douse the
tea of inflation, put the economy on an even keel, reverse the trend which is turning the
country into a moral sewer (http://cdn.24.co.za/files/Cms/General/d/2499/9bec1c2bf59b40f78f124b9ef7fd1e27.jpg), and toss the criminals into the hoosegow where they belong.
Yet despite high hopes and glittering campaign promise these problems continue to
worsen no matter who is in office. Each new administration, whether it be Republican or
Democrat continues the same basic policies of the previous administration which it had
so thoroughly denounced during the election campaign.
It is considered poor form to
mention this, but it is true nonetheless. Is there a plausible reason to explain why this
happens? We are not supposed to think so. We are supposed to think it is all accidental
and coincidental and that therefore there is nothing we can do about it.

     FDR once said "In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was
planned that way." He was in a good position to know.
We believe that many of the
major world events that are shaping our destinies occur because somebody or somebodies
have planned them that way. If we were merely dealing with the law of averages, half of
the events affecting our nation's well-being should be good for America. If we were
dealing with mere incompetence, our leaders should occasionally make a mistake in our
favor. We shall attempt to prove that we are not really dealing with coincidence or
stupidity, but with planning and brilliance.


P.S.  Love zerohedge too ;)...you should also check out a guy named brotherjohnf--Marine, Silver Bug and prior Series-7.  Have reached out to get him onto the Mumble someday for a chat with us. We'll see if that happens...Here is a link to his latest video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGtjzH2wqrY
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 11:19:31 pm by fuznuts »
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Offline Empirical1

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I also wasn't trying to say that money does not corrupt, or that banks would not want to have a stake in the crypto-action as well. But not at the current minuscule market caps, the current evaluation of the entire crypto scene wouldn't cause them to bat an eleyid. The points I was trying to make was that the new systems we are trying to setup, should be resistant to them doing bad things. Disillusioned bankers might actually be a great help in this space, because of their unique insights and expertise.

To me, the fact that I think 20+ central banks have issued warnings over Bitcoin suggests that they are batting an eyelid. Also JPM actually filed for that patent Fuznuts linked to over 170 times, so I'd say they were pretty keen. Goldman has also made a play in the space via Circle I think. I would also contend that the current valuation of crypto has been deliberately limited by central bank & gov intervention. Limited big bank access as well as access to Wall Street $. (See Fidelity + Bitcoin for example.)


Actually the last link illustrates the point I was trying to make and what I fear has become irreversible, the whole thing has gotten completely out of hand. Nobody controls anything anymore, they are just keeping up appearances and all the while the deceptions keep on going and misconduct and problems keep piling up one after the other. I have no trust in banks being able to regulate themselves and I am completely abhorred by the invention of the too-big-to-fail principle. However, I do not see it as the acts of a disciplined, controlled well thought out strategy, such as for example causing disruption along the old-silkroad while maintaining control of the sea-trading-routes (The old England rules the waves strategy). But I look at it as the reaction of a gambling addict trying to hide the fact that he has messed up, while at the same time trying to get more cash to feed his addiction. Junkies won't kick the habit on their own volition, but they never stop talking about how clean they are.

The Bank of England was implicated as being complicit in the LIBOR rigging by a few Bloomberg reports if I recall. I think they've denied it, but that would indicate the central over-arching manipulation you're referring to. Also bear in mind that the Gold Fix has almost certainly been manipulated by the major banks colluding. Deutsche Bank has just finally relinquished their prestigious seat on the Gold Fix in the last week, too bad no-one wants to touch it with a barge pole.

So while there will be a lot of messy, uncoordinated gambling and rigging going on out there, don't forget our current fiat & debt based money system will fail by design (none has lasted more than 50 years) So for all the major banks not to be colluding behind the scenes on the next system would actually be quite irresponsible. Unfortunately their preferred system is even worse for us - as if having national currencies controlled by central banks isn't bad enough - what they're pushing for is a global currency (or basket of currencies) based on SDR's issued by the IMF.

I'll try add some relevant links in a bit  -

Edit: Love Zerohedge...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-15/jpmorgans-bitcoin-alternative-patent-rejected-175-times
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-28/bitcoin-catches-attention-goldman-sachs-and-walmart-and-cisco-goldman-director-joins
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-12/fidelity-bans-ira-bitcoin-investments-days-after-permitting-them
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-29/gold-fix-manipulation-crackdown-deutsche-officially-resigns-london-fix-seat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRswPAz_Rnk  0:20-01:05 (Just Rotschild broadly referring to single currency, but thought I'd add it.)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 08:38:29 pm by Empirical1 »

Offline JoeyD

Actually the last link illustrates the point I was trying to make and what I fear has become irreversible, the whole thing has gotten completely out of hand. Nobody controls anything anymore, they are just keeping up appearances and all the while the deceptions keep on going and misconduct and problems keep piling up one after the other. I have no trust in banks being able to regulate themselves and I am completely abhorred by the invention of the too-big-to-fail principle. However, I do not see it as the acts of a disciplined, controlled well thought out strategy, such as for example causing disruption along the old-silkroad while maintaining control of the sea-trading-routes (The old England rules the waves strategy). But I look at it as the reaction of a gambling addict trying to hide the fact that he has messed up, while at the same time trying to get more cash to feed his addiction. Junkies won't kick the habit on their own volition, but they never stop talking about how clean they are.

I also wasn't trying to say that money does not corrupt, or that banks would not want to have a stake in the crypto-action as well. But not at the current minuscule market caps, the current evaluation of the entire crypto scene wouldn't cause them to bat an eleyid. The points I was trying to make was that the new systems we are trying to setup, should be resistant to them doing bad things. Disillusioned bankers might actually be a great help in this space, because of their unique insights and expertise.

Although I do think you went a bit far with the triangle comparison, I do agree with you that people should pay attention to who is paying the bills and what kind of effect that might have on the choices being made by the development team. I just listened to the LTB-show with Amir Taaki today and in the few moments he got to speak, he said some very interesting things on the subject. Another strange thing that was mentioned during that show in regards to single entities being able to influence centralized dev-teams, was them mentioning that Ethereum was the platinum sponsor of the conference and that they had loads of marketing and goodies, with piles of t-shirts and such. That does make me wonder how truthful their claims are about being entirely self-funded and that they sleep in a single room because they have no more money. Then again I don't know how wealthy the team-members are and how much being a platinum sponsor of a conference would cost, but I did find that a very strange observation in light of the topic of the discussion. I was under the impression that the IPO had not yet begun.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 05:28:28 pm by JoeyD »

Offline fuzzy


I'm not that convinced that banks, certainly not upper management, are very interested in small potatoes like the crypto-currencies at the moment.

They are interested...trust me on that. 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-10/chasing-bitcoin-jpm-preparing-unveil-its-own-electronic-currency

Although most of them will take separate paths to reach the same desired end to help ensure at least one of them accomplishes it--called a multipronged attack.   


I'm also very doubtful about the level of coordination in large companies, my belief is that things get out of hand rather fast and there is no fixing it anymore. Just imagine trying to do something coordinated with a bunch of your relatives to see what I mean, now imagine doing that with a couple of strangers who not only don't care about you, but want you out of their way so they can move up more easily.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/why-is-nobody-freaking-out-about-the-libor-banking-scandal-20120703

Links...always say it best.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 01:08:06 pm by fuznuts »
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Offline JoeyD

I think those are valid points solaaire.

Yeah I've seen my fair share of those students around me as well. And the common line of thought was, that once they've climbed the corporate ladder high enough, they'll change things and make everything better from the inside out, but first you need to be high up and the end justifies the means. Apparently it didn't occur to them that the current higher-ups that they were looking down on, very likely started with the exact same mindset and that it was that mindset that might have made them the way they are today.

I'm not that convinced that banks, certainly not upper management, are very interested in small potatoes like the crypto-currencies at the moment. I'm also very doubtful about the level of coordination in large companies, my belief is that things get out of hand rather fast and there is no fixing it anymore. Just imagine trying to do something coordinated with a bunch of your relatives to see what I mean, now imagine doing that with a couple of strangers who not only don't care about you, but want you out of their way so they can move up more easily.

Your point about creating an us versus them mentality is indeed a dangerous pitfall and we should be very wary of not falling in it.  There is the risk that when you focus on one point of view long enough, that you start to lose sight of the people who are unfamiliar with your concepts. I think that was a very important point of the discussion in the podcast.

There is also the hurdle of DPoS being so brand new that it does not have the trust of a bitcoin-like PoW solution. Also to be honest it is a very experimental new solution, which we cannot say for certain will work without issues. Maybe it's time for a wiki or a comparison list easy enough for a layman to get their heads around. Things like why DPoS does not suffer the same problem as other PoS coins like the nothing-at-stake-issue. And vice-versa why mining is a bad idea and causes centralization and points of failure. I know Dan Larimer mentioned these things in videos, but not everyone is watching all the videos. Clicking a link requires a lot less a "effort" and might make referencing certain points more easy.

There are also things that the Ethereum team/project is doing better than the bitshares project. I'm not a coder so I'm unable to make any judgements by reading their code or their proposed solutions. But I do notice their marketing and community building is on a whole different level compared to bitshares and I don't think it would hurt to figure out why that is. They seem to be getting a lot more attention eventhough for a layman like me they do not appear further on in development. Although I have heard many say the exact opposite and that ethereum is making way more progress than bitshares in a shorter amount of time. If this is a marketing trick or not I'm unable to confirm or dismiss because as I said I can't read code and I don't know anyone who can, so I can't tell how far they've gotten.

EDIT
It seems it was Adam B. Levine who made those criticisms in the last alinea on the bitshares reddit. He seems to be very pissed off for some reason, but other than him mentioning "saying" things and "warning" I can't really follow what he's talking about. I've tried searching his post history on this forum, but I have been unable to find the discussions he's referring to or the point he is trying to make.

Offline solaaire

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Why would Ethereum want to associate themselves with Goldman-Sachs? Well, despite any perceived ethical wrongdoings on their behalf, they've proven themselves resilient in the face of financial adversity. Not defending their actions, but at least in my particular demographic of starry-eyed university students, most would kill to work at a premier investment bank like GS, even if they don't necessarily agree with their actions. Working at a place like GS grants high pay, status, and more than anything, a bargaining chip for jockeying the corporate ladder. If anyone in my class landed a job there, I would gladly congratulate them.

I suspect that there are many fantastic people working for Ethereum, and even more for GS. Not everyone reaches the same conclusions about the world at the same time. Would you really condemn and alienate those who haven't necessarily 'seen the light' yet? Sure seems like it.

Fuznuts, you have made some solid contributions to our community. However, you often raise what I believe to be a false us-vs-them dichotomy (imo) that only truly exists at c-level strategy. If you believe that middle management and lower really give a two schilling shit about a global financial takeover, I think you may be mistaken. Sure, there are definitely some Patrick Bateman's out there, but I'm not entirely convinced that it is fair nor productive to lump all of these cats into a single ominous entity.

TL;DR dont hate the player hate the game

Offline amencon

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People can change so it is not wise to judge someone by their past beliefs.   Just their current beliefs. 




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Unfortunately most people don't change (not that they can't, they just rarely do).  Also you can't ever really know what anyone's current beliefs are.  So what we are left with as the next best way to infer someone's current beliefs is to examine their past actions.

Offline onceuponatime

mental note: never work for a bank if you don't want to be ostracized by crypto community. even if it frees you to work on crypto full-time afterwards.

It's one thing to work for a bank...and quite another to work for criminal enterprises that pose as "banks" because it gets them closest to the centralization of power they need to be above the law.  Goldman Sachs is one of the largest of these institutions and the fact that anyone from GS is a part of Ethereum should call them into question.  The moment these types of questions become unpopular is the moment the rest of society signs onto something that will inevitably become the world from which we currently are trying to evolve.

You sound like such an idiot when you say things like this.

"The United States fought the American Revolution primarily over King George III's Currency act, which forced the colonists to conduct their business only using printed bank notes borrowed from the Bank of England at interest."

All Wars are Banker Wars (documentary)
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/all-wars-are-bankers-wars/

Offline JoeyD

No doubt the current banking system is rotten to the core and Goldman Sachs is the epitome of that rottenness. I also found it very strange why Ethereum would tout connections to Goldman Sachs as part of their marketing campaign. At the very least they didn't hide the connection, but I don't know what they wanted to achieve by doing that. GS is a big no-no in the crypto community in general and I wouldn't exactly call Vitalik a fan when I read some of his articles.

Personally I suspect that quite a few former bank-employees who've gotten sick to their stomachs because of what they've done, might actually be especially interested in projects like these, and could very well be highly motivated, valuable and knowledgeable people with an incomparable personal stake in trying to remedy the encrusted financial systems. Doesn't mean people shouldn't keep their eyes peeled, but the whole point of these decentralized systems is that they are supposed to be resistant even to manipulation by big players like GS.

A few months ago I saw this documentary which wasn't only shocking, but also shows how easily even intelligent people can get sucked into a downward whirlpool where nobody dares to take responsibility and everyone is trying to outcompete the other in a race to Davy Jones' Locker. Sadly though I've not been able to find an online watchable version, but if you ever have a chance, that documentary comes highly recommended.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 07:53:14 pm by JoeyD »

Offline JakeThePanda

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mental note: never work for a bank if you don't want to be ostracized by crypto community. even if it frees you to work on crypto full-time afterwards.

It's one thing to work for a bank...and quite another to work for criminal enterprises that pose as "banks" because it gets them closest to the centralization of power they need to be above the law.  Goldman Sachs is one of the largest of these institutions and the fact that anyone from GS is a part of Ethereum should call them into question.  The moment these types of questions become unpopular is the moment the rest of society signs onto something that will inevitably become the world from which we currently are trying to evolve.

You sound like such an idiot when you say things like this.