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Offline luckybit

AskADoctor.dac (Healthshares)
« on: May 19, 2014, 09:53:13 AM »

The purpose of this DAC is to make a portable app which can run on a cellphone allowing anyone running it to ask verified doctors around the world about health related questions.

Doctors would be incentivized with a healthare payment in exchange for answering questions.

Patients will buy healthshares and then save them for a time when they need a doctors expert advice.

These healthshares should be presold to the market. Airdrop to selected healhcare professionals to get the ball rolling. 50% reserved for for PTS/AGS holders and 30% for presale, 20% for airdrop.


This method can work for the legal industry as well.
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Offline santaclause102

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Re: AskADoctor.dac (Healthshares)
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2014, 12:12:55 PM »
Is a great idea! But it is not a DAC and could be done with any crypto currency that is not associated with the platform....

Offline crazybit

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Re: AskADoctor.dac (Healthshares)
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2014, 03:56:03 PM »
the centerlized "askdoctor" similar website/app has been working very well,it is easy and convenient to use it,and it has been widely accepted by people,i do not see a big incentive to build it as a DAC,we can not decenterlize business only for decenterlization.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 04:02:01 PM by CrazyBit »

Offline luckybit

Re: AskADoctor.dac (Healthshares)
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2014, 04:29:26 PM »
the centerlized "askdoctor" similar website/app has been working very well,it is easy and convenient to use it,and it has been widely accepted by people,i do not see a big incentive to build it as a DAC,we can not decenterlize business only for decenterlization.
We can decentralized the centralized businesses if it's profitable to do so. If it's profitable and would be better off decentralized you've not made a good case for why we should avoid making money by doing it.

I don't think you get it. If it can be profitable and decentralized why would you need a centralized version?

We could make the money that the centralized business currently makes. Doctors could make money in decentralized crypto-currency. Does the current similar websites take Bitcoin? Do we need more centralized websites where users are forced to store their sensitive health information so it can be hacked?

Not only could you make it more private for users, you could make it more flexible for doctors, and remove all the overhead of having to run it in a centralized way. It's a waste of money to run it in a centralized way when you could save that money doing it in a decentralized way.

Over time you could do more than just ask doctors questions, you could be diagnosed, you could get legal services, all sorts of stuff. I say if it's profitable and can be done better decentralized then it's worth doing just because of that.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 04:33:37 PM by luckybit »
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Offline luckybit

Re: AskADoctor.dac (Healthshares)
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2014, 04:49:29 PM »
Is a great idea! But it is not a DAC and could be done with any crypto currency that is not associated with the platform....

Of course it's not a DAC yet, because it hasn't been made yet. Saying it's not a DAC is like saying the only thing which can be a DAC is currency. Just because it's not a DAC yet doesn't mean it wouldn't be better for us if we had such a DAC.

Think of AskADoctor as a decentralized information service which utilizes the free market to produce the highest quality information. The current centralized versions of these ideas, how exactly are doctors paid? Where is your information stored and how easily is it stolen? Who owns the business? How autonomous is it?

My guess is that either doctors aren't being paid at all or they are paid behind the scenes by the users. They probably aren't paid in Bitcoin or any cryptocurrency which means you wont be able to use cryptocurrency to pay them (which reduces your flexibility greatly). The market probably doesn't determine how much doctors get paid so what exactly determines that true value of the information being offered?

And those centralized sites might or might not scale but lets assume they do scale up, then why would we want to not turn it into a DAC so it can scale up in a decentralized fashion?

In a DAC you can for example use market incentives to encourage Doctors to give honest answers to popular questions. You can use a blockchain technology to store reputation and transaction history.

Assume it's 3 years from now and we have decentralized peer to peer healthcare and insurance. Let's also assume we have sensors connected to us now which can monitor our health, we have plenty of information being collected, but we want to ask a question to the blockchain itself and attach a reward for whomever answers it? I think we should be able to do this and I don't think the centralized way has any advantages.

Doctors and patients can set it up on their end to accept questions at a certain price or perhaps even create a market around that. The fact is we need to decentralize it and bring the free market into it. In the long term picture if AI becomes a big thing then perhaps the blockchain itself might be able to diagnose you.

Overall healthcare itself is extremely inefficient and I think stuff like this can make it much more efficient. I also don't see a reason to have a centralized website when we would have DomainShares, MaidSafe, Ethereum and all that.

http://www.qmed.com/news/ibms-watson-could-diagnose-cancer-better-doctors
http://www-03.ibm.com/innovation/ca/en/watson/watson_in_healthcare.shtml
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 04:57:23 PM by luckybit »
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Offline luckybit

Re: AskADoctor.dac (Healthshares)
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2014, 05:02:01 PM »
I admit the AI component may or may not be easy to accomplish. Assume for sake of argument that we can have something like a decentralized Watson attached to a blockchain allowing us to ask both the doctor and the blockchain?

The blockchain could diagnose you if it receives the right information. The doctor can answer your questions if they receive the right information. How much would you be willing to pay for this?

The blockchain never sleeps and is always on. It cannot be shut down. Diagnoses and advice would trend toward the truth. It could be designed so that the more you pay it the more computing resources it will use to diagnose you. Doctors could be paid as well and their opinions can be rated. Prediction market functions could be built into it as well. It could be so private that it wouldn't require you to have anything but a BitID or KeyhoteeID.

Tell me why it couldn't or shouldn't be a DAC.
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Offline donkeypong

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Re: AskADoctor.dac (Healthshares)
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2014, 05:02:57 PM »
Theoretically, you could do this for any professional service: medicine, veterinary medicine, psychology, law, accounting. One trick would be licensing and regulation. In the U.S., these professions largely are regulated at the state level, so someone operating nationally would need a lot of licenses. Better yet, with enough scale, the organization could be big enough to have experts in every populous state and foreign jurisdiction. And why stop with those professions? Astrologers, odds makers, meditation gurus, personal trainers...

Offline luckybit

Re: AskADoctor.dac (Healthshares)
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2014, 05:07:32 PM »
Theoretically, you could do this for any professional service: medicine, veterinary medicine, psychology, law, accounting. One trick would be licensing and regulation. In the U.S., these professions largely are regulated at the state level, so someone operating nationally would need a lot of licenses. Better yet, with enough scale, the organization could be big enough to have experts in every populous state and foreign jurisdiction. And why stop with those professions? Astrologers, odds makers, meditation gurus, personal trainers...

Here we go with the regulation killing innovation. What if this technology could save your life, do you care more about regulation?

You're right we would have a problem with peer to peer health insurance, as well as these decentralized information services. The only question we should be asking is if it's technically possible, because we don't control the government.

Of course you want to make sure every doctor is licensed because bad doctors will give bad advice but I think we will need this service. Does it make sense to go to a doctors office or make a phone call to a doctor or to send our private information to a centralized easily hacked website when we can do it in a better way? Can we use market incentives to optimize for good advice from the general population?

Obama's healthcare.gov was absolutely terrible by design but the government spent a fortune to launch that centralized website which isn't even future proof. The government does not tend to design in a future proof manner. We need to design a better way of doing healthcare which is future proof and figure out how to regulate it technologically so that we don't need to use as much of the old fashioned regulation strategies.

« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 05:11:19 PM by luckybit »
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Offline santaclause102

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Re: AskADoctor.dac (Healthshares)
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2014, 05:09:21 PM »
Quote
Tell me why it couldn't or shouldn't be a DAC.
DAC doesnt just mean internal currency. To me it is required to call it a DAC that the service itself (no only the currency used in the system) depends on a public ledger. You could distribute the data about the docs maidsafestyle across many computers. But I guess that would be limiting to the service and it for sure is complicated. The question is what do you win there? A centralized system is always cheaper and can hand this low costs on to the users...
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 05:11:21 PM by delulo »

Offline luckybit

Re: AskADoctor.dac (Healthshares)
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2014, 05:18:42 PM »
Quote
Tell me why it couldn't or shouldn't be a DAC.
DAC doesnt just mean internal currency. To me it is required to call it a DAC that the service itself (no only the currency used in the system) depends on a public ledger. You could distribute the data about the docs maidsafestyle across many computers. But I guess that would be limiting to the service and it for sure is complicated. The question is what do you win there? A centralized system is always cheaper and can hand this low costs on to the users...

I don't think a centralized system is cheaper at all. And I'm not just talking about having some internal currency with a website. The web app would only be the front end.

At the core you need a public ledger because there should be actual markets and market functions. For example if you take counterparty and how that works you can offer to buy or sell something. What if you want to sell an answer to a question? What if you want to buy an answer to a question? What if you want professionals to bet on whether or not the answer is correct?

When the question is answered then you need a public ledger to track who answered it and how correct they are so that reputations can be built. You also need to keep track of the price of certain information using a sort of bid and ask.

A centralized website definitely wouldn't be cheaper because you cannot scale it in the same way. Assume MaidSafe works and we can have cheap storage and computing resources which can scale? If that is the case why would you run a centralized website which you have to pay or charge customers some sort of subscription fee when you can let it pay for itself?

Some unknowns are whether or not they can really do distributed computation and put something like Watson on top of MaidSafe or on top of some decentralized network. Let's say that becomes possible?

The decentralized version of this business is future proof and if it does become possible then you now have an abundance of computing power to diagnose people with (along with the advice/opinions of doctors). If you're doing it centralized are you saying it makes sense to build the super computer yourself and compute with that? What happens when it's time to upgrade or maintenance costs? Oh and don't forget you have to store patients most private information on some central server which makes absolutely no sense if something like MaidSafe works at all.

Patient information could be secured by the fact that patients are anonymous. Only they would have the private key, only they would control who can access their medical records.

« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 05:26:28 PM by luckybit »
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Offline santaclause102

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Re: AskADoctor.dac (Healthshares)
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2014, 05:39:07 PM »
Quote
Tell me why it couldn't or shouldn't be a DAC.
DAC doesnt just mean internal currency. To me it is required to call it a DAC that the service itself (no only the currency used in the system) depends on a public ledger. You could distribute the data about the docs maidsafestyle across many computers. But I guess that would be limiting to the service and it for sure is complicated. The question is what do you win there? A centralized system is always cheaper and can hand this low costs on to the users...

I don't think a centralized system is cheaper at all. And I'm not just talking about having some internal currency with a website. The web app would only be the front end.

At the core you need a public ledger because there should be actual markets and market functions. For example if you take counterparty and how that works you can offer to buy or sell something. What if you want to sell an answer to a question? What if you want to buy an answer to a question? What if you want professionals to bet on whether or not the answer is correct?

When the question is answered then you need a public ledger to track who answered it and how correct they are so that reputations can be built. You also need to keep track of the price of certain information using a sort of bid and ask.

A centralized website definitely wouldn't be cheaper because you cannot scale it in the same way. Assume MaidSafe works and we can have cheap storage and computing resources which can scale? If that is the case why would you run a centralized website which you have to pay or charge customers some sort of subscription fee when you can let it pay for itself?

Some unknowns are whether or not they can really do distributed computation and put something like Watson on top of MaidSafe or on top of some decentralized network. Let's say that becomes possible?

The decentralized version of this business is future proof and if it does become possible then you now have an abundance of computing power to diagnose people with (along with the advice/opinions of doctors). If you're doing it centralized are you saying it makes sense to build the super computer yourself and compute with that? What happens when it's time to upgrade or maintenance costs? Oh and don't forget you have to store patients most private information on some central server which makes absolutely no sense if something like MaidSafe works at all.

Patient information could be secured by the fact that patients are anonymous. Only they would have the private key, only they would control who can access their medical records.

You have many great ideas! But you can have most (maybe all) of that on a central server: Bid/Ask (like ebay), replier tacking, database (like wikipedia). You can automate everything on one server too. And user side is decentralized anyway already. With a DAC the accounting side of things would be decentralized in addition. Everytime you want to make a tx it costs. Decentralized payments are always more expensive than a similar centralized version. What you get from decentralization is a big degree of trustlessnes but it costs. All bitcoin transactions together (about 400 in 10 Minutes) cost 25 BTC ever 10 minutes (28USD on average for 1 tx). With POS it is significantly lower but more (I dont know how much) than if you change one ledger on one server. I tried to find out about the costs of a DPOS system here... I dont know how low it can get...
 

Offline donkeypong

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Re: AskADoctor.dac (Healthshares)
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2014, 06:03:33 PM »


Here we go with the regulation killing innovation. What if this technology could save your life, do you care more about regulation?



Actually, I suggested a way around it in my earlier response. I agree with you that the health care system is a mess and people deserve better. Maybe this can be part of the solution.

Offline mf-tzo

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Re: AskADoctor.dac (Healthshares)
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2014, 08:45:04 PM »
I like the idea and actually to be applied in all kind of professions not only healthcare somehow...

Quote
What if you want to sell an answer to a question? What if you want to buy an answer to a question? What if you want professionals to bet on whether or not the answer is correct?
[/b]

 +5% to the above but...

I don't think it is very easy though since everyone can search on the net for healthcare advice from doctors and anything basically for free. But even if you can find anything you want for free people still visit their doctor who they know and trust.

Therefore for healthshares or any other proffesionshare to succeed people behind those shares should be well known names and not anyone. And if you find those few strong names and you form the DAC team it is again centralised and no different than just pay them for advice.

Offline gamey

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Re: AskADoctor.dac (Healthshares)
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2014, 10:05:40 PM »
I like the idea and actually to be applied in all kind of professions not only healthcare somehow...

Quote
What if you want to sell an answer to a question? What if you want to buy an answer to a question? What if you want professionals to bet on whether or not the answer is correct?
[/b]

 +5% to the above but...

I don't think it is very easy though since everyone can search on the net for healthcare advice from doctors and anything basically for free. But even if you can find anything you want for free people still visit their doctor who they know and trust.

Therefore for healthshares or any other proffesionshare to succeed people behind those shares should be well known names and not anyone. And if you find those few strong names and you form the DAC team it is again centralised and no different than just pay them for advice.

Yep. Bingo!  If Google does the same job just as well, where is the value ?  Google will answer just about any question with multiple well thought out answers.  The only difference that I can see here is that you'd be assured the answer comes from a doctor.  Doctor's aren't perfect by any stretch.  I suppose you get to interact with a doctor, but most doctors want to give physical examinations.  Otherwise a person would be just as well to sit in front of an expert system and be diagnosed.
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Offline luckybit

Re: AskADoctor.dac (Healthshares)
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2014, 04:22:36 AM »
Quote
Tell me why it couldn't or shouldn't be a DAC.
DAC doesnt just mean internal currency. To me it is required to call it a DAC that the service itself (no only the currency used in the system) depends on a public ledger. You could distribute the data about the docs maidsafestyle across many computers. But I guess that would be limiting to the service and it for sure is complicated. The question is what do you win there? A centralized system is always cheaper and can hand this low costs on to the users...

I don't think a centralized system is cheaper at all. And I'm not just talking about having some internal currency with a website. The web app would only be the front end.

At the core you need a public ledger because there should be actual markets and market functions. For example if you take counterparty and how that works you can offer to buy or sell something. What if you want to sell an answer to a question? What if you want to buy an answer to a question? What if you want professionals to bet on whether or not the answer is correct?

When the question is answered then you need a public ledger to track who answered it and how correct they are so that reputations can be built. You also need to keep track of the price of certain information using a sort of bid and ask.

A centralized website definitely wouldn't be cheaper because you cannot scale it in the same way. Assume MaidSafe works and we can have cheap storage and computing resources which can scale? If that is the case why would you run a centralized website which you have to pay or charge customers some sort of subscription fee when you can let it pay for itself?

Some unknowns are whether or not they can really do distributed computation and put something like Watson on top of MaidSafe or on top of some decentralized network. Let's say that becomes possible?

The decentralized version of this business is future proof and if it does become possible then you now have an abundance of computing power to diagnose people with (along with the advice/opinions of doctors). If you're doing it centralized are you saying it makes sense to build the super computer yourself and compute with that? What happens when it's time to upgrade or maintenance costs? Oh and don't forget you have to store patients most private information on some central server which makes absolutely no sense if something like MaidSafe works at all.

Patient information could be secured by the fact that patients are anonymous. Only they would have the private key, only they would control who can access their medical records.

You have many great ideas! But you can have most (maybe all) of that on a central server: Bid/Ask (like ebay), replier tacking, database (like wikipedia). You can automate everything on one server too. And user side is decentralized anyway already. With a DAC the accounting side of things would be decentralized in addition. Everytime you want to make a tx it costs. Decentralized payments are always more expensive than a similar centralized version. What you get from decentralization is a big degree of trustlessnes but it costs. All bitcoin transactions together (about 400 in 10 Minutes) cost 25 BTC ever 10 minutes (28USD on average for 1 tx). With POS it is significantly lower but more (I dont know how much) than if you change one ledger on one server. I tried to find out about the costs of a DPOS system here... I dont know how low it can get...

You can have the whole web on a central server but why would you think thats better than having it decentralized? I see no advantage to having it on a central server.

You could say Bitcoin wouldn't exist if it were centralized so it had to be decentralized but a lot of centralized companies aren't future proof and can't scale because they are centralized.

For example MaidSafe or Ethereum could be used and that would be decentralized and cheaper while also being future proof. If there is an advance in AI then the combined processing power of thousands of computers can probably take advantage of it at some point.

Storage would also be better off decentralized. Unless you're saying you would want to store the website on a central server but store the user information decentralized but then the website can be taken offline by DDOS. Why not put the decentralized domain name system to use as well?

Quote
Decentralized payments are always more expensive than a similar centralized version.

Where did you pull this from? Paypal, Western Union, Mastercard, Visa, are they all less expensive than Bitcoin? I don't know where you got this idea or if you just made it up.

The argument you're making is that Bitcoin doesn't scale but when did I suggest Bitcoin or Proof of Work? Transaction fees do cost but even if somehow it were to cost more for me to do it decentralized I would rather do it decentralized. Hackers will target health information and other similar documents. We need to store those extremely sensitive documents in the most secure manner possible which means encrypted and decentralized.

Let's assume for sake of argument that DPOS is more expensive for the user? It still depends on how you define expensive. If you value your privacy then it's significantly less expensive.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 04:24:31 AM by luckybit »
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