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Offline legendface66

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A bit of a change . . .
« on: May 20, 2014, 11:25:24 AM »

This project has been steadily evolving as fuz and I have worked on it and it's reached a point where a major shift needs to take place, rather than the incremental ones we've been making.

Things have been quiet for a while because I've been repackaging Beyond Bitcoin into two different podcasts:

Beyond Bitcoin on the LTB Network: this is a new, radio show style podcast.

Beyond Bitcoin: Hangouts : this will be lightly edited releases of the mumble hangouts.

I just can't have the podcast I would like to make and the hangouts published in the same feed without severely compromising one or the other. The mumble hangouts are supposed to be a primary resource. To turn them into a "Marketable" podcast requires too much editing. Joining the LTB Network with a show will bring attention and hopefully more devs to the mumble server.

Tell me what you think of the change, I'd be more verbose but I'm getting a twitch from so much time staring at this screen. Talk to you guys later :-)

Offline santaclause102

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Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2014, 01:52:39 PM »
I like the idea. The goal anyway would be to make this whole bb effort one for all innovative crypto projects.
Branding: BB - a platform for discussion for all innovative crypto 2.0 projects.

What did you mean by "feed"?

I would welcome it though if the mumble sessions and its possibilities for all communities are advertised (via a link and via voice) on the LTB show. Both parts of bb will profit from each other... It could become a big thing this way. There are a lot of shows without focus on real innovation.... And with respect to mumble the physical conference panels are a lot of blabla, low quality and much like advertisement shows... 
« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 04:33:41 PM by delulo »

Offline fuzzy

Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2014, 07:12:50 AM »
It might be about that time for you to step up and be one of the reps to take on conversations with BM.  I know gamey was also interested.
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Offline gamey

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Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2014, 10:38:08 AM »

I was interested, but I can't say I have much interest in working with stuff on LTB network. I was more interested in seeing a 100% independent media source that was not beholden to projects who put ads on the show. I only wished to help to that end. Best of luck. I had little time to offer as it is and have yet to find a way to listen to all the content produced.

I 100% agree that the dev hangouts are a bit too one sided and need to be corrected and reoriented.  I can not blame you legendface for wanting more of a real show if that is your desire. I was hoping for that to be addressed with a change in direction, just not this one. 
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Offline legendface66

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Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2014, 09:47:07 AM »

Hi guys, so, first up, thanks to fuz for the emails!

The podcast is itself an RSS feed of links to audio files. So mixing the content up confuses the issue. Now the two content types are separated - processed content goes to LTB as weekly BB podcast and the primary resourses go to BBH. This includes the hangouts and light edits of interviews.

Second, there is no necessary relationship between LTB and the content on the site - It's just a blog site. BB is perfectly independent. Anything you hear in the podcasts, the authors put there. I'm a big appreciator of them but I agree that there is a gaping hole where technical content could fit.

The only way to get other communities involved - and we need communities, not just speaking devs - is to get involved with them, learn about their projects, answer questions on their boards. If we push our agenda too much we risk alienating folks. The first order of business has to be to make friends and understand the angles. This is community building and we have all the tools, skills and know how we need. The different approaches to answering the 2.0 question are sometimes philosophical and sometimes target market driven but each is experiencing success because it appeals to a value set and view of the future. For this reason they will all continue to experience success - there is simply more than one way to skin the proverbial cat.

that's my bit. I have some editing to do but one final thing we need is a web developer. We need some groovy juice to help with curating what may quickly turn into a large amount of archive content, a separate module for a project news blog on the front page (I can do this actually I guess) and there has to be some cool stuff we're not thinking of that a UX dev could dream up. Stuff to think about anyway while we peruse the WWW of crypto

catchya later guys, keep it cranking

Offline AdamBLevine

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Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2014, 04:41:19 PM »

I was interested, but I can't say I have much interest in working with stuff on LTB network. I was more interested in seeing a 100% independent media source that was not beholden to projects who put ads on the show.

You may not like my perspective on this project but I'd challenge you to support this statement.
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Offline gamey

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Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2014, 07:17:52 PM »

I was interested, but I can't say I have much interest in working with stuff on LTB network. I was more interested in seeing a 100% independent media source that was not beholden to projects who put ads on the show.

You may not like my perspective on this project but I'd challenge you to support this statement.

Why is the name of a Bitshares community decided brand now followed with "on the LTB network".  Why not just keep the original name ?  That right there is enough to support my statement. 

Going beyond that,  we (Bitshares and the larger ecosystem) are a community supporting decentralization.  Centralization breeds corruption at all levels.  Media included.  I have no interest in working on building what I consider a burgeoning centralized media source.  You can claim you have no input currently on his show and I don't even begin to doubt you, but then I still have to ask why is he rebranding his show with your show/network's name?  Even when you claim to have no control over his decisions, that is no guarantee going forward.

Lots of people don't really get centralization as a concept and how it breeds corruption.  I am not casting stones at you Adam, or your network.  It is just the product of my philosophy and thoughts on the matter.
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Offline legendface66

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Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2014, 08:07:25 PM »
I think the idea here Gamey is to contribute to a common resource - the LTB Network. Fans of every show can be exposed to all other content there. I joined so that Listeners of MMM and S&S could be exposed to my work too. Together we bring value to the network and that will reflected in the LTBC token experiment. The LTBN is an experiment in decentralized communities, not centralised ones. Remember also that A)this is opt in, and B) centralisation always refers to either influence or exposure. Neither Adam nor anyone else exerts influence over the content (apart from the request that it be clean) creation is decentralised. And the centralised exposure is a good thing. that's why I chose to opt in.

And while BB germinated here it's stated goal is to be a common ground for all communities. Not just Bitshares. We already know each other - what good would that do?

As for corruption. All primary resources - hangouts, interviews etc are posted on the BBS site. At worst, the podcast on the network is an advertisement for the real meat. Though I'd like to give myself a bit more credit than that :-)

Offline gamey

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Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2014, 08:41:41 PM »
I think the idea here Gamey is to contribute to a common resource - the LTB Network. Fans of every show can be exposed to all other content there. I joined so that Listeners of MMM and S&S could be exposed to my work too. Together we bring value to the network and that will reflected in the LTBC token experiment. The LTBN is an experiment in decentralized communities, not centralised ones. Remember also that A)this is opt in, and B) centralisation always refers to either influence or exposure. Neither Adam nor anyone else exerts influence over the content (apart from the request that it be clean) creation is decentralised. And the centralised exposure is a good thing. that's why I chose to opt in.

The LTB Network has its own thing and own brand and makes a lot of great stuff.  I have nothing against it.  It doesn't follow that I, a fan of decentralization, want to put my effort behind the LTBNetwork.  You start from the assumption that I should.  I start from the assumption that I have no interest.  There is a list of rules etc you have to abide by for their content.  Just not my thing.  Not that I couldn't easily abide by them and not that they don't ask very little of submitted content, I just don't really care.

Competition is healthy.  Beyond wanting more immediate exposure, I am not sure why you rebrand your show to have LTB on it.  Good luck with the tokens and all, I just have no interest. Again, I am no one.  You don't even have the case of a guy "quitting" because of this. I just lost my interest in some aspects before I started.  If my name had not been mentioned publicly in this thread you would have not hear a peep from me and we would have 0 need for this conversation.

Quote
And while BB germinated here it's stated goal is to be a common ground for all communities. Not just Bitshares. We already know each other - what good would that do?

As for corruption. All primary resources - hangouts, interviews etc are posted on the BBS site. At worst, the podcast on the network is an advertisement for the real meat. Though I'd like to give myself a bit more credit than that :-)

I agree joining LTB will give you immediate increase in visibility and therefore listeners.  That is 100% a good thing from your perspective.  I disagree otherwise.  Things happening now do not predict the future.  Corruption creeps in.  I like competition.  That is all.  Competition in the free market is a form of decentralization.  It is all related.
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Offline legendface66

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Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2014, 05:35:56 AM »
Well for the benefit of those who may read this at a later date -  the LTB Network is a publishing platform. It's a great soap box to stand on. And like most good soap boxes, it doesn't do the talking.

Beyond Bitcoin is and always will be by every conceivable definition of the word, Independent.

There.

« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 05:38:49 AM by legendface66 »

Offline fuzzy

Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2014, 06:25:12 AM »
I have kicked it around a good bit and agree a little on both sides to be honest.  Though I will definitely say this is not seeming like it is getting in the way of my efforts to produce content and build relationships with communities so they all have a voice.  With that said, I would love for other people to pick up the content and make it more decentralized and oriented toward specific industries...  and remix content to be a collaborator/competitor to Legend.

@Adam is a businessman--and this was a good business move.  It actually helps Beyond Bitcoin as a brand, too. 

@Legend--I wish we could have had a conversation about it, but in the end nothing matters except you doing what you do and me doing what I do, and trying to build something that others trust is open and honest, and most importantly enables others to build their own stuff without a single "owner".  I agree it takes some of the "innovative" feel out of it to be part of the LTB network in some fashion--I was frustrated when I looked at it from this point of view.  A slight change to my point of view (after MUCH thinking) was that WE NEED REPS from every different network we can get.  Legend has definitely become our first Beyond Bitcoin LTB Rep/Host.

@Gamey--it will be great when new people come online and create their own meetup-styled from content anyone can record during events in the Beyond Bitcoin Mumble Server (or some other means).  I urge you to do the same man...really...even if it is in disagreement with what is going on.  I will provide you the most I can to help.

So @Legend, please do not think I am trying to dodge you or neglecting your concerns (they exist).  Just as you have your BeyondBitcoin.fm site, I secured the BeyondBitcoinShow.com site, and we can cross link from each site, which = net gain for all involved.  BeyondBitcoin.org is a domain owned by Invictus...so someday they could hold their Beyond Bitcoin Conventions using Mumble and a mixture of other technologies (like google hangouts)
This stuff all came on me pretty quickly, and without being included by Adam (not that I needed to be included, but it would have been a courtesy I think) and wouldn't have been anxiety-inducing with regard to perceived motives.  I had a LOT of thinking to do and had no clue what the motivation was for all of it (and still didn't get to read the conversation that brought us to this point).  It would have been nice to see it, but then again it is none of my business if others feel they want to exclude me from the parley...I only do this free of charge, though, so it would definitely have felt good to have a conversation as opposed to being told what was going to happen. 

As for access to the Beyond Bitcoin accounts currently tied to the gmail account--I do not (yet) feel comfortable giving full access (on par with ownership) to anyone.  Though if anyone were in a better position to earn that trust over time, it very well might be you.  I mean you are a founding member of this.  Just please do not forget that a good bit of work has gone into this already--you are working hard and producing good solid content, but my job is to make it possible for more people who want to do the same --and keep you on your toes.  As such I do not want to enable anyone to have full access to these things (except, perhaps, a future DAC...), I am simply a steward until it gets to that point. 

With that said, there is nothing (absolutely nothing) stopping you from getting a twitter account set up (hell, i'd even do it for you) in addition to a Beyond Bitcoin G+ and twitter account.  We will eventually have widgets on the site to enable quick posting to the internet directly from the content--so this will make it easier for all of us to make something "viral" under the Beyond Bitcoin Umbrella using multiple media accounts.  LetsTalkBitcoin already has some of those widgets!
Having different content creators, mixers, editors...etc with Beyond Bitcoin Show accounts also helps ensure malevolent actors will not go out and make alternate accounts to slander the name. 
There are many ways this can be done and we can even set something up with a standard naming convention, if necessary, so individuals from different communities can be easily found and contacted in a more personalized fashion and their social media accounts are shown to represent a Beyond Bitcoin REPS point of view as opposed to the Beyond Bitcoin community--Adam has already figured this out.  Social Media can empower us with numbers to build something really cool...then both you and I can go to both BeyondBitcoin.fm, BeyondBitcoinShow.com, and LetsTalkBitcoin.com to tweet and comment on content. Cross link and help each other build relationships in the industry that enable us to enrich the community with a deeper understanding of the technologies and their Potential. 

So with that said, I am keeping the email--you could easily make a [email protected] account.  I already tried to but cant make it for you without your mobile phone number...if you want to volunteer that mobile phone number please let me know and I'll send you an already-put together email addy.  I will gladly help you create new twitter and social media accounts if you so choose and ask nothing in return but your understanding that there was a better way to do this--and it would have set me into less of a tailspin of "wtf is going on?", while enabling me to feel like my work has been appreciated.  The words "squatting" were used...I don't know that was fair, but there is still a great deal of talking and planning that needs done.


Well this was a nice Storming Stage. 



Looking forward to when the forming and norming have occurred on this particular front. 



 

« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 06:47:35 AM by fuznuts »
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Offline gamey

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Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2014, 07:47:14 AM »
Legendface -

This is a big mess.  TBH I wasn't even aware of what all you had done.  I just showed up to listen to some of the dev hangouts as they were recorded.  It seemed like you guys had nothing behind you, so I was offering what would be the equivalent of free consulting. A webmaster I do not wish to be, but I just think you could leverage a Drupal distribution and have an nice modern looking turnkey website made for your needs.  No one saw the renaming/rebranding with LTB coming except you. I would have expected a bit of discussion with Fuznuts at least beforehand. That didn't happen, direction changed, so I changed my mind before I even got started. Adam then comes in here and challenges me on my basic belief and it ends up hurting feelings all over the place.  I didn't really feel a need to expound on my change in heart, but Adam requested it from me.

If I had known it was going in the LTB direction and not what I consider "independent" (such a loaded word)  I would have never brought anything up.  It just changes the dynamic and TBH I have other things I would rather do.  I can still tell you what you might wish to try.  If you can setup Joomla from a default installation then you could do what I was suggesting.  Just have to learn a new CMS.  I might even change my mind down the road when I feel like I wish to commit to the project.  I love underdogs, have a huge spot in my heart for them.  Now when you're name has the LTB network on the end it just doesn't have the same appeal. There is nothing personal here. I wasn't even aware of all your contributions recently.  I was just attending some of the dev hangouts in the background and got pulled into suggesting things.

  I was hoping to talk to you in some manner before all this, but it just changed things for now.  Really, best of luck to you. I might very well work with you in some manner going forward. I feel like when Adam came in here, he forced me to take a stronger stance than is probably actually how I feel.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 09:15:58 AM by gamey »
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Offline AdamBLevine

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Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2014, 01:24:05 PM »
lol.   Did you really say i'm a "businessman"?  You guys are hilarious.   

Whatever you need to say to make yourselves feel better!

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Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2014, 01:39:06 PM »

lol.   Did you really say i'm a "businessman"?  You guys are hilarious.   

Whatever you need to say to make yourselves feel better!

Analysis: with that response, you are also saying something to make yourself feel better.

Conclusion: ABL is neither an accurate introspective nor a valid conscientious person



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Offline AdamBLevine

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Re: A bit of a change . . .
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2014, 01:42:05 PM »
Lets just remembers what happening here - I invited the Beyond Bitcoin show onto the LTB platform, and this is the response I get :)
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