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Offline toast

Honoring AGS
« on: May 23, 2014, 02:26:25 PM »

Very cool! Good job. Thoughts:

1) Non-proportional awards for DOGE and BTC... Dogecoin's about to get dusted!
2) Secure distributed RNG, I'm pretty sure Denny's DPOS approach solves that. Any plans to play nice regarding possible name collisions? I'm sure you would not appreciate it if he called his "LottoShares 2.0"
3) Not honoring AGS... Might be reasonable if you're making a point about how they didn't give you any funds, but the point is the distribution list and not shows of allegiance. I don't think a fork is a threat because of Denny's lotto DAC and there is no precedent to show AGS is a good target.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline sudo

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Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2014, 03:31:23 PM »
Very cool! Good job. Thoughts:

1) Non-proportional awards for DOGE and BTC... Dogecoin's about to get dusted!
2) Secure distributed RNG, I'm pretty sure Denny's DPOS approach solves that. Any plans to play nice regarding possible name collisions? I'm sure you would not appreciate it if he called his "LottoShares 2.0"
3) Not honoring AGS... Might be reasonable if you're making a point about how they didn't give you any funds, but the point is the distribution list and not shows of allegiance. I don't think a fork is a threat because of Denny's lotto DAC and there is no precedent to show AGS is a good target.

Not honoring AGS

maybe  he  think  DOGE BTC PTS  helps him much   :o

Offline xeroc

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Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2014, 03:36:52 PM »
full support of this community comes at a cost of 10%/10% ags/pts ..

Besides that: its about the perfect time for a decentr. Blochchainbased betting scheme as yours .. good luck ...

Anyway .. please consider 10% for ags. ... please!
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Offline FreeTrade

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Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2014, 03:57:52 PM »
Very cool! Good job. Thoughts:

1) Non-proportional awards for DOGE and BTC... Dogecoin's about to get dusted!
2) Secure distributed RNG, I'm pretty sure Denny's DPOS approach solves that. Any plans to play nice regarding possible name collisions? I'm sure you would not appreciate it if he called his "LottoShares 2.0"
3) Not honoring AGS... Might be reasonable if you're making a point about how they didn't give you any funds, but the point is the distribution list and not shows of allegiance. I don't think a fork is a threat because of Denny's lotto DAC and there is no precedent to show AGS is a good target.

1. The BTC and DOGE block distribution points have already passed.
2. I don't think it solves the problem sufficiently for very large prizes - not sure about name collisions - he seems to be calling it Lotto Dapp . . i've got the lottoshares.org domain and google says 'No results found for +lottoshares'
3. I'm not making any point here, certainly not expecting any funds from AGS. I haven't had any involvement with AGS so it doesn't feel appropriate to distribute shares to AGS holders. My involvement is with MMC and PTS so want to ensure those holders are supported. The intention with BTC and DOGE is to get a free lottery ticket into everyone's hands for maximum involvement.

“People should be more sophisticated? How are you gonna get that done?” - Jerry Seinfeld reply to Bill Maher

Offline toast

Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2014, 04:02:03 PM »
Very cool! Good job. Thoughts:

1) Non-proportional awards for DOGE and BTC... Dogecoin's about to get dusted!
2) Secure distributed RNG, I'm pretty sure Denny's DPOS approach solves that. Any plans to play nice regarding possible name collisions? I'm sure you would not appreciate it if he called his "LottoShares 2.0"
3) Not honoring AGS... Might be reasonable if you're making a point about how they didn't give you any funds, but the point is the distribution list and not shows of allegiance. I don't think a fork is a threat because of Denny's lotto DAC and there is no precedent to show AGS is a good target.

1. The BTC and DOGE block distribution points have already passed.
2. I don't think it solves the problem sufficiently for very large prizes - not sure about name collisions - he seems to be calling it Lotto Dapp . . i've got the lottoshares.org domain and google says 'No results found for +lottoshares'
3. I'm not making any point here, certainly not expecting any funds from AGS. I haven't had any involvement with AGS so it doesn't feel appropriate to distribute shares to AGS holders. My involvement is with MMC and PTS so want to ensure those holders are supported. The intention with BTC and DOGE is to get a free lottery ticket into everyone's hands for maximum involvement.

For #2 I'm talking about our own Denny Wang aka HackFisher in the "charity" subforum. There are two Denny's lottos =P

#3 - please consider AGS! It makes the difference between begrudging and enthusiastic support from the bitshares community. I think the community support may be worth taking 1/4th of the planned dev premine.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline Stan

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Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2014, 04:31:23 PM »
Very cool! Good job. Thoughts:

1) Non-proportional awards for DOGE and BTC... Dogecoin's about to get dusted!
2) Secure distributed RNG, I'm pretty sure Denny's DPOS approach solves that. Any plans to play nice regarding possible name collisions? I'm sure you would not appreciate it if he called his "LottoShares 2.0"
3) Not honoring AGS... Might be reasonable if you're making a point about how they didn't give you any funds, but the point is the distribution list and not shows of allegiance. I don't think a fork is a threat because of Denny's lotto DAC and there is no precedent to show AGS is a good target.

1. The BTC and DOGE block distribution points have already passed.
2. I don't think it solves the problem sufficiently for very large prizes - not sure about name collisions - he seems to be calling it Lotto Dapp . . i've got the lottoshares.org domain and google says 'No results found for +lottoshares'
3. I'm not making any point here, certainly not expecting any funds from AGS. I haven't had any involvement with AGS so it doesn't feel appropriate to distribute shares to AGS holders. My involvement is with MMC and PTS so want to ensure those holders are supported. The intention with BTC and DOGE is to get a free lottery ticket into everyone's hands for maximum involvement.

For #2 I'm talking about our own Denny Wang aka HackFisher in the "charity" subforum. There are two Denny's lottos =P

#3 - please consider AGS! It makes the difference between begrudging and enthusiastic support from the bitshares community. I think the community support may be worth taking 1/4th of the planned dev premine.

Thanks for all you are doing and for honoring PTS!

Honoring AGS also would free us up to include promoting your DAC as part of our media blitz planned to coincide with our big summer-long DAC coming out party.  We are promoting an industry, not one company, and are delighted to promote any third party DACs that the BitShares Social Consensus allows us to support.   

Possible synergies abound!   Joint interviews and videos that people will consume just because they are joint interviews and videos, for example.  You can be a part of every promotion we produce that talks about the Summer Cambrian Explosion of DACs.  Let us bask in each others brilliance!  The whole can be greater than the sum of its parts!

While Denny's DACs and your DACs may look like competitors, the real competitors are established on-line gaming businesses.  You and Denny will drive more awareness to each other's DACs than you will take away from each other.  It's the same reason competing car dealers and hardware stores tend to cluster on the same street.  Get the traffic to come to your neighborhood and then compete!


Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline bitmeat

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Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2014, 05:01:09 PM »
I might buy a bit of MMC, but unless AGS is honored I would not invest too much. I would like to see FreeTrade respecting what the community wants. Seriously consider it!

MMC already had a bad rep due to social contract not being respected. FreeTrade, if you honor both PTS and AGS, I bet you will get a lot more out of it than you are giving away.

Offline FreeTrade

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Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2014, 05:22:23 PM »
Thanks for all you are doing and for honoring PTS!

Honoring AGS also would free us up to include promoting your DAC as part of our media blitz planned to coincide with our big summer-long DAC coming out party.  We are promoting an industry, not one company, and are delighted to promote any third party DACs that the BitShares Social Consensus allows us to support.   

Possible synergies abound!   Joint interviews and videos that people will consume just because they are joint interviews and videos, for example.  You can be a part of every promotion we produce that talks about the Summer Cambrian Explosion of DACs.  Let us bask in each others brilliance!  The whole can be greater than the sum of its parts!

While Denny's DACs and your DACs may look like competitors, the real competitors are established on-line gaming businesses.  You and Denny will drive more awareness to each other's DACs than you will take away from each other.  It's the same reason competing car dealers and hardware stores tend to cluster on the same street.  Get the traffic to come to your neighborhood and then compete!

Thanks Stan. I agree with your point about synergies, and I hope LottoShares will be a stepping stone to help altcoiners understand the DAC concept.

Regarding AGS, I do feel that the 'BitShares Social Consensus' has been subject to 'proportion creep'. The 10% distribution initially suggested with the launch of PTS seemed fair to me and a workable model, and AGS seems like a reasonable way for I3 to raise funds for in-house projects, but a 20% distribution from 3rd party BSD licensed DACs seems excessive. I'd probably feel differently if I was using I3's code from the start - but I'm not.
“People should be more sophisticated? How are you gonna get that done?” - Jerry Seinfeld reply to Bill Maher

Offline bitmeat

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Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2014, 05:28:02 PM »
You allocated 40% for things like marketing. It's not all about the code. Why not work with Stan and see what win win scenarios there might be in honoring AGS? Don't be stubborn, that's one reason MMC didn't do so well.

Offline Agent86

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Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2014, 05:37:36 PM »

Thanks for all you are doing and for honoring PTS!

Honoring AGS also would free us up to include promoting your DAC as part of our media blitz planned to coincide with our big summer-long DAC coming out party. 

I think this could be a cool project and would definitely get behind it if it honored AGS.

We might run into problems promoting it as a DAC if it's not really Decentralized and Autonomous.  But I think we could promote it as a great project that honors our community consensus.

I don't think there's any obligation here, but I think it would generate a lot of good will and we're a cool community!  Please consider it Freetrade!! :)

Offline santaclause102

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Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2014, 05:42:15 PM »

Thanks for all you are doing and for honoring PTS!

Honoring AGS also would free us up to include promoting your DAC as part of our media blitz planned to coincide with our big summer-long DAC coming out party. 

I think this could be a cool project and would definitely get behind it if it honored AGS.

We might run into problems promoting it as a DAC if it's not really Decentralized and Autonomous.  But I think we could promote it as a great project that honors our community consensus.

I don't think there's any obligation here, but I think it would generate a lot of good will and we're a cool community!  Please consider it Freetrade!! :)
+1

Offline JakeThePanda

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Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2014, 05:48:53 PM »
Thanks for all you are doing and for honoring PTS!

Honoring AGS also would free us up to include promoting your DAC as part of our media blitz planned to coincide with our big summer-long DAC coming out party.  We are promoting an industry, not one company, and are delighted to promote any third party DACs that the BitShares Social Consensus allows us to support.   

Possible synergies abound!   Joint interviews and videos that people will consume just because they are joint interviews and videos, for example.  You can be a part of every promotion we produce that talks about the Summer Cambrian Explosion of DACs.  Let us bask in each others brilliance!  The whole can be greater than the sum of its parts!

While Denny's DACs and your DACs may look like competitors, the real competitors are established on-line gaming businesses.  You and Denny will drive more awareness to each other's DACs than you will take away from each other.  It's the same reason competing car dealers and hardware stores tend to cluster on the same street.  Get the traffic to come to your neighborhood and then compete!

Thanks Stan. I agree with your point about synergies, and I hope LottoShares will be a stepping stone to help altcoiners understand the DAC concept.

Regarding AGS, I do feel that the 'BitShares Social Consensus' has been subject to 'proportion creep'. The 10% distribution initially suggested with the launch of PTS seemed fair to me and a workable model, and AGS seems like a reasonable way for I3 to raise funds for in-house projects, but a 20% distribution from 3rd party BSD licensed DACs seems excessive. I'd probably feel differently if I was using I3's code from the start - but I'm not.

I appreciate your point of view, but you are giving away 20% to BTC and Doge.  How are you going to communicate the airdrop to all the BTC holders?  BTC ownership has become much more widespread these days.  Most BTC holders probably don't browse bitcointalk and other forums.  It seems like a lot of coins will be wasted when they could have went to a community that is 100% likely to embrace the development and help promote it. 

Just my 2 bitshares.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 05:53:15 PM by JakeThePanda »

Offline toast

Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2014, 05:50:27 PM »
You allocated 40% for things like marketing. It's not all about the code. Why not work with Stan and see what win win scenarios there might be in honoring AGS? Don't be stubborn, that's one reason MMC didn't do so well.

True, I put MMC subforum on ignore because of this.

Between 40% dev premine, 20% to btc, and 20% to doge, I think finding 10% for AGS will only add value.
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Offline tonyk

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Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2014, 06:03:50 PM »
Very cool! Good job. Thoughts:
...
3) Not honoring AGS
 

#3 - please consider AGS! It makes the difference between begrudging and enthusiastic support from the bitshares community. I think the community support may be worth taking 1/4th of the planned dev premine.

It is funny how smart people like Nicokai ( **toast**) can easily be lead into wrong thought process and believes.

Here is the simple truth:
Invictus came and said –“The social consensus is AGS should be honored at least 10%”
-First it is not a social consensus it is just private party saying something (i.e. there is no consensus)

-Second it is pretty contradictory/illogical statement – donate X amount to us/me, and expect somebody else to give you shares for this gesture.

-Third, I3 took the AGS money and said they will use it to develop the DAC industry, instead later on they said – “Now that we have the money, we will keep them AS A BACK UP for our salaries for 12 mo.” Even that in those 12 mo. the donor/investors expect(ed) a lot of DACs coming and producing money for those developers salaries…

-Forth, The only logical reason left  to honor AGS holders is for marketing purposes. But this audience is already reached by honoring PTS. There is a very small % of people donating to AGS only through BTC. More than 90% of AGS donors do it through some combination of BTC and PTS (The only notable exception I am aware of is Agent86 who does not have PTS account..., but then again I do not think Agent86 is a real person but rather a second  internet/forum handle  for a real person)
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline bitmeat

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Re: Honoring AGS
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2014, 06:08:04 PM »
How AGS is handled is a completely different problem, and I agree with you wholeheartedly, tonyk!

However given that he is giving away 20% to BTC and DOGE, is a huge blow to bitshares community. BTC and DOGE don't give you anything in return either, well perhaps some free marketing.

 

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