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Offline Amazon

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Tatiana Coin
« on: June 04, 2014, 07:32:12 PM »

Tatiana Moroz is launching the very first ever musical artist coin on the Counter Party Protocol.

http://www.coinpowers.com/project.aspx?id=11155
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Online donkeypong

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Re: Tatiana Coin
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2014, 09:05:12 PM »
Deja vu. Didn't she already do one of these on Mastercoin? Oh well, if she did, then it's probably lost in Mastercoin's tangled web.

Offline cass

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Re: Tatiana Coin
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2014, 09:57:53 PM »
Adam B. Levine - nice :)
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Offline AdamBLevine

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Re: Tatiana Coin
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2014, 04:43:14 AM »
Deja vu. Didn't she already do one of these on Mastercoin? Oh well, if she did, then it's probably lost in Mastercoin's tangled web.

No, the project initially was courted by Mastercoin and Counterparty, but she went with Counterparty.  The funding campaign (which borrows the Angelshares model!) began yesterday and I'd encourage anyone interested in pushing these models forward to contribute (in the same way as AGS, a little per day not all on one day to maximize your impact)

Offline liondani

Re: Tatiana Coin
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2014, 12:33:57 PM »
supporting Tatiana would be good for our community!

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Offline liondani

Re: Tatiana Coin
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2014, 01:25:53 PM »
Tatiana coin would end the fundraising in 30 Days from the beginning...
They distribute every day 100.000 coins so at the end (30 days) it would exist 3.000.000 coins.
Now after 15 Days they expand the time to another 30 Days without any notice!!!
That means they will give now everyday 50.000 coins instead of 100.000 ... that means everyones strategy is f% up!
The winners are the investors that have invest the majority of their fund the first 15 days (grats Adam)...
And if some of them had the knowledge  (of course they did) they will pocket at least double the money compared with anybody else that had only the first public info's.
Adam B Levine was very aggressive with his comments when Invictus has "changed the rules" as he stated... I am very  interested to see how he will now respond/react* to this obvious WITHOUT NOTICE change of rules ...


*'I can't wait to see what you do next...  :)
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 01:29:15 PM by liondani »
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Offline testz

Re: Tatiana Coin
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2014, 03:41:06 PM »
Tatiana coin would end the fundraising in 30 Days from the beginning...
They distribute every day 100.000 coins so at the end (30 days) it would exist 3.000.000 coins.
Now after 15 Days they expand the time to another 30 Days without any notice!!!
That means they will give now everyday 50.000 coins instead of 100.000 ... that means everyones strategy is f% up!
The winners are the investors that have invest the majority of their fund the first 15 days (grats Adam)...
And if some of them had the knowledge  (of course they did) they will pocket at least double the money compared with anybody else that had only the first public info's.
Adam B Levine was very aggressive with his comments when Invictus has "changed the rules" as he stated... I am very  interested to see how he will now respond/react* to this obvious WITHOUT NOTICE change of rules ...


*'I can't wait to see what you do next...  :)

Interesting case, looking forward...  :)

Offline AdamBLevine

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Re: Tatiana Coin
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2014, 08:27:51 PM »
We gave notice four days before the change and that announcement actually seems to have caused donations to go up.  Refunds are available for people who feel they've been mistreated and the new fixed price model locks in a 25x increase from the average price paid, and removes the uncertainty of relying on USD exchange rates (Rewards are now prices in Tatianacoin, so 100 Tatianacoin for the first reward rather than $5 worth of tatianacoin).   I like the angelshares model, but it's obvious it would work much better in a situation like Maidsafe with overwhelming demand.

My priority in this instance is to protect the best interests of Tatiana and the people supporting her.  Tatiana was having all of her tokens distributed without raising the funds she required to be able to deliver.   Had we continued the sale it is likely she would have distributed all 3 million TC that would ever be created for less than 10,000usd rather than the 25k required. 

I strongly suggested that letting the campaign fail was probably the best option if this were the case because it would undo everything, but Tatiana did not want to risk having a failure associated with her name.  I advocated making the campaign fixed price and indefinite since she's planning on touring anyhow and it would let her sell the tokens to fans as she sees them in her normal touring and can communicate the value.   She wanted to stay on CoinPowers, and CoinPowers isn't a permanent home for coinsales but didn't want to restrict herself to just fifteen days now to explain the NEW model.   The plan is to run for another 30 days on Coinpowers then Tatiana gets whatever coins she does not allocate to donors to fundraise in the future as she pleases.

If you can identify any user groups or individuals who are being mistreated I'm happy to re-examine our approach.

Online donkeypong

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Re: Tatiana Coin
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2014, 12:03:55 AM »
Kudos to you for managing it well. That said, it seems to me that Bitshares Music cannot come soon enough.

Offline liondani

Re: Tatiana Coin
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2014, 07:23:29 AM »


  The plan is to run for another 30 days on Coinpowers then Tatiana gets whatever coins she does not allocate to donors to fundraise in the future as she pleases.

so even the 50.000 coins/day is not the case!!!  In my mind it is even worst!  Because now it is a Defacto  premine case ... so if the next 27 days she will sell 500.000 coins from the 1.500.000 available...  she will get at the end 1.000.000 coins for free...  like a 30% premine!!!  why fixed price for each coin?  which one decided the price? I think it will attract now less supporters...



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Offline AdamBLevine

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Re: Tatiana Coin
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2014, 07:09:46 PM »
Tatiana has committed to honoring Tatianacoin and not to ever create more than the 3 million during this campaign.  It's a little funny to hear you talking in terms of pre-mine, when this is a user created asset only made valuable by her work.  She chose the price because she's who the coin is all about, and whose value is predicated on it.   Also the only person who she can redeem her coins for value with is... her.   So unless she wants to pay herself for five custom songs (200,000 tokens each), unless the market is actually deep enough to want to buy those 1,000,000 tokens from her there isn't much value in it for her unless the coin succeeds for all it's holders.  Right?

This was always a 100% premine, just as Bitshares is - The people who make the project happen are the privledged first holders, and since there is not enough support from outside (the project was not raising the required funds) doesn't it make sense that Tatiana keep what has not already been committed and use them to fundraise later when the market is more receptive?   

There isn't a possibility of dilution since she's now fixed prices where before they fluctuated based on market demand, if market demand went lower then everybodys tatianacoins would continue losing value whereas now with a fixed exchange it's pretty straightforward.

What exactly is your concern? 

Offline liondani

Re: Tatiana Coin
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2014, 02:44:09 PM »
if market demand went lower then everybody tatianacoins would continue losing value whereas now with a fixed exchange it's pretty straightforward

How do you know demand would went lower?
I personally believe because as days past more people would be informed about Tatiana coin, I would predict the last Days the demand would go much higher!
I was convinced that the last week she would easy go beyond $25.000...
Personally I wanted to invest more... a little bit every 2-3 Days...I guess many would do the same... Now I have lost faith on the fundraising method (Not Tatiana) because somebody changed the rules... I am not sure what is coming next... First of all it is not fair for Tatiana... Hope in future that  talented artist's like Tatiana will choose platform's with people behind it with more experience and knowledge of economics (yes i mean bitshares)... So we can invest without fear that the fundraising will "fail"(get not the funds they deserved) because of an bad IPO where rules are changing every know and then even if the changes was supposed to have a good impact.... For me the first mistake was that 1 month is a too small period to inform the community's... The second mistake (and biggest) is you expanded the time choosing a differrent system (fixed price,much higher then the initial...), why not the same just less coins/day? (the impact because changing the rules would be again negative, but not us much as now....)


PS you can still fix it before it is to late! See how much the demand is lower then the last days... it is pretty obvious that the market don't liked that change!
     If Tatiana will get to much of her coin's she will loose to much time and energy to sell them... It is better she has not so much coins of here but with much more value !!! (like 10X, or 20X etc.)
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 06:03:54 PM by liondani »
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Offline liondani

Re: Tatiana Coin
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2014, 06:18:20 PM »
What about the idea to give a % of Tatiana coins after fundraising ends  to AGS donators with a snapshot that will take place after the end of AGS donations (only one day difference!)...?
She would have great support from our community and maybe she would try bitshares also out after considering the support... After all  she will have a ton of Tatiana Coins to manage after 25 Days... Maybe bitsharesX can make a new Asset like bitTatiana to help her sell here coins from a better platform?
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Offline AdamBLevine

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Re: Tatiana Coin
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2014, 07:01:03 PM »
The campaign has always been Tatianas, we gave her the options, she consulted with advisors and she selected her path.   I think a time constrained approach to the sale in general was pre-mature, and the primary mistake I personally made in advising her.  The demand just wasn't there to have time pressure generate anything but poor results.   

Offline liondani

Re: Tatiana Coin
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2014, 10:44:01 PM »
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