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Offline Empirical1

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This could easily be a terrible idea, & I guess in a sense BitsharesXT will be it's own coin, but I had the thought of a free stake DPOS Crypto-Currency only coin, with a non BitShares brand name, launched by a third party and done similarly to the way NEM went about things.

My thinking is that interest from the alt-coin investor market in Bitshares & DAC's is limited/already reached current saturation point until there are profitable, user friendly products on the market, so I think trying to generate any new real interest in the last few weeks of AGS is going to be a struggle. However this problem is not confined to Bitshares. XCP and Mastercoin which are in a sense next level investments have very low daily volumes and are not as popular as many 'crypto-currencies'.

As Marty Mcfly said in Back To The Future - "I guess you guys aren't ready for that yet."




The fact seems to be that what is still grabbing the markets attention at the moment is 'what is the next cool coin?'.

Now seeing as DPOS>POS>POW and TITAN etc. is pretty cool, if a third party announced a crypto-currency only coin where 20% goes to AGS & PTS but the rest is given as free stakes to people who post a DOGE/Litecoin/NXT address, with some non multi-accounting measures. (Something that brings in a few of the most popular other communities.) I have a feeling that will generate a lot of interest in DPOS and will be a great platform & thread to get people interested in BitShares & comfortable with the 20% social consensus and perhaps be a way to test Sharedrops without risking critical DAC's.

Cons:  It could be a huge can of worms, detract/confuse the BitsharesXT launch, reflect badly on Bitshares if there are major issues or problems & many other reasons. Just putting it out there, as it's the best way I can think atm to potentially generate quick massive indirect interest in BitShares as a whole in the next few weeks.

Thoughts?

 

Offline Simeon II

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Re: Creating a third party launched, free stake, DPOS-based coin?
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2014, 03:11:38 PM »
I think the idea behind this
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5078.msg66724#msg66724
 was exactly that  (with some extremes  - distribution to not only those that post interest but to possibly everyone). I believe it might have been misunderstood as overtaking over Litecoin, even though the OP-er specifically states it can be any name…

Anyhow I myself  may have understood the idea wrongly, but the important part was the community thought such action is a terrible image problem for Bitshares.

2c.

I myself do not have any strong opinion one way or the other.

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Re: Creating a third party launched, free stake, DPOS-based coin?
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2014, 03:50:23 PM »
So why not create a chain which snapshots BTC to an asset called cBTC .. LTC to an cLTC and so on for the top 20 or so coins
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Offline Empirical1

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Re: Creating a third party launched, free stake, DPOS-based coin?
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2014, 05:50:43 PM »
I think the idea behind this
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5078.msg66724#msg66724
 was exactly that  (with some extremes  - distribution to not only those that post interest but to possibly everyone). I believe it might have been misunderstood as overtaking over Litecoin, even though the OP-er specifically states it can be any name…

Anyhow I myself  may have understood the idea wrongly, but the important part was the community thought such action is a terrible image problem for Bitshares.

2c.

I myself do not have any strong opinion one way or the other.


Thanks for the link, yes that was more interpreted as a Litecoin upgrade, I agree with most of the points though, except Luckybit, (I like his passion, think he's a big asset, probably made one of the most positive, productive contributions to BitShares around, but I've noticed that if you're idea isn't specifically  'sharedropping to BlackCoin at 50/50' then you're going to get a lot of long essays telling you why it's bad  :D )

Quote
So why not create a chain which snapshots BTC to an asset called cBTC .. LTC to an cLTC and so on for the top 20 or so coins

- Hmm, maybe not what you're suggesting, but I don't think there's a lot of love for upgrading other coins, so an entirely new coin that happens to use DPOS is probably better.
- Though more fair, snap-shotting is quite passive. Creating a new coin where there is a limited time or limited amount of stakes and one that requires people to respond on Bitcointalk will generate a lot more buzz and interest in the alt-coin community imo.

If BitShares XT is made trade-able before the AGS window closes that may generate some buzz about DPOS and indirect Bitshares interest in general. 

(The more I think about it, my idea would probably be a can of worms, just trying to think of ways BitShares would get on the radar before the AGS window closed.)
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 05:53:57 PM by Empirical1 »

Offline Simeon II

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Re: Creating a third party launched, free stake, DPOS-based coin?
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2014, 06:04:52 PM »
I like his passion, think he's a big asset, probably made one of the most positive, productive contributions to BitShares around, but I've noticed that if you're idea isn't specifically  'sharedropping to BlackCoin at 50/50' then you're going to get a lot of long essays telling you why it's bad  :D )

 :D

Offline fuzzy

Re: Creating a third party launched, free stake, DPOS-based coin?
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2014, 01:57:48 AM »
I think the idea behind this
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5078.msg66724#msg66724
 was exactly that  (with some extremes  - distribution to not only those that post interest but to possibly everyone). I believe it might have been misunderstood as overtaking over Litecoin, even though the OP-er specifically states it can be any name…

Anyhow I myself  may have understood the idea wrongly, but the important part was the community thought such action is a terrible image problem for Bitshares.

2c.

I myself do not have any strong opinion one way or the other.


Thanks for the link, yes that was more interpreted as a Litecoin upgrade, I agree with most of the points though, except Luckybit, (I like his passion, think he's a big asset, probably made one of the most positive, productive contributions to BitShares around, but I've noticed that if you're idea isn't specifically  'sharedropping to BlackCoin at 50/50' then you're going to get a lot of long essays telling you why it's bad  :D )

Quote
So why not create a chain which snapshots BTC to an asset called cBTC .. LTC to an cLTC and so on for the top 20 or so coins

- Hmm, maybe not what you're suggesting, but I don't think there's a lot of love for upgrading other coins, so an entirely new coin that happens to use DPOS is probably better.
- Though more fair, snap-shotting is quite passive. Creating a new coin where there is a limited time or limited amount of stakes and one that requires people to respond on Bitcointalk will generate a lot more buzz and interest in the alt-coin community imo.

If BitShares XT is made trade-able before the AGS window closes that may generate some buzz about DPOS and indirect Bitshares interest in general. 

(The more I think about it, my idea would probably be a can of worms, just trying to think of ways BitShares would get on the radar before the AGS window closed.)

My understanding is that blackshares and these concepts are intended to actually provide each community a forked chain of bitshares Bank and Exchange (so in this example, blackshares X) that honors their coins community along with PTS/AGS for 50/50 stake.

Let them essentially help test DPOS and create their own maintanence and updates to compete with eachother.  In return they get a lot--most importantly a decentralized bank and exchange they do not have to further buy into (like blackhalo apparently does). That is my understanding and I think when we look at the "rules of the crypto universe", this makes sense. 

There are more than a few coins coming out and moving into the phase where creating decentralized exchanges is the sexy new fad.  But if they want to develop it this late in the game they have to somehow fund that development and still are behind the competition from the start of the race.  DPOS might be used not for the specific coins, but for the exchanges and that coin's "shares".  Then you get the forked code really growing organically and innovated to whatever level they wish.  This is powerful and most importantly, if the coins all honor other coins to provide a good mixture, then all their users will be diversified by default. 

Honor the occasion of each coin's fork with a statement of historical significance in the first bitshares X clone blockchains' genesis blocks and have a story about it.  Marketing all around, leveraging crypto community and devs to test and innovate on the original design (bitshares X original can adopt solutions that prove best) seems cool to me.  Plus we can sell to them "hey, TITAN is basically better than DRK and your users get it right out of the box". 

Interested in more conversation specifically because the Whitecoin (Karmacoin was also interested) community was largely very interested in doing this when I was chatting to them on IRC.  They feel like it will give them a (more economical) means of providing their users with a decentralized exchange and will essentially give them a chance to spring past Blackcoin. 

In the case of each coin approached about this would eventually either fork to DPOS (after realizing its superiority over their current methods) or would be forced to produce something better...which could then be adopted by the original bitshares iterations (if necessary).  In the case of blackcoin and whitecoin, I am curious (but also unnerved) with the potential they would have to improve DPOS Delegation. 

In the end, all that matters in this game is that other communities want to mimic and compete with Bitshares because if they do, the game is half won already.  If a large number of them honor PTS/AGS holders with every fork, then the other half is in the bag.  To me it is silly not to try to form symbiotic partnerships using sharedrops because the terms of sharedropping are far different than those of airdropping.  It actually creates a completely different incentive structure than the current one as well.  Plus, imagine for one moment just how much better it will be to hold onto PTS and get sharedropped coins/shares as opposed to having to sell your bitcoin to buy and hold a coin that likely will not be a long-term play.  All altcoins that participate will likely become far better candidates for "long-term investment" than others. 

Some people are afraid that 50/50 snapshots to other crypto communities is going to significantly hurt the value of PTS, but we are not talking about an industry where giants like Visa and Mastercard are constantly battling--there is still a LOT of room for growth. 

Hope this helps people understand the basics of this concept.  There are other ideas that "plug in" here, but i'll leave it at that.  Just want to clarify some potential misunderstandings ;)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2014, 05:11:47 AM by fuznuts »
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Offline santaclause102

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Re: Creating a third party launched, free stake, DPOS-based coin?
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2014, 02:47:28 AM »
 +5% like the idea.
Snapshoting whole coins gets you more supporters though than if everyone can post NXT/LTC/DODGE...

merockstar

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Re: Creating a third party launched, free stake, DPOS-based coin?
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2014, 06:35:25 AM »
I think it's a good idea, if you have to motivation and technical know how to make it happen (I don't so I don't want to go encouraging you to do it unless you're dead set on putting in the necessary work to develop a coin).

You could just go down the list at coinmarketcap.com and give ten percent to each of the top ten coins:

10% to AGS
10% to PTS
10% to NXT
10% to Darkcoin
10% to Peercoin
10% to Dogecoin
10% to Namecoin
10% to Blackcoin
10% to Mastercoin (if possible)
10% to Bitcoin

if nothing else, people would then be exposed to DPOS by virtue of the need to claim their free coinage.

Or expand the list to twenty or twenty-five coins, but maybe give 20% to Bitcoin and less of a percentage to the less popular (and thus less distributed coins).

maybe i'm biased though cause this means I'd get free coins :P

Offline Empirical1

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Re: Creating a third party launched, free stake, DPOS-based coin?
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2014, 03:01:38 PM »
I think it's a good idea, if you have to motivation and technical know how to make it happen

Nope I have neither the motivation or the technical know how  :) I was just putting the idea out there, so some third parties who will ultimately be cloning DPOS at some point could perhaps get the ball rolling now and inadvertently give BitShares some indirect free advertising.

But I think the Bitshares XT launch will do the job much better, I just don't know if it's going to happen before the BitShares-AGS window closes.

 

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