Author [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: Link to Delegate Voting Canonizer Page  (Read 360 times)

Offline fuzzy

Link to Delegate Voting Canonizer Page
« on: July 11, 2014, 05:01:30 AM »

http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/165

Please feel free to stop by and test the waters with me.  Let us see if this might help us establish consensus ;)
BROWNIE==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits Welcome to  the Sharing Economy w/ BeyondBitcoin.org Partners--ShareBits.io & OpenLedger.info
TIP FORMAT: #sharebits "ForumHandleInQuotes" Quanity Token_Name

Offline Brent.Allsop

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 242
    • View Profile
    • Canonizer.com
Re: Link to Delegate Voting Canonizer Page
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2014, 12:54:01 PM »

Hey Fuz,

Yea, this is perfect.  This is the perfect tool to communicate with everyone, concisely and quantitatively, in a way that will significantly amplify the wisdom of the crowd, in a way that will ratchet up everyone's knowledge across time, as people come and go in an accelerated way.  It will enable everyone to build, amplify, and comunicate what and why is the best consensus, and if a new better idea comes along by a new person, it'll be far easear to comunicate this to the rest of the crowd, and quickly switch the consensus.  That which you can measure, improves.

I've wanted to start a survey topic on exactly this topic before, but am still a bit unclear exactly what we are asking.  And that's the purpose of the survey root camp statement.  To describe, exactly, what the problem to solve, and the what, exactly this survey topic's goal is.

So perhaps you could start by submitting a first draft of a root camp statement, describing exactly the problem, and the current state of the art beliefs which most people have agreed on so far?


Upwards,

Brent Allsop










Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11964
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BTS: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Re: Link to Delegate Voting Canonizer Page
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2014, 02:36:57 PM »
How does canonizer work? Whats so special? Never used it
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline Brent.Allsop

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 242
    • View Profile
    • Canonizer.com
Re: Link to Delegate Voting Canonizer Page
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2014, 06:58:31 PM »
Hi xeroc,

Thanks for asking,  the simple answer is it is just a wiki system, with camps.
So the yes camp people can create and join their camp, and visa for all competing theories/desires.  Mostly, it is a consensus building and measuring system, and it is even way more than that.

Most people falsely jump to the conclusion that we are simply trying to determine "truth" via popularity.  But it's just the opposite of that.  It is a system for a minority of experts who are the first to see a new better way.  It's a communication tool they can use the get buy in from everyone.  It is a rigorous tool to better communicate in a way that you can measure, concisely and quantitatively, who is on board, and just as important, who is not yet on board, and why (what is still required to get them on board), and so on.

The big problem with grass roots organizations and things like Bitcoin, is there is no way to know, concisely and quantitatively what everyone wants.  With any hierarchy, you just ask the leader, and nothing else matters.  What is needed, is the same power with a huge crowd.  Even the crowd, itself, needs to know, and be able to work within all that, without censoring anyone.

We believe Bitshares is becoming the greatest technology.  How do we build expert consensus around that, and pull everyone else on board with us, in a way that sucks in any great new ideas they have, and instantly adopts them, and so on.  How do we show to everyone the superiority of Bitshare products, so we can get beyond all the advertizing hype for inferior products, in a trusted open way even the competitors can contribute to?  How do we do all that, and make lightning fast major direction change decisions, that the entire crowd can instantly be on board with (in a rigorously quantitatively measurable real time way) without any hierarchies?

Canonizer.com can do all that.

« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 07:07:23 PM by Brent.Allsop »

Offline 天籁

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 538
    • View Profile
Re: Link to Delegate Voting Canonizer Page
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2014, 10:10:06 PM »
 +5%

We believe Bitshares is becoming the greatest technology.  How do we build expert consensus around that, and pull everyone else on board with us, in a way that sucks in any great new ideas they have, and instantly adopts them, and so on.  How do we show to everyone the superiority of Bitshare products, so we can get beyond all the advertizing hype for inferior products, in a trusted open way even the competitors can contribute to?  How do we do all that, and make lightning fast major direction change decisions, that the entire crowd can instantly be on board with (in a rigorously quantitatively measurable real time way) without any hierarchies?

BTS account: disneyland
PLAY account: playone

Offline gamey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2252
    • View Profile
Re: Link to Delegate Voting Canonizer Page
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2014, 10:39:31 PM »

I've visited your site a couple of times.  The basic problem is that it appeared you needed people on the other side.  Most people are not going to form an argument where one doesn't exist.

I didn't spend a whole lot of time but the UI is confusing.  You should probably add some form of a wizard so that one person can create all the top level camps etc.  Right now it just seems too much to figure out what is going on.  Find some people to use it and give you feedback on how to improve usability.
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline fuzzy

Re: Link to Delegate Voting Canonizer Page
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2014, 11:26:07 PM »

I've visited your site a couple of times.  The basic problem is that it appeared you needed people on the other side.  Most people are not going to form an argument where one doesn't exist.

I didn't spend a whole lot of time but the UI is confusing.  You should probably add some form of a wizard so that one person can create all the top level camps etc.  Right now it just seems too much to figure out what is going on.  Find some people to use it and give you feedback on how to improve usability.

I would agree there...it is still in a place where the UI could make it easier to understand how to participate.  Scroll-over tool-tips would do wonders for this. 

In my humble opinion, I see in canonizer the possibility for delegates to each have camps that can enable a higher level of transparency and crowd-sourced information about each delegate service, too.  This is a place where bitcoin and proof of work, in general, cannot work like DPOS and similar systems.  That is my great interest.
BROWNIE==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits Welcome to  the Sharing Economy w/ BeyondBitcoin.org Partners--ShareBits.io & OpenLedger.info
TIP FORMAT: #sharebits "ForumHandleInQuotes" Quanity Token_Name

Offline Brent.Allsop

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 242
    • View Profile
    • Canonizer.com
Re: Link to Delegate Voting Canonizer Page
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2014, 02:36:26 AM »
+5%

=天籁, thanks for the +5%.

Gamey,  everything you've said is obvious, and many people using the system have already pointed out all these things.  There is already a long list of things to do, including all these things, and volunteers are earning Canonon Coins, trying to fix some of these many obvious problems.  Those that get it, can see what this can do, those that don't seem to miss that, and have troubles understanding anything but the problems that haven't been fixed by anyone yet.

Either way, thanks for all the feedback, it all helps.

Brent



 

Google+