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Offline Xeldal

Disingenuous Delegates Deceit
« on: July 21, 2014, 04:26:45 PM »

Quote
2817  skynet                          1.5786321227 % 112      2        98.25 %       100 %    171.16786 BTSX      20764
5284  deepbit                         1.5786312836 % 86       1        98.85 %       100 %    157.52951 BTSX      20855
5283  slush                           1.5786309162 % 82       3        96.47 %       100 %    150.18198 BTSX      20854
7155  bitfury                         1.5786256690 % 19       0        100.00 %      100 %    45.25236 BTSX       20812
7159  ozcoin                          1.5786256687 % 19       0        100.00 %      100 %    45.24676 BTSX       20810
7188  darkwallet                      1.5786255496 % 18       0        100.00 %      100 %    42.86427 BTSX       20835
7168  zeroblock                       1.5786255493 % 18       0        100.00 %      100 %    42.85980 BTSX       20850
7154  blockerupter                    1.5786254310 % 17       0        100.00 %      100 %    40.49258 BTSX       20785
7152  bfl                             1.5786254302 % 17       1        94.44 %       100 %    40.47807 BTSX       20846
7182  bitpoint                        1.5786254302 % 17       1        94.44 %       100 %    40.47779 BTSX       20819
7177  ngzhang                         1.5786254299 % 17       1        94.44 %       100 %    40.47054 BTSX       20849
7274  eligius                         1.5786254297 % 17       0        100.00 %      100 %    40.46674 BTSX       20802
7161  tianhe                          1.5786253123 % 16       0        100.00 %      100 %    38.11956 BTSX       20719
7276  cloudhashing                    1.5786253106 % 16       1        94.12 %       100 %    38.08604 BTSX       20815
7277  bitcoinica                      1.5786251921 % 15       1        93.75 %       100 %    35.71654 BTSX       20851
7273  p2pool                          1.5786250739 % 14       1        93.33 %       100 %    33.35261 BTSX       20729

Clearly this is 1 person. 

I'm a little Disgusted. >:(

Offline bytemaster

Re: Disingenuous Delegates Deceit
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2014, 05:04:09 PM »
Where are negative votes when you need them...
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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Xeldal

Re: Disingenuous Delegates Deceit
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2014, 06:53:56 PM »
more of the same BS

Quote
8354  grue                            1.4502068769 % 3        0        100.00 %      100 %    7.07166 BTSX        21668
8351  bitrick                         1.4502068768 % 3        0        100.00 %      100 %    7.06998 BTSX        21733
8356  gmaxwell                        1.4502068767 % 3        0        100.00 %      100 %    7.06847 BTSX        21738
8353  horserider                      1.4502067591 % 2        0        100.00 %      100 %    4.71548 BTSX        21619
8346  cryptx                          1.4502067590 % 2        0        100.00 %      100 %    4.71501 BTSX        21621
8350  ckolivas                        1.4502067590 % 2        0        100.00 %      100 %    4.71498 BTSX        21637
8355  andresen                        1.4502067590 % 2        0        100.00 %      100 %    4.71424 BTSX        21639
8349  sunnyking                       1.4502067590 % 2        0        100.00 %      100 %    4.71412 BTSX        21666
8345  rockxie                         1.4502067590 % 2        0        100.00 %      100 %    4.71360 BTSX        21701
8352  tysat                           1.4502067590 % 2        0        100.00 %      100 %    4.71350 BTSX        21707
8347  hazek                           1.4502067590 % 2        0        100.00 %      100 %    4.71343 BTSX        21667
8357  malevolent                      1.4502067589 % 2        0        100.00 %      100 %    4.71303 BTSX        21697
8348  linode                          1.4502066412 % 1        1        50.00 %       100 %    2.35834 BTSX        21538

Offline ElMato

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Re: Disingenuous Delegates Deceit
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2014, 07:02:17 PM »
more of the same BS

Quote
8354  grue                            1.4502068769 % 3        0        100.00 %      100 %    7.07166 BTSX        21668
8351  bitrick                         1.4502068768 % 3        0        100.00 %      100 %    7.06998 BTSX        21733
8356  gmaxwell                        1.4502068767 % 3        0        100.00 %      100 %    7.06847 BTSX        21738
8353  horserider                      1.4502067591 % 2        0        100.00 %      100 %    4.71548 BTSX        21619
8346  cryptx                          1.4502067590 % 2        0        100.00 %      100 %    4.71501 BTSX        21621
8350  ckolivas                        1.4502067590 % 2        0        100.00 %      100 %    4.71498 BTSX        21637
8355  andresen                        1.4502067590 % 2        0        100.00 %      100 %    4.71424 BTSX        21639
8349  sunnyking                       1.4502067590 % 2        0        100.00 %      100 %    4.71412 BTSX        21666
8345  rockxie                         1.4502067590 % 2        0        100.00 %      100 %    4.71360 BTSX        21701
8352  tysat                           1.4502067590 % 2        0        100.00 %      100 %    4.71350 BTSX        21707
8347  hazek                           1.4502067590 % 2        0        100.00 %      100 %    4.71343 BTSX        21667
8357  malevolent                      1.4502067589 % 2        0        100.00 %      100 %    4.71303 BTSX        21697
8348  linode                          1.4502066412 % 1        1        50.00 %       100 %    2.35834 BTSX        21538


How do you realize that is the same person?




Offline wesphily

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Re: Disingenuous Delegates Deceit
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2014, 07:10:31 PM »
Can somebody explain what this means?

Offline Xeldal

Re: Disingenuous Delegates Deceit
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2014, 07:10:42 PM »
I can't be 100% sure, but the ID's are back to back so they were created near the same point in time, and the vote percentages are near exactly the same, indicating that the same stake likely has voted for all of them. 

The names all follow a similar theme. They're all popular bitcoin businesses/mining pools/prominent bitcointalk usernames etc.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: Disingenuous Delegates Deceit
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2014, 07:15:16 PM »
So someone has a big stake and votes for his own delegates?

Offline toast

Re: Disingenuous Delegates Deceit
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2014, 07:18:01 PM »
I don't think this is a huge problem. As soon as the average delegate's approval goes above the largest stakeholder's stake, then there will be no point in voting all for your own delegates and this guy will start voting for who he thinks is best.

Just get more people to vote. We have like 1% of stake voting not counting the temporary AGS votes.
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Offline Xeldal

Re: Disingenuous Delegates Deceit
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2014, 07:18:57 PM »
So someone has a big stake and votes for his own delegates?

Yes, and there's nothing wrong with that.  But the use of popular names and businesses is disingenuous, and the intent is clearly to deceive.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Disingenuous Delegates Deceit
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2014, 07:25:45 PM »
So someone has a big stake and votes for his own delegates?

Yes, and there's nothing wrong with that.  But the use of popular names and businesses is disingenuous, and the intent is clearly to deceive.

We have a plan for that with Follow My Vote :)
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Riverhead

Re: Disingenuous Delegates Deceit
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2014, 07:28:45 PM »
I would like to see this sorted out with tools and votes rather than punitive action.  A truly open and decentralized system needs to be able to look after itself without a centralized authority.  This is a great test of what this community can and will do.

Offline wackou

Re: Disingenuous Delegates Deceit
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2014, 07:33:55 PM »
there are a lot more than those... Actually, out of the 100 first delegates, a huge number seems disingenuous/dishonest... >:(

All the names/delegates that were present and active during the dry runs, who were people that were making bitshares a vibrant ecosystem have been relegated to rank > 100 and even > 200, while all the first spots have been taken by whoever voted for their +10 delegates. This is a blatant case of "the rich get richer", and these people will certainly not do anything for the network except collecting their fees and sit on it while the rest of us just get disappointed and disgusted...

I have to say that I missed the moment where the votes for a transaction go to *all* the delegates that are approved, I thought that they would be divided between the number of approved delegates in a wallet, or in a round-robin fashion, but in any case I was expecting that the total sum of votes would be 100%. This would mean that a whale could only upvote one of their delegate, or more of them but then the stake would have been divided by the number of voted delegates, which would have prevented the situation we have now.

Pushing it further, I can even see that those people with high stake and their big number of delegates could collude and get, say, all their 80 delegates active, each with 25% approval, and the rest of us can keep our few percents and weep. For me, I was always attracted to bitshares because I imagined a slate of 100 different delegates, each offering something different and contributing to the network either by writing code, promoting bitshares, donating to charities, ... and making the world a better place while still building an efficient and modern financial system. This vision is kinda slipping away right now...

In any case, I think the approval rating of delegates that we have now is flawed, and something needs to be done about it. I don't think the situation as it is now could be fixed, even if people with a huge stake would get involved (invictus?) because I feel this would just lead to a race to the top where most of delegates would all have > 50% and where the difference between delegates would not be significant enough and would not be very stable. Please tell me I'm wrong.
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Disingenuous Delegates Deceit
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2014, 07:38:15 PM »
I think that it is too early to judge... the fact that someone with such a large stake is being deceitful is very troubling, but then again if the other 95% of stake holders got on board then it would clear up.

No system is perfect, especially one based on voting. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline toast

Re: Disingenuous Delegates Deceit
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2014, 07:43:59 PM »
@wackou  I think what you're missing is that this sort of behavior can only happen when the average delegate has lower approval than some individual's balance. Eventually what should happen is that even the lowest voted delegate has more approval than any individual has stake and so you can't just vote yourself in because you have to appeal to all stakeholders.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline wesphily

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Re: Disingenuous Delegates Deceit
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2014, 07:51:48 PM »
If only windows users were able to access the system. Seeing as microsoft is the most widely used OS, I'm sure once windows user can access bitshares x this will clear up. Till then, enjoy.

 

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