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Offline HackFisher

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PLS is the main token of the DAC, and chips are special assets issued by the games.

It is different from Bitshares market issued asset like BitUSD, also different from Bitshares user issued asset. There is an exchange model between PLS and chips, which is part the DAC consensus:

Every chip asset are created with some pls collateral recorded by the system, and a total supply. After created, the collateral pls amount will be frozen in the system balance.

The game itself is free to adjust its supply according to its own business model, but there will be a system convert price between the chip and pls, according to the pls collateral and chip supply:

1 chip = ( pls collateral amount / chip supply amount) * 1 pls

This means anyone can buy/sell (in other word create/destroy) chips according to the price of current block, the amount of pls used to buy chip will be added to that collateral of the chips, and new chips will increase the chips supply. In next block, there will be a new price, according to the updated pls collateral supply and chip supply.

In this way, the best games which are welcome will have more collateral, the best profitable game will have better chip prize increasing related to pls and thus other equity. The games with unrestrained dilution similar to Tencent's Q Coin is free and ok, but will have their price of potential drop down.

One more thing, every game want to use chips as their game tokens requires:
1. Provable total supply of the game tokens
2. One way of 1: 1 transfer between chips in Bitshares Play and their system, using cross chain or support system escrow. Or more easily, develop games inside Play Platform.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 12:34:34 AM by HackFisher »
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Bitshares Lotto, LTO and chips inner exchange model introduction.
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2014, 05:20:50 PM »
So it will be the casino for the casinos?
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Offline HackFisher

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Re: Bitshares Lotto, LTO and chips inner exchange model introduction.
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2014, 06:10:50 PM »
So it will be the casino for the casinos?

the platform for games, providing valuable token service, truly RNG service, etc.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 06:13:37 PM by HackFisher »
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Bitshares Lotto, LTO and chips inner exchange model introduction.
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2014, 07:24:10 PM »
Yhea and casinos can issue shares for there whole casino and trade/speculate on their own asset?!!
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Offline HackFisher

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Re: Bitshares Lotto, LTO and chips inner exchange model introduction.
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2014, 07:58:40 PM »
Yhea and casinos can issue shares for there whole casino and trade/speculate on their own asset?!!

hmm, yes in some sense.
game provider could issue init chips(they can choose they own part) provided collateral, and define the game rule.
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Offline bitmeat

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Re: Bitshares Lotto, LTO and chips inner exchange model introduction.
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2014, 10:10:22 PM »
You should consider implementing smart contracts, where game rules are programmatically defined and ran by off the chain smart oracles.

Offline HackFisher

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Re: Bitshares Lotto, LTO and chips inner exchange model introduction.
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2014, 10:30:23 PM »
You should consider implementing smart contracts, where game rules are programmatically defined and ran by off the chain smart oracles.

Yes, even though I didn't totally understand smart contract, but I did have the idea to using script as the language to develop game rules, and notice that there are techs like codius, or etherum, keeping an eye on what we can learn from them, please enlighten me if you know what is valuable for us, or what we can to borrow from them.

But supporting this or allow 3rd to deploy games on our platform is at the end of my roadmap. We will have one without that first.
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Offline bitmeat

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Re: Bitshares Play, PLS and chips inner exchange model introduction.
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2014, 01:35:16 AM »
I think in your case you want to keep it simple. I am personally more interested in codium based solutions, but this will take a long time. You can keep an eye on those projects, and it may be possible down the road to do a hard fork, or just start a new DAC once it's clear how they work.

What I think is important is to create a platform, which will attract game developers. For that you need to make it possible to host a session and have the blockchain take care of the rest. Then game developers can define the rules for a game, and write the UI in HTML5/Javascript.

Offline HackFisher

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Re: Bitshares Play, PLS and chips inner exchange model introduction.
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2014, 01:52:31 AM »
I think in your case you want to keep it simple. I am personally more interested in codium based solutions, but this will take a long time. You can keep an eye on those projects, and it may be possible down the road to do a hard fork, or just start a new DAC once it's clear how they work.

What I think is important is to create a platform, which will attract game developers. For that you need to make it possible to host a session and have the blockchain take care of the rest. Then game developers can define the rules for a game, and write the UI in HTML5/Javascript.

Bitshare Play will not handle all the stuffs of a Game, but only the economic system of the game. The best way is that make our DAC a dependency of the Game, and have APIs can be called directly from the game, e.g read chain db data from our DAC, like buy chips, sell chips, withdraw, deposit, transfer etc. We are acting like a public ledger for specific game, our advantage is we have a shares collateral for their chip assets. If the game developer really confident in their game, that would be a good approach for them to integrate.
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Bitshares Play, PLS and chips inner exchange model introduction.
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2014, 06:47:28 AM »
Turing complete gaming? THAT would be awesome
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Offline luckybit

Re: Bitshares Lotto, LTO and chips inner exchange model introduction.
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2014, 04:20:27 PM »
You should consider implementing smart contracts, where game rules are programmatically defined and ran by off the chain smart oracles.
+5% +5% +5%
Brilliant.

Why not repurpose the delegate functionality as the oracles?
I think in your case you want to keep it simple. I am personally more interested in codium based solutions, but this will take a long time. You can keep an eye on those projects, and it may be possible down the road to do a hard fork, or just start a new DAC once it's clear how they work.

What I think is important is to create a platform, which will attract game developers. For that you need to make it possible to host a session and have the blockchain take care of the rest. Then game developers can define the rules for a game, and write the UI in HTML5/Javascript.

Why not just have a simple scripting layer via with an API? There are many ways to do smart contracts and to a certain extent Bitcoin itself can do it.

But if you want to do it with oracles I think this is a pretty good way to go about it:
https://github.com/orisi/wiki/wiki/Orisi-White-Paper
Just recreate the algorithms:
https://github.com/orisi/wiki/wiki/Mastering-Distributed-Oracles
Very easy Python code example.
https://github.com/orisi/wiki/wiki/How-to-create-a-contract
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boPW1FwNu4c

Building this functionality might take some developer time but since the designs are already out there it's easy. Just look at the algorithms code and port it to C++, then allow us to write simply Python scripts to act as contracts just as in the above example.

Ethereum is overly complicated because they are trying to do a generalized solution. Smart contracts are very simple to implement and Blackcoin has the functionality with BlackHalo. Bitshares toolkit has delegate functionality who can act as the distributed oracles in Bitshares Play.


Bitshare Play will not handle all the stuffs of a Game, but only the economic system of the game. The best way is that make our DAC a dependency of the Game, and have APIs can be called directly from the game, e.g read chain db data from our DAC, like buy chips, sell chips, withdraw, deposit, transfer etc. We are acting like a public ledger for specific game, our advantage is we have a shares collateral for their chip assets. If the game developer really confident in their game, that would be a good approach for them to integrate.
Bitshares play is an excellent name. Wise decision.

We definitely need an API to connect to. That will be the most important part. A developer who knows HTML5, Ruby, Python, Javascript, should be able to communicate with the API.

The rules of the game could be a contract and the contract could be stored on the blockchain itself but that could be a later release. How much developer time do you think it would take to implement smart contracts?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 04:39:36 PM by luckybit »
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Offline HackFisher

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Re: Bitshares Lotto, LTO and chips inner exchange model introduction.
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2014, 07:28:33 PM »
You should consider implementing smart contracts, where game rules are programmatically defined and ran by off the chain smart oracles.
+5% +5% +5%
Brilliant.

Why not repurpose the delegate functionality as the oracles?
I think in your case you want to keep it simple. I am personally more interested in codium based solutions, but this will take a long time. You can keep an eye on those projects, and it may be possible down the road to do a hard fork, or just start a new DAC once it's clear how they work.

What I think is important is to create a platform, which will attract game developers. For that you need to make it possible to host a session and have the blockchain take care of the rest. Then game developers can define the rules for a game, and write the UI in HTML5/Javascript.

Why not just have a simple scripting layer via with an API? There are many ways to do smart contracts and to a certain extent Bitcoin itself can do it.

But if you want to do it with oracles I think this is a pretty good way to go about it:
https://github.com/orisi/wiki/wiki/Orisi-White-Paper
Just recreate the algorithms:
https://github.com/orisi/wiki/wiki/Mastering-Distributed-Oracles
Very easy Python code example.
https://github.com/orisi/wiki/wiki/How-to-create-a-contract
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boPW1FwNu4c

Building this functionality might take some developer time but since the designs are already out there it's easy. Just look at the algorithms code and port it to C++, then allow us to write simply Python scripts to act as contracts just as in the above example.

Ethereum is overly complicated because they are trying to do a generalized solution. Smart contracts are very simple to implement and Blackcoin has the functionality with BlackHalo. Bitshares toolkit has delegate functionality who can act as the distributed oracles in Bitshares Play.


Bitshare Play will not handle all the stuffs of a Game, but only the economic system of the game. The best way is that make our DAC a dependency of the Game, and have APIs can be called directly from the game, e.g read chain db data from our DAC, like buy chips, sell chips, withdraw, deposit, transfer etc. We are acting like a public ledger for specific game, our advantage is we have a shares collateral for their chip assets. If the game developer really confident in their game, that would be a good approach for them to integrate.
Bitshares play is an excellent name. Wise decision.

We definitely need an API to connect to. That will be the most important part. A developer who knows HTML5, Ruby, Python, Javascript, should be able to communicate with the API.

The rules of the game could be a contract and the contract could be stored on the blockchain itself but that could be a later release. How much developer time do you think it would take to implement smart contracts?

Thank you for the materials, luckybit, I'll look into them recently.

I don't know how many developer time it will take before I totally understand them, but before that, Bitshares Play can still be launched first without them.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bitmeat

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Re: Bitshares Play, PLS and chips inner exchange model introduction.
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2014, 10:39:35 PM »
Thanks luckybit! Ethereum could make all this possible, but problem with Ethereum is the blockchain bloat. A lot of the decisions should be done off-the-chain. And smart oracles are a perfect fit for that. Then a game session only records the results at the end and simple script verifies that it is legit, but doesn't need to verify every player move, just the outcome of a game.

Offline HackFisher

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Re: Bitshares Play, PLS and chips inner exchange model introduction.
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2014, 11:32:40 PM »
Thanks luckybit! Ethereum could make all this possible, but problem with Ethereum is the blockchain bloat. A lot of the decisions should be done off-the-chain. And smart oracles are a perfect fit for that. Then a game session only records the results at the end and simple script verifies that it is legit, but doesn't need to verify every player move, just the outcome of a game.

Is there any solution or explain from Ethereum to resolve their chain bloat?
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline luckybit

Re: Bitshares Play, PLS and chips inner exchange model introduction.
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2014, 09:25:26 AM »
Thanks luckybit! Ethereum could make all this possible, but problem with Ethereum is the blockchain bloat. A lot of the decisions should be done off-the-chain. And smart oracles are a perfect fit for that. Then a game session only records the results at the end and simple script verifies that it is legit, but doesn't need to verify every player move, just the outcome of a game.

Is there any solution or explain from Ethereum to resolve their chain bloat?

Blockchain bloat has been solved. Just store it in the decentralized cloud (Storj or MaidSafe).
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