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Offline mczarnek

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Nxt and Bitshares Advantages of each
« on: August 24, 2014, 04:10:51 AM »

We've had some people trying to post to the nxtforum.org to start a NXT vs Bitshares discussion (https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/open-invitation-to-the-nxt-community!/).  Figured I'd post back here and get one going here as well.  Meant to be friendly and make sure you guys are aware of what's going on in the Nxt community as BTSX and Nxt are the most promising POS coins in my my opinion.

What do you guys think about Nxt vs BitShares?

Bitshares advantages:
-Shorting with collateral, which is a nice addition to AE.
-DPOS
-Faster confirmations
-Titan addresses somehow adds privacy? Could someone explain?
-Probably better marketing team.. Nxt Organization has just started and is trying to change that, but it's going to be a little bit

Nxt advantages:
-Also has an Asset Exchange.  Cheaper to issue an asset, cheap enough that anyone can use it.
-More decentralized.. any who wants to can forge.  Via leased forging you can even just buy some Nxt to lease to a forger.. similar to DPOS's voting system but less likely to become as centralized and anyone who wants can still forge
- Arbitrary messaging
- A decentralized marketplace
- A decentralized exchange(multi-gateway).. your BTC might even potentially get robbed if robber can hack 2 out of 3 separate high-security servers but you will not lose your Nxt via the Multi-Gateway since you trade directly from your wallet.
- I'm in charge of implementing even faster and more decentralized confirmations in Nxt than BTSX has. Coming in a few months.
- Has a blockchain explorer.. which seems pretty basic, amazed you don't have anything nearly as nice as nxtexplorer.com or https://nxtblocks.info/
- Multiple wallets  Wesley's wallet, offspring, Human Fractal's wallet, mynxt.info
- nxtad.net allows anyone out their to advertise using Nxt as their crypto currency
-Alias system.. Bitshares might have this one too?
-You can pay your credit card bill using Nxt
-Many more developers, at least a dozen currently interviewing and just in general has more of the basics implemented.
-Traded on more exchanges

Clearly my money is mostly on Nxt and I know it much better.. so what am I missing that I can add under BitShare advantages?  Any of this stuff that Nxt already implements that BTSX does too? You guys have DACs out yet?

You guys all agree that BTSX is currently in a bubble?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 10:42:13 PM by mczarnek »

Offline Btc38

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Re: Nxt vs Bitshares
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2014, 04:14:16 AM »
 :) BTSX has very big chinese market than nxt
BTC38: One step a footprint is true

Offline bytemaster

Re: Nxt vs Bitshares
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2014, 04:15:22 AM »
Quote
-More decentralized.. any who wants to can forge.  Via leased forging you can even just buy some Nxt to lease to a forger.. similar to DPOS's voting system but less likely to become as centralized and anyone who wants can still forge

This is not an advantage of Nxt... BitShares is more decentralized.  While any one "can forge", anyone below a certain percentage ownership cannot do so profitably.  Also the marginal utility argument of adding additional forgers shows there is a limit where additional decentralization costs more than the value it provides.   With BitShares everyone has a say proportional to their stake....

I think at the end of the day Nxt turns into DPOS via leased forging with a different voting algorithm and that is it.

For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

bitbro

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Re: Nxt vs Bitshares
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2014, 04:16:52 AM »
BM just whooped nxt, better sell and get some Bts


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Offline bytemaster

Re: Nxt vs Bitshares
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2014, 04:21:03 AM »
Nxt has more infrastructure today mostly because it has been out longer.   Most of the advantages listed in the Nxt list are temporary and BTSX will quickly reach parity.  Other advantages listed are "future", ie taking credit for planned upgrades without giving BTSX credit for our own planned upgrades. 

Nxt has a lot going for it.  I welcome the competition, the market is big enough for both of us.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline tonyk

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Re: Nxt vs Bitshares
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2014, 04:24:04 AM »
Guys be supportive, please!

That's  if you expect the same from them!


'mczarnek',  I for one, am ready to hear your points (although, I spent equal time there, so I know most of the claims.)


BM just whooped nxt, better sell and get some Bts


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This is a delayed message for me, as I did so about a month ago.

That being said if BTS was not  ever in existence, NXT would have been the best thing around.  justmyHO.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 04:34:53 AM by TheOnion »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

bitbro

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Nxt vs Bitshares
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2014, 04:26:51 AM »
unfortunately for nxt supporters, they have mistaken flash for fire, luckily there is time to move to Bts


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Offline mczarnek

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Re: Nxt vs Bitshares
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2014, 04:41:47 AM »
Nxt has more infrastructure today mostly because it has been out longer.   Most of the advantages listed in the Nxt list are temporary and BTSX will quickly reach parity.  Other advantages listed are "future", ie taking credit for planned upgrades without giving BTSX credit for our own planned upgrades. 

Nxt has a lot going for it.  I welcome the competition, the market is big enough for both of us.

I agree, both will continue to grow with time.  I'd like to think that by the time BitShares reaches parity with the current version, Nxt will also have more features by that point and Bitshares will be playing catch up for a long time to come.

That's fair, I removed future advantages for Nxt.  Except instant transactions because it's my own pet project :)

Quote
-More decentralized.. any who wants to can forge.  Via leased forging you can even just buy some Nxt to lease to a forger.. similar to DPOS's voting system but less likely to become as centralized and anyone who wants can still forge

This is not an advantage of Nxt... BitShares is more decentralized.  While any one "can forge", anyone below a certain percentage ownership cannot do so profitably.  Also the marginal utility argument of adding additional forgers shows there is a limit where additional decentralization costs more than the value it provides.   With BitShares everyone has a say proportional to their stake....

I think at the end of the day Nxt turns into DPOS via leased forging with a different voting algorithm and that is it.



Yes.. but they can lease their forging power to someone else.  Same idea as voting for a delegate.

Also, when it only costs a few dollars a year to forge.. people are willing to do so without needing to be profitable, this isn't Bitcoin where you need heavy duty mining machines.  Even at far past Bitcoin's size, an average PC will be capable of just as much.

Why is DPOS superior?  As I understand it, it's because it allows faster transactions, right?  Well, let's just say if I were to explain my idea.. Bitshares would be the one switch over to Nxt's algorithm.  But still keeping it under wraps until ready to release :)

unfortunately for nxt supporters, they have mistaken flash for fire, luckily there is time to move to Bts

Why?  What big advantages does BTS have?

bitbro

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Nxt vs Bitshares
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2014, 04:50:07 AM »
Nxt has more infrastructure today mostly because it has been out longer.   Most of the advantages listed in the Nxt list are temporary and BTSX will quickly reach parity.  Other advantages listed are "future", ie taking credit for planned upgrades without giving BTSX credit for our own planned upgrades. 

Nxt has a lot going for it.  I welcome the competition, the market is big enough for both of us.

I agree, both will continue to grow with time.  I'd like to think that by the time BitShares reaches parity with the current version, Nxt will also have more features by that point and Bitshares will be playing catch up for a long time to come.

That's fair, I removed future advantages for Nxt.  Except instant transactions because it's my own pet project :)

Quote
-More decentralized.. any who wants to can forge.  Via leased forging you can even just buy some Nxt to lease to a forger.. similar to DPOS's voting system but less likely to become as centralized and anyone who wants can still forge

This is not an advantage of Nxt... BitShares is more decentralized.  While any one "can forge", anyone below a certain percentage ownership cannot do so profitably.  Also the marginal utility argument of adding additional forgers shows there is a limit where additional decentralization costs more than the value it provides.   With BitShares everyone has a say proportional to their stake....

I think at the end of the day Nxt turns into DPOS via leased forging with a different voting algorithm and that is it.



Yes.. but they can lease their forging power to someone else.  Same idea as voting for a delegate.

Also, when it only costs a few dollars a year to forge.. people are willing to do so without needing to be profitable, this isn't Bitcoin where you need heavy duty mining machines.  Even at far past Bitcoin's size, an average PC will be capable of just as much.

Why is DPOS superior?  As I understand it, it's because it allows faster transactions, right?  Well, let's just say if I were to explain my idea.. Bitshares would be the one switch over to Nxt's algorithm.  But still keeping it under wraps until ready to release :)

unfortunately for nxt supporters, they have mistaken flash for fire, luckily there is time to move to Bts

Why?  What big advantages does BTS have?

If you can't see the future, then you should hedge your bets


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Offline johncitizen

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Re: Nxt vs Bitshares
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2014, 04:50:27 AM »
Im getting this as NXT advertising.

Somehow there are 5 points listed for BTSX advantages and 13 for NXT. Perhaps study and fully understand the technology before slinging material in the forums.

Nicely finished off with the bubble theory...




Offline yellowecho

Re: Nxt vs Bitshares
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2014, 04:50:37 AM »
I've made some quick comments on all your questions.  I think you should just download the BitsharesX client and give it a shot.. who knows, you may even like it!  :D


Nxt advantages:
-Also has an Asset Exchange.  Cheaper to issue an asset, cheap enough that anyone can use it.
The NXT asset exchange has user-issued assets not market-issued assets.  The difference is quite substantial.  BitsharesME can be done with a quick fork and do the same thing.
-More decentralized.. any who wants to can forge.  Via leased forging you can even just buy some Nxt to lease to a forger.. similar to DPOS's voting system but less likely to become as centralized and anyone who wants can still forge
While anyone can forge not everyone can do so profitably.  Also forging relies on stake size so when I used NXT I never even produced a block despite keeping it running for weeks at a time because large holders controlled the system.  That argument is also moot because anyone on BTSX can be a delegate too. 
- Arbitrary messaging
Coming soon and not too difficult.  BTSX already has memos.
- A decentralized marketplace
BTSX is a decentralized exchange.  NXT's marketplace just has user-issued assets.
- A decentralized exchange(multi-gateway).. your BTC might even potentially get robbed if robber can hack 2 out of 3 separate high-security servers but you will not lose your Nxt via the Multi-Gateway since you trade directly from your wallet.
Cool?
- I'm in charge of implementing even faster and more decentralized confirmations in Nxt than BTSX has. Coming in a few months.
Good NXT needs to catchup to BTSX speeds  :P
- Has a blockchain explorer.. which seems pretty basic, amazed you don't have anything nearly as nice as nxtexplorer.com or https://nxtblocks.info/
BTSX block explorer is built into the client which is nicer IMO.  You can also see which delegate approved it.
- Multiple wallets  Wesley's wallet, offspring, Human Fractal's wallet, mynxt.info
Cool I guess.  I like the BitsharesX wallet..it's very well designed and operates smoothly and stable.
- nxtad.net allows anyone out their to advertise using Nxt as their crypto currency
Cool I love ads!  Wait.. no I dont.  BitsharesX is a DAC and makes money through transaction fees without need for ads.
-We have a team working on Automated Transactions
Good job.
-Voting system coming soon
BitsharesX uses voting for all delegation and a dedicated voting DAC BitsharesVOTE just had a snapshot and will be released soon.
-Alias system.. Bitshares might have this one too?
Bitshares has registered accounts so any transaction can be done with a name and optional memo instead of addresses.
-You can pay your credit card bill using Nxt
You could pay off your credit card with BTSX recent gains  ;)
-Many more developers, at least a dozen currently interviewing and just in general has more of the basics implemented.
NXT, BitsharesX, Ethereum.. lots of great devs out there no doubt.
-Traded on more exchanges
Small volume on more exchanges.  Also BTSX is an exchange so when the internal asset market opens there will be less reliance on other exchanges which I think is a positive.
Clearly my money is mostly on Nxt and I know it much better.. so what am I missing that I can add under BitShare advantages?  Any of this stuff that Nxt already implements that BTSX does too? You guys have DACs out yet?
BTSX has market-issued assets with a market pegged prediction market so there's that.  BTSX is a DAC with several more Bitshares DACs coming out very soon.
You guys all agree that BTSX is currently in a bubble?
No.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 04:54:17 AM by yellowecho »
696c6f766562726f776e696573

Offline toast

Re: Nxt vs Bitshares
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2014, 04:51:35 AM »
Quote
-Alias system.. Bitshares might have this one too?

Default mode of operation is using named stealth addresses for transfers
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Nxt vs Bitshares
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2014, 04:53:03 AM »
DPOS security in 5 seconds is better than NXT security in 10 minutes. 

Bitshares community is better than Nxt community because we don't develop in secret like you are doing.   I am sure you have your reasons, but your claims cannot be challenged nor debated fairly so long as they are secret. 

I consider C++ better than Java in the long-run. 
I consider BitShares more scalable at VISA levels.... home computers won't be able to forge at VISA bandwidth requirements.   



For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

bitbro

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Re: Nxt vs Bitshares
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2014, 04:53:40 AM »
We don't have any more time for nxt here.  Read BM's latest blog post on letstalkbitcoin and learn about Bts>nxt, Bts>btc


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Offline tonyk

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Re: Nxt vs Bitshares
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2014, 04:57:36 AM »
We don't have any more time for nxt here.  Read BM's latest blog post on letstalkbitcoin and learn about Bts>nxt, Bts>btc


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We, do ...

we need everybody aboard...
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

 

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