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Offline profitofthegods

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I think Delegates Need to Do This
« on: August 27, 2014, 04:45:08 PM »

I have come to the conclusion that BitUSD and other asset will not reach parity with the underlying asset they are supposed to be pegged to for a very long time.

There are two main reasons for this; the first is because most of the people trading on Bitshares are big Bitshares fans who are overly bullish on BTSX. The second is because there is no good reason to buy BitUSD at the moment.

Let me put it another way - if you think that the price of BTSX is going to go up, you are incentivized to short USD. If you think the price of BTSX is going to go down then there is no reason to buy BitUSD instead of just selling BTSX for BTC or something else.

Arbitrage doesn't work, because performing arbitrage is a bet that the market will return to the peg, but if these bets themselves are the only reason for this to happen, then its a foolish bet.

At the moment there is demand for shorts, but no demand for buying BitAssets. Perhaps the 5% would change this, otherwise the only thing would be mass adoption of BitUSD for paying for things, which probably isn't going to happen until after the peg is proven so isn't much help in this regard.

If the 5% thing is coming along soon then perhaps this post is irrelevant, but until then I think delegates need to step up to the plate and start buying BitUSD. Its my understanding that delegates are earning quite well now, but I haven't seen what they are spending this money on to support Bitshares, which is supposed to be what they do rather than just keeping all the pay for themselves.

Please - calling all delegates - step up to the plate and bet on the market peg working by spending part of your pay on BitUSD whenever it is more than perhaps 1-2% below the value of USD, because you are probably the only ones with the resources and motivation to do it.

Offline bytemaster

Re: I think Delegates Need to Do This
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2014, 04:52:31 PM »
The discount is effectively defining the interest rate based upon the market expectation of 2 things:

1) how long it will take to reach parity
2) how far it is from parity today.

You can trade BitUSD vs BTSX so long as you factor in those two things into the BitUSD price. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline profitofthegods

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Re: I think Delegates Need to Do This
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2014, 04:59:50 PM »
The discount is effectively defining the interest rate based upon the market expectation of 2 things:

1) how long it will take to reach parity
2) how far it is from parity today.

You can trade BitUSD vs BTSX so long as you factor in those two things into the BitUSD price.

You can, but why would you?

Offline GaltReport

Re: I think Delegates Need to Do This
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2014, 05:05:06 PM »
I liked  the point BM made in another post  that you can buy BitUSD  cheap and sell  it  cheap.  For me this means when I  take into consideration how much I paid for  it, selling it at a similar discount is not so  bad!

Also, as a delegate I am operating at a loss but hope to break even soon.  Partly because i am probably using a too high end server  but I'd rather do  that then miss blocks!  I don't  think there are any wealthy elites yet from being a delegate.  Kinda hard work actually keeping up with the  releases  and not missing blocks.

Offline profitofthegods

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Re: I think Delegates Need to Do This
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2014, 05:13:15 PM »
I liked  the point BM made in another post  that you can buy BitUSD  cheap and sell  it  cheap.  For me this means when I  take into consideration how much I paid for  it, selling it at a similar discount is not so  bad!

Also, as a delegate I am operating at a loss but hope to break even soon.  Partly because i am probably using a too high end server  but I'd rather do  that then miss blocks!  I don't  think there are any wealthy elites yet from being a delegate.  Kinda hard work actually keeping up with the  releases  and not missing blocks.

Yes, you can buy it cheap and then sell it cheap but still for a profit. But there is still an inequality of opportunities which is causing the price inequality:

If you have BTSX and you want to bet on BTSX going up then you only have one option: Short a BitAsset.

If you have BTSX and you want to bet on BTSX going down, then you don't just have the one option of buying BitUSD, you can also sell for BTC - which for many people will be a better option.

Because of this the price of BitUSD will not reach parity with USD, which is not good for the success of Bitshares.

I didn't mean to suggest you were a super rich elite who is sitting on your arses doing nothing, so I'm sorry if that's how it came across. I just saw someone else post that delegates were making something like $125 per month before BitAsset trading even started. Also if delegates are keeping all the money and not spending it on doing things to help Bitshares, then I don't think many people will choose to get involved in a system like that over something which shares the money out to everyone who has coins (ala NXT) or anyone who sets up a node (ala Crypti), because if its a choice between me having money and someone else having money, and everything else is equal, I'm always going to choose to have the money myself.

Offline JakeThePanda

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Re: I think Delegates Need to Do This
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2014, 05:18:38 PM »
I didn't mean to suggest you were a super rich elite who is sitting on your arses doing nothing, so I'm sorry if that's how it came across. I just saw someone else post that delegates were making something like $125 per month before BitAsset trading even started. Also if delegates are keeping all the money and not spending it on doing things to help Bitshares, then I don't think many people will choose to get involved in a system like that over something which shares the money out to everyone who has coins (ala NXT) or anyone who sets up a node (ala Crypti), because if its a choice between me having money and someone else having money, and everything else is equal, I'm always going to choose to have the money myself.

Yeah, you are who I thought you were.

Bitshares does share the money out to everyone.  As the Bitshares supply lowers, your % of the total outstanding shares increases.  Check the daily burn stat.

Offline GaltReport

Re: I think Delegates Need to Do This
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2014, 05:23:59 PM »
I liked  the point BM made in another post  that you can buy BitUSD  cheap and sell  it  cheap.  For me this means when I  take into consideration how much I paid for  it, selling it at a similar discount is not so  bad!

Also, as a delegate I am operating at a loss but hope to break even soon.  Partly because i am probably using a too high end server  but I'd rather do  that then miss blocks!  I don't  think there are any wealthy elites yet from being a delegate.  Kinda hard work actually keeping up with the  releases  and not missing blocks.

Yes, you can buy it cheap and then sell it cheap but still for a profit. But there is still an inequality of opportunities which is causing the price inequality:

If you have BTSX and you want to bet on BTSX going up then you only have one option: Short a BitAsset.

If you have BTSX and you want to bet on BTSX going down, then you don't just have the one option of buying BitUSD, you can also sell for BTC - which for many people will be a better option.

Because of this the price of BitUSD will not reach parity with USD, which is not good for the success of Bitshares.

I didn't mean to suggest you were a super rich elite who is sitting on your arses doing nothing, so I'm sorry if that's how it came across. I just saw someone else post that delegates were making something like $125 per month before BitAsset trading even started. Also if delegates are keeping all the money and not spending it on doing things to help Bitshares, then I don't think many people will choose to get involved in a system like that over something which shares the money out to everyone who has coins (ala NXT) or anyone who sets up a node (ala Crypti), because if its a choice between me having money and someone else having money, and everything else is equal, I'm always going to choose to have the money myself.

I think  the $125/month was based on  someone keeping 100% of the fees, many of whom are not.  Everyone's goal is different.  I will be satisfied to break even and help the system.  If I make a bit more to use for BitShares that's even better.  I think your question may apply at  some point to SOME delegates but it's still very early.

« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 05:26:16 PM by GaltReport »

Offline profitofthegods

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Re: I think Delegates Need to Do This
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2014, 05:33:55 PM »
I didn't mean to suggest you were a super rich elite who is sitting on your arses doing nothing, so I'm sorry if that's how it came across. I just saw someone else post that delegates were making something like $125 per month before BitAsset trading even started. Also if delegates are keeping all the money and not spending it on doing things to help Bitshares, then I don't think many people will choose to get involved in a system like that over something which shares the money out to everyone who has coins (ala NXT) or anyone who sets up a node (ala Crypti), because if its a choice between me having money and someone else having money, and everything else is equal, I'm always going to choose to have the money myself.

Yeah, you are who I thought you were.

Bitshares does share the money out to everyone.  As the Bitshares supply lowers, your % of the total outstanding shares increases.  Check the daily burn stat.

Sorry, who do you think I am?

Also I am aware how it works, and I have looked through the delegates to see the payrates, which I think average out at around 80%.

Offline ripplexiaoshan

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Re: I think Delegates Need to Do This
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2014, 06:56:51 PM »
I didn't mean to suggest you were a super rich elite who is sitting on your arses doing nothing, so I'm sorry if that's how it came across. I just saw someone else post that delegates were making something like $125 per month before BitAsset trading even started. Also if delegates are keeping all the money and not spending it on doing things to help Bitshares, then I don't think many people will choose to get involved in a system like that over something which shares the money out to everyone who has coins (ala NXT) or anyone who sets up a node (ala Crypti), because if its a choice between me having money and someone else having money, and everything else is equal, I'm always going to choose to have the money myself.

Yeah, you are who I thought you were.

Bitshares does share the money out to everyone.  As the Bitshares supply lowers, your % of the total outstanding shares increases.  Check the daily burn stat.

Sorry, who do you think I am?

Also I am aware how it works, and I have looked through the delegates to see the payrates, which I think average out at around 80%.

Well, market talks itself. Delegates are not responsible for the pegging. If the whole market pegging mechanism doesn't work, delegates can not save it no matter how much of their income are invested to buy bitUSD.
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