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Offline together

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Fundamental Questions regarding bitsharesx
« on: August 27, 2014, 06:38:45 PM »

Hi everyone,
I have some questions regarding the bitsharesx, I'm new to the cryptomarkets but not to financial markets in general.
how did the 20 billion initial coins get allocated?
are btsx in anyway pegged to btcoin.
can you buy assets on margin? as in getting leverage?
what does user generated non pegged assets mean? does it mean that I can make up any fake stock and try to sell it?
I hear that there will be a direct USD/bitusd asset traded in the exchanges, does that mean that people can bypass buying btsx to buy bitshares? if so what would constitute the intrinsic value of bitsx?
what are these assets LAB:BTSX FREE:BTSX LOVE:BTSX
Thank you
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 06:42:54 PM by together »

Offline robrigo

Re: Fundamental Questions regarding bitsharesx
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2014, 07:20:18 PM »
Hey together,

Here is a good resource for this info: http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Bitshares_X

But to give you some basic answers:

1) Initial alloc. was 50% / 50% based on PTS and AGS holders. PTS (BitShares Protoshares) is a minable PoW coin and AGS is basically a donor list from the AngelShares crowdfunding campaign. One is liquid and the other is illiquid.

2) BTSX aren't pegged to BTC. But there should be bitBTC available on the BitSharesX market as soon as enough delegates publish feeds, which would be collateralized by BTSX.

3) In response to buying assets on margin, I think this is the inverse of what shorting bitUSD does? As that is selling assets on a margin... but don't quote me on that, I am learning about markets and economics everyday. So my unofficial answer to your question is no.

4) Non pegged assets sound like what other decentralized exchanges may offer today, such as the NXT marketplace. They are user issued and thus you have to trust the user to back the value. Market pegged polymorphic digital assets like bitUSD / bitBTC / bitCNY are different because the value is determined by a consensus of the participants in each market rather than a user.

5) You can trade USD -> BITUSD here: https://bter.com/trade/bitusd_usd

6) Users can create assets on the market but the cost is expensive. Another DAC is planned to handle user created assets for much less cost, called BitShares ME.

So FREE, LOVE, LAB are all user created market assets. They won't be tradeable until at least 50 delegates publish feeds for them and the required market depth is reached, I believe.

Offline theoretical

Re: Fundamental Questions regarding bitsharesx
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2014, 09:06:22 PM »

> I hear that there will be a direct USD/bitusd asset traded in the exchanges

"Will be?"  There is already: https://bter.com/trade/BITUSD_USD https://bter.com/trade/BTSX_BTC

> does that mean that people can bypass buying btsx to buy bitshares?

You can buy BitUSD on bter at the above links with Bitcoin or real dollars, no need to go through BTSX.  (Not sure how you get real dollars on bter.)

> if so what would constitute the intrinsic value of btsx?

All the BitUSD sold on third-party exchanges was originally created by a short sale in the on-chain market.  Basically, people want BitUSD, and the only way to create BitUSD is to use BTSX to short BitUSD in the on-chain market.
BTS- theoretical / PTS- PZxpdC8RqWsdU3pVJeobZY7JFKVPfNpy5z / BTC- 1NfGejohzoVGffAD1CnCRgo9vApjCU2viY / the delegate formerly known as drltc / Nothing said on these forums is intended to be legally binding / All opinions are my own unless otherwise noted / Take action due to my posts at your own risk

Offline szert

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Re: Fundamental Questions regarding bitsharesx
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2014, 04:21:14 AM »
how did the 20 billion initial coins get allocated?

Great question, I was looking for the initial allocation too. Where did you find that 20 billion initial coin info? According to the market cap data (http://coinmarketcap.com/) there are only 1,999,992,536 coins.

1) Initial alloc. was 50% / 50% based on PTS and AGS holders. PTS (BitShares Protoshares) is a minable PoW coin and AGS is basically a donor list from the AngelShares crowdfunding campaign. One is liquid and the other is illiquid.
Thanks for it, great and simple explanation of PTS/AGS, i was confused with it.

How many coins has been distributed 50%-50% ?
Have been any assets allocated/issued apart from those for the PTS/AGS?
Initial allocation via PTS/AGS just raises more questions. Is there any info about how the PTS/AGS has been initially allocated?

Is there any way to issue new BTSX assets? If so then who could do that and how?

Thanks!

Offline robrigo

Re: Fundamental Questions regarding bitsharesx
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2014, 04:29:50 AM »
Here's the official page on PTS / AGS: http://bitshares.org/resources/ags-pts/

Community wiki page: http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Getting_a_stake

There has been a few DACs now that honor PTS. Another one is LottoShares. The DNS / VOTE DAC snapshot of the PTS chain was also taken just a week ago at August 21 23:59:59 PM UTC.

Users can create new assets in BitSharesX but the price is steep to do so as they are encourged to be more serious assets. There is a platform called BitShares ME that intends to fill the user issued assets demand at a lower rate than BTSX.

Offline szert

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Re: Fundamental Questions regarding bitsharesx
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2014, 05:01:05 AM »
Here's the official page on PTS / AGS: http://bitshares.org/resources/ags-pts/

Community wiki page: http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Getting_a_stake

There has been a few DACs now that honor PTS. Another one is LottoShares. The DNS / VOTE DAC snapshot of the PTS chain was also taken just a week ago at August 21 23:59:59 PM UTC.
Thank you! I will look into that. Basically I'm just trying to understand how big stake I buy with 1 BTSX...

Users can create new assets in BitSharesX but the price is steep to do so as they are encourged to be more serious assets. There is a platform called BitShares ME that intends to fill the user issued assets demand at a lower rate than BTSX.
My question was specifically about BTSX shares/assets and not about generic BitShareX assets.
Is there any way to issue new BTSX shares?
I'm asking because I've just seen the function in the client for the user created assets ("Issue new assets of an asset type you control.").

Offline robrigo

Re: Fundamental Questions regarding bitsharesx
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2014, 05:07:18 AM »
Here's the official page on PTS / AGS: http://bitshares.org/resources/ags-pts/

Community wiki page: http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Getting_a_stake

There has been a few DACs now that honor PTS. Another one is LottoShares. The DNS / VOTE DAC snapshot of the PTS chain was also taken just a week ago at August 21 23:59:59 PM UTC.
Thank you! I will look into that. Basically I'm just trying to understand how big stake I buy with 1 BTSX...

Users can create new assets in BitSharesX but the price is steep to do so as they are encourged to be more serious assets. There is a platform called BitShares ME that intends to fill the user issued assets demand at a lower rate than BTSX.
My question was specifically about BTSX shares/assets and not about generic BitShareX assets.
Is there any way to issue new BTSX shares?
I'm asking because I've just seen the function in the client for the user created assets ("Issue new assets of an asset type you control.").

No problem. The number of shares is less than 2 bn because BitSharesX is a DAC, and DACs are deflationary by design to pay out "dividends" to stakeholders. Elected delegates in the system are capable of setting their pay rate to burn rate ratio. Pay rate is the % of transaction fees paid to the delegate, and burn rate are the % of fees destroyed, deflating the supply of BTSX and thus increasing the buying power. Delegates can campaign for votes on the basis of their ratio (i.e. spending their pay rate in a certain manner such as charity, marketing, development, etc. or also campaign on the basis of paying more dividends to stakeholders by burning).

In this manner the amount of BTSX should not ever increase.

The user created assets are for listing polymorphic digital assets on the BitSharesX exchange that are market pegged to an asset, where the price is decided on by market consensus.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 05:08:51 AM by robrigo »

Offline theoretical

Re: Fundamental Questions regarding bitsharesx
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2014, 11:27:51 PM »
My question was specifically about BTSX shares/assets and not about generic BitShareX assets.
Is there any way to issue new BTSX shares?

No.

There were originally 2,000,000,000 BTSX in existence, however some of the transaction fees in each block are permanently destroyed (I think at least 50%).  When BTSX are destroyed, everyone's holdings increase in value a little bit.  In the genesis block, 1 BTSX was exactly 500 trillionths of all the BTSX that exist.  Now 1 BTSX is 500.01794 trillionths of all the BTSX that exist.

Another way you can think of it is that the miner rewards for Bitcoin are paid to miners by everyone holding Bitcoin, and Bitcoin itself will be "operating at a loss" until new BTC stops being printed in the year 2140 or so.

BTSX on the other hand pays part of the transaction fees to delegates, and part to everyone holding BTSX.  Thus BTSX has been "operating at a profit" since the genesis block!

I'm asking because I've just seen the function in the client for the user created assets ("Issue new assets of an asset type you control.").

Assets in the system other than BTSX have their own rules for how they are created or destroyed.  User created assets allow anyone to print their own type of coin which they can give away to anyone they want.  Market-based assets like BitUSD are printed by shorting, and in order to short you need real BTSX as collateral.
BTS- theoretical / PTS- PZxpdC8RqWsdU3pVJeobZY7JFKVPfNpy5z / BTC- 1NfGejohzoVGffAD1CnCRgo9vApjCU2viY / the delegate formerly known as drltc / Nothing said on these forums is intended to be legally binding / All opinions are my own unless otherwise noted / Take action due to my posts at your own risk

 

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