Author Topic: Litecoin Sharedrop Fork  (Read 11740 times)

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Offline fuzzy


Lol, upvote the strawman anti-charles opinion. You guys are funny.

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Oh he will be relevant when Ethereum waits for all the crypto 2.0 out there to fund the technical leg work while they purchase political connections (that give them King-Making power) with their 25 Million USD from their "Non-IPO" through Switzerland.  It is just too rich man....

NSA is what I think, but who knows...he sure isn't saying.

Let's stop talking about overreactive Amygdala's (the fear center of the brain) and lets get rid of the NSA statement for the moment.  First this is not about me (I am a self-professed Libertarian (if we must abide by labels) and nothing close to what is called, today, a "conservative" or "democrat" in case it is that important). 

Let's talk about what Ethereum is doing and why good ol' Charles is here.  Hint...it is not to help us, but to get us to run experiments for him so "his" team doesn't have to later take the risk with their own "non-IPO" money. 

Bitcoin is what they want to displace as number 1, so watching how something like this works with bitshares as a test case--with Litecoin--is the point we need to get back to. 

I am actually really into the idea of sharedropping superior products on cult members who own coins that are going, literally, nowhere with regard to actual value (think Dogeparty).  Why?  Because it shows users very quickly what they failed to see before they had a stake in a better project.  Ethereum is not even a product...but a dream with lots of money to buy the innovative devs in the space.  It is a psychological trick...make the devs of ethereum look like they are the most brilliant and coolest nerds on the block so everyone wants to fight each other to be part of the clique.

I am for one don't like feeling like I have to bring up difficult questions about Charles.  But I don't trust him.  Period.  I hope he proves me wrong and builds a Utopia where everyone is a sovereign with privacy and an overabundance of all necessities in life...but Charles is a Salesman who never directly answers the most important questions (note he didn't answer any of the questions I asked and instead chose to attempt to deface my argument that he could be an agent working to coopt the crypto-movement). 

I do not look for boogeymen everywhere, but it is absolutely insane that most of the cryptocommunity fails to recognize that the very institutions Crypto was meant to free us from will not just simply say "oh well...I guess we lose".  No, this to them is a war against the lemmings...the plebs for whom bread and circuses is enough to pacify.  The Amygdala is a part of the brain that is meant to help us quickly react to POTENTIAL danger before we have a chance to reason those dangers away.  Please tell me what Charles has given any of you that gives you a real argument for reasoning this away. 

This is not to sew seeds of hatred toward all the no-doubt wonderful and idealistic people playing with the idea (that is all there currently is--that and a lot of money) of Ethereum.  And I don't hate Charles!  I actually want him to prove me wrong so I can move on and not feel concerned over his motives!  Let us remember, Charles professes to want Ether to be the "oil to bitcoin's gold" or, in other words, the crypto version of the Petro Dollar--The World's Reserve Currency for the past 100+ years.  They want to create a completely new programming language (how many backdoors do you suppose it will have?) which means that all forks/clones could still have security flaws inherent in them and, as such, forking or cloning would do nothing to fix the dangers it represents. 

It is being said because I personally feel it is important to put my opinion on the subject out there as a constant reminder to everyone it is precisely our willful ignorance to the very real dangers of this world that largely account for why bad things happen to good people.  Why? Because good people tend to project their own intentions onto others, believing that if they are open, loving and helpful people that anyone who smiles at them is as benevolent as they are. Some of those people who smile back (approximately 1%) are psychopaths (http://news.uchicago.edu/article/2013/04/24/psychopaths-are-not-neurally-equipped-have-concern-others).

Charles.  If you are a legit guy who is really working hard to make the world a better place for my baby, I hope you will take my sincere apologies for being so hard on you.   

Eagleeye is very correct on a few things he says about this being "war" of sorts.  Although we can be altruistic and want to fix all the problems of the world together, we shouldn't forget that many people out there do consider this war.  This is always true in business and economics
Very worthwhile book (and apparently a free audio book version is available! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L03BHTlRfXg
« Last Edit: September 03, 2014, 08:16:51 am by theFuzz »
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Offline CoinHoarder

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I can tell you with 100% certainty that the Litecoin community views any innovation that doesn't help with improving the ease of use of Litecoin to be an unneeded gimmick, built to feed the appetite of crypto nerds, and any cryptocurrency with them will never achieve mass adoption because they are too complicated. I've heard them call any new features.. no matter how innovative... gimmicks, whiz bang features, shiny new balls, gizmos, doodads, gadgets, crypto feature circle jerks... I'm probably missing a few.  :D

That is why I am starting to get involved with cryptocoin 2.0 projects and leaving Bitcoin/Litecoin behind. The cryptocoin 2.0s are the ones that are truly pushing cryptocurrency technology forward. The big 2 cryptocurrencies' development has somewhat halted due to lack of development funds, too many opposing opinions (think congress.. democrats vs republicans,) and the majority thinking they are perfect just the way they are.

In summary, on top of it being a poor business decision for Bitshares, they wouldn't be interested in it anyways.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2014, 07:01:55 am by CoinHoarder »
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charleshoskinson

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I felt the explanation in the paper was solid. Basically as good as any textbook and it's free to read. Principles of transaction oriented database recovery if anyone isninterested.

charleshoskinson

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To be fair I recall it being a question asking what are atomic transactions in relation to databases and I cited the ACID paper. That's like citing Dr. Codd's paper when talking about RDMSs

Offline jae208

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If anyone has has read any of my previous posts you can clearly see that I don't lean conservative.
(FYI I think I lean more libertarian, I guess, I don't like labels) 

I read an article once about a study in the difference between "conservative" and "liberal" brains and what stood out to
me was that conservatives have greater activity in the amygdala which means that they are always looking for danger and tend to have a more paranoid mentality. (liberals had higher openness to experience and didn't have as active of an amygdala) Neither is necessarily better than the other as they both serve important roles in society. Although, sometimes I truly wish that the more  radical conservative side would open their eyes to science and accept that the world was not created by some bearded white dude in the sky (from the middle east?) 6,000 years ago. Or the fact that global warming (climate change is the same thing) does indeed exist and it isn't about some elites trying to just tax us.

I bring this up because although I do think that there are people out there that try to control entire nations whether through monetary policy or NSA, I really don't think that the people at the top have sufficient brain power or enough attention span to be one step ahead of us. At least not at all times. In other words I don't think that Charles is some Illuminati puppet or something like that, sent here to manipulate us. For instance, I do honestly think that he has the drive and the people skills necessary to cozy up with mainstream media and use them to spread his message and this isn't the result of his elite friends.

« Last Edit: September 03, 2014, 04:48:06 am by jae208 »
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charleshoskinson

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Oh he will be relevant when Ethereum waits for all the crypto 2.0 out there to fund the technical leg work while they purchase political connections (that give them King-Making power) with their 25 Million USD from their "Non-IPO" through Switzerland.  It is just too rich man....

NSA is what I think, but who knows...he sure isn't saying.

The NSA is a signals intelligence agency. You should be barking up a broader mandated agency like CIA's InQTel. Then at least the conspiracy theory fits.

Offline fuzzy


Lol, upvote the strawman anti-charles opinion. You guys are funny.

Get relevant


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Oh he will be relevant when Ethereum waits for all the crypto 2.0 out there to fund the technical leg work while they purchase political connections (that give them King-Making power) with their 25 Million USD from their "Non-IPO" through Switzerland.  It is just too rich man....

NSA is what I think, but who knows...he sure isn't saying.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2014, 11:32:33 am by theFuzz »
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Offline tonyk

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Lol, upvote the strawman anti-charles opinion. You guys are funny.
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LOL, the best post per letter, ever!  +5%
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

bitbro

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Lol, upvote the strawman anti-charles opinion. You guys are funny.

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charleshoskinson

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Lol, upvote the strawman anti-charles opinion. You guys are funny.

Offline James212

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All these coins are going to fail.  Bitshares being involved directly with any other coin besides BTSX and Bitshares ME is not a good idea.  There will be only a handful of coins that retain any meaningful value.   Why dilute the brand at this point just to see something go up and back down.

What I am confused is why Charles said we have "IPO in a Box" and therefore to not pursue Music/DNS aka "low hanging fruit".  Yet he loves the idea of yet another coin.  Charles, any way to clarify for us what you see in creating yet another coin that has same functionality of an existing coin ?

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Offline James212

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I'm not sure I see the point. Sure, we may get some new fans (Litecoin users), but wouldn't this just make competition for BitsharesX, and give Litecoin users a half stake in that competition for doing absolutely nothing? I don't think it would be fair to snapshot participants, or even people whom have bought since then.

Forking BitsharesX at this point before the user base is mature seems like shooting yourself in the foot, and would reduce liquidity on both centralized exchanges and in the bitasset marketplace.

On top of that, all of the Litecoin users could just dump on the market and it would be a risky investment for anyone that isn't a AGS/Protoshare/Litecoin investor. As it is now with BitsharesX, everyone has invested something to get their stake. Whether it be investing BTC/PTS in AGS, providing CPU processing power for (or investing in) PTS, or purchasing their BTSX on the free market, this all provides incentive for people not to dump BTSX on the market for less than what they put in and upholds the price. If you make a fork and give 50% of the money supply away for free, this incentive would not be as strong for the 50% who got it for free.

BitsharesX is too small right now to try to fork the the community IMO.

Did anyone read this? I feel like I had some good points... Replace Litecoin in the post with Bitcoin... Ripple.. Stellar... I still feel the same way. This is a business and creating competition for BitsharesX and giving a group of people equity for free is not a good idea at this time.

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Offline James212

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Charles -

If you say you will be leaving crypto, then leave crypto.

We don't need to your wonky, slanted, subversive outsider ideas here.  Get with the objectives or get lost.  Obviously this type of share drop code fork thing will happen.  However, coming from you, it's clear your ego problems are all over this.


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For everyone that doesn't remember, we are trying to start a company here.  We need to act accordingly.

Charles is a jaded scientist with no vested interest in our project.  Taking leadership from him would be counter productive.  I advise others to tell him to get lost just as the many projects in recent months have.


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« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 02:22:10 am by James212 »
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Offline fuzzy

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I 100% agree with you on this actually.  The only problem is that it fails to speak to the underlying point.  How does Charles find himself in all these different countries...roaming the world, making deals in Switzerland while "on vacation from crypto"?  Who funds his ventures? How does his pet project end up being promoted via video commercials on youtube before funding even began?  How does he so easily get onto mainstream media outlets to endorse said project (without even having a product) when most all other "coins" don't even make it onto the radar? 

Literally all these questions require answering.  Otherwise it is silly for Charles to think any action he wants to take to "help" the community will be trusted.  Trust is earned...

Hard work Fuz. A lot of hard work. Literally every day I'd get up at 6-7 AM and work until 11 at night sometimes even longer. Also leverage networks properly. This is one of my best talents and what's been missing from Bitshares since my departure in October. But don't worry Bitbrio will be here soon enough to discount my contributions :)

As for getting on TV, it's not hard if you have the right branding, marketing and time the news cycle. MSM wants to talk about high tech cool new stuff.

Can you answer these q's each individually?  I honestly would appreciate it. 
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charleshoskinson

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I 100% agree with you on this actually.  The only problem is that it fails to speak to the underlying point.  How does Charles find himself in all these different countries...roaming the world, making deals in Switzerland while "on vacation from crypto"?  Who funds his ventures? How does his pet project end up being promoted via video commercials on youtube before funding even began?  How does he so easily get onto mainstream media outlets to endorse said project (without even having a product) when most all other "coins" don't even make it onto the radar? 

Literally all these questions require answering.  Otherwise it is silly for Charles to think any action he wants to take to "help" the community will be trusted.  Trust is earned...

Hard work Fuz. A lot of hard work. Literally every day I'd get up at 6-7 AM and work until 11 at night sometimes even longer. Also leverage networks properly. This is one of my best talents and what's been missing from Bitshares since my departure in October. But don't worry Bitbrio will be here soon enough to discount my contributions :)

As for getting on TV, it's not hard if you have the right branding, marketing and time the news cycle. MSM wants to talk about high tech cool new stuff.