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Offline bytemaster

BTS Wallet Best Practices and Danger Areas
« on: September 01, 2014, 07:21:19 PM »

Many users have been reporting bugs where balances appear to go missing or orders they cannot cancel.   We are working on solutions to increase the robustness of the wallet in all use cases, but for now most wallet problems are the result of the wallet being used in an "unsupported" manner. 

1) Do not use the same wallet on two computers.
  - If you do this the deterministic key generation will get out of sync.  This can result in missing balances and/or orders using the same key and thus difficult to cancel.  We are enhancing the wallet to be able to handle this more gracefully.   That said, one wallets will not be able to see the receiver of outgoing transactions sent from the other wallet.   

2) Do not attempt to restore from an "old backup"
 -  While technically the purpose of a backup is to prevent you from losing funds, the backups at this point in time are there to allow *future versions* to have a hope at recovering all of your funds.  Backups are generated automatically every time you upgrade the wallet.   When you upgrade only use the "most recent" backup.   Generally speaking you shouldn't ever have to dive into a backup file that is older than your last transaction.  While future versions may allow you to recover all of your funds, your transaction history may never quite recover all of the data you may want. 

3) Do not attempt to use more than one "account" per wallet if you want to be able to easily recover from a backup
  - Based upon the current wallet code, if you use more than one account and attempt to recover keys it will not be able to allocate market orders back to the original account.  You will be able to recover the funds/orders to one of your accounts but it may not be the same account as the original order.

Prior to version 0.4.10 of BTSX, the one time keys used to send funds to someone else were not deterministically generated.  If you attempt to recover from an old backup you will not be able to read the memo or destination account for these funds.  You will still see that it came out of your account.    0.4.10 and later generate the one time keys deterministically which will allow the wallet to brute force determine who the funds went to.   

The moral of the story is this (for average users):

1) Use a wallet on only one computer
2) Only use one account per wallet
3) Backup regularly
4) Don't attempt an import from an "old" backup.

Once the various bugs are fixed these things will become easier to use and your wallet will be less likely to end up in an odd state.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 07:56:14 PM by vikram »
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline soniq

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Re: BTSX Wallet Best Practices and Danger Areas
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2014, 07:25:01 PM »
Sticky please!!
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Offline bitmeat

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Re: BTSX Wallet Best Practices and Danger Areas
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2014, 07:41:18 PM »
But people who backed up their wallets prior to 0.4.10 should still be able to recover at some point, right?

I literally had no other way of getting back on track. When installing new software kept crashing with the old data, I wiped the data folder and imported the old JSON wallet with fresh blockchain data. Heck even that was crashing for a few versions. Finally in 0.4.10 it is somewhat back on track.

With the exception of a few orders probably imported from the old wallet that I can't seem to be able to cancel due to "invalid order type"
(details already sent, BM is looking at it)

Offline ripplexiaoshan

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Re: BTSX Wallet Best Practices and Danger Areas
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2014, 07:46:44 PM »
Very helpful tips.  +5%
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Offline xeroc

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Re: BTSX Wallet Best Practices and Danger Areas
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2014, 09:03:12 PM »
In the meantime .. if you lost funds, you can try this:
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/RecoveringFunds
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Offline bytemaster

Re: BTSX Wallet Best Practices and Danger Areas
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2014, 09:13:40 PM »
But people who backed up their wallets prior to 0.4.10 should still be able to recover at some point, right?

I literally had no other way of getting back on track. When installing new software kept crashing with the old data, I wiped the data folder and imported the old JSON wallet with fresh blockchain data. Heck even that was crashing for a few versions. Finally in 0.4.10 it is somewhat back on track.

With the exception of a few orders probably imported from the old wallet that I can't seem to be able to cancel due to "invalid order type"
(details already sent, BM is looking at it)

Yes if you wallet was backed up at any point in time we are working on solutions for a full restore.  These best practices are mainly to help prevent problems before the occur.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline cass

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Re: BTSX Wallet Best Practices and Danger Areas
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2014, 09:20:32 PM »
ok and best practise if i'm using more than one account? What can i do to backup etc... ? Or no way to do so yet?
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Offline bytemaster

Re: BTSX Wallet Best Practices and Danger Areas
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2014, 09:45:17 PM »
ok and best practise if i'm using more than one account? What can i do to backup etc... ? Or no way to do so yet?

If you are using more than one account (I am) then just make sure you restore from a recent backup and that you backup regularly. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline cass

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Re: BTSX Wallet Best Practices and Danger Areas
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2014, 10:52:40 PM »
ok and best practise if i'm using more than one account? What can i do to backup etc... ? Or no way to do so yet?

If you are using more than one account (I am) then just make sure you restore from a recent backup and that you backup regularly.

ok :) thx
█║▌║║█  - - -  The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear  - - -  █║▌║║█

Offline Xeldal

Re: BTSX Wallet Best Practices and Danger Areas
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2014, 01:06:55 AM »

I've done all of those things

1) I've had private keys for all accounts from a very early release, loaded on multiple computers. Though I've never 'loaded' a backup to more than 1 computer. so maybe that doesn't count
2) I've loaded from an older backup.
3) my wallet has 11 accounts

I've had balance issues for a long time. no problem. Today I'm missing a more sizable portion so I'm looking for reassurance.

I want to know if there's anything I might do that would guarantee I would NOT find the missing balance?
(assuming I maintain the original private keys)

I have backups from various dates/versions.

I don't care about transaction details/memo etc, just the balance.

I've followed the recovery steps in:  http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/RecoveringFunds
No dice, yet.

Basically everything from genesis is gone.  All I can see is what I've moved from BTER

(I don't mean to turn this into my support thread. I'm content to wait. Just the one question is relevant)

Offline mtang

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Re: BTSX Wallet Best Practices and Danger Areas
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2014, 01:17:58 AM »
Trying to keep this in mind and let more chinese user know.
 +5% +5%
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merockstar

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Re: BTSX Wallet Best Practices and Danger Areas
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2014, 03:02:23 PM »
3) Do not attempt to use more than one "account" per wallet if you want to be able to easily recover from a backup
  - Based upon the current wallet code, if you use more than one account and attempt to recover keys it will not be able to allocate market orders back to the original account.  You will be able to recover the funds/orders to one of your accounts but it may not be the same account as the original order.

I have 8 accounts on the same wallet :(

Should I follow puppie's tutorial in another thread to create a wallet backup with only my main account?

If I don't care what account the funds get recovered to, only that the funds are there, am I good to go with my current wallet backed up as is (with 8 accounts)?

How important is this step?

Offline bytemaster

Re: BTSX Wallet Best Practices and Danger Areas
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2014, 03:04:47 PM »
3) Do not attempt to use more than one "account" per wallet if you want to be able to easily recover from a backup
  - Based upon the current wallet code, if you use more than one account and attempt to recover keys it will not be able to allocate market orders back to the original account.  You will be able to recover the funds/orders to one of your accounts but it may not be the same account as the original order.

I have 8 accounts on the same wallet :(

Should I follow puppie's tutorial in another thread to create a wallet backup with only my main account?

If I don't care what account the funds get recovered to, only that the funds are there, am I good to go with my current wallet backed up as is (with 8 accounts)?

How important is this step?

You are good as long as you backup.  You will not lose funds in any event.  If you don't play with the market you are also OK. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline patrickb323

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Re: BTSX Wallet Best Practices and Danger Areas
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2014, 07:51:21 PM »

Instead of using multiple accounts,  I swap between 2 wallets on the same install.  I do this by renaming APP_DATA/config.json file and APP_DATA/wallets/ folder and swap wallets in/out as I wish.

Is this dangerous?  seems to work for me.

Offline bytemaster

Re: BTSX Wallet Best Practices and Danger Areas
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2014, 07:54:22 PM »

Instead of using multiple accounts,  I swap between 2 wallets on the same install.  I do this by renaming APP_DATA/config.json file and APP_DATA/wallets/ folder and swap wallets in/out as I wish.

Is this dangerous?  seems to work for me.

Should work just fine, but of course is unsupported. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

 

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