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Offline santaclause102

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Likelihood of transaction irreversibility
« on: September 02, 2014, 03:50:55 PM »

BM told that "BiShares is more secure after 1 block than Bitcoin is after 6 blocks and more secure after 51 blocks than Bitcoin after 120 blocks."
How is that actually calculated?

Offline xeroc

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Re: Likelihood of transaction irreversibility
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2014, 03:54:11 PM »
Good that you ask .. i cannot remember either.


Afaik 51 blocks equals a checkpoint
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Offline eagleeye

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Re: Likelihood of transaction irreversibility
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2014, 03:54:25 PM »
BM told that "BiShares is more secure after 1 block than Bitcoin is after 6 blocks and more secure after 51 blocks than Bitcoin after 120 blocks."
How is that actually calculated?

Great post delulo +5%

Offline bytemaster

Re: Likelihood of transaction irreversibility
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2014, 04:15:05 PM »
BM told that "BiShares is more secure after 1 block than Bitcoin is after 6 blocks and more secure after 51 blocks than Bitcoin after 120 blocks."
How is that actually calculated?

Great post delulo +5%

99.9% of the time with a solid slate of delegates and a block that we received "on time" you never have ANY forks.   100% of the time we have had over 60% delegate participation and 99.9% of the time it has been over 90% delegate participation.   So if your transaction makes it into a block on the public chain the probability of you being on a minority fork is 0 and your client will be YELLOW or RED to warn you if there are any problems. 

After 51 delegates you have "majority approval" which is effectively a checkpoint because no delegate is going to "double sign".  510 seconds, 8.5 minutes.   Bitcoin effectively declares 120 blocks (20 hours) to be a checkpoint (and thus allow mining rewards to be spent).    8.5 minutes vs 1200 minutes.




 

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Offline xeroc

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Re: Likelihood of transaction irreversibility
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2014, 04:44:11 PM »
So if your transaction makes it into a block on the public chain the probability of you being on a minority fork is 0 and your client will be YELLOW or RED to warn you if there are any problems. 
Ah .. right .. for those of you not knowing what BM is talking about: got to console and type blockchain_get_security_state
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Offline santaclause102

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Re: Likelihood of transaction irreversibility
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2014, 05:09:30 PM »
BM told that "BiShares is more secure after 1 block than Bitcoin is after 6 blocks and more secure after 51 blocks than Bitcoin after 120 blocks."
How is that actually calculated?

Great post delulo +5%

99.9% of the time with a solid slate of delegates and a block that we received "on time" you never have ANY forks.   100% of the time we have had over 60% delegate participation and 99.9% of the time it has been over 90% delegate participation.   So if your transaction makes it into a block on the public chain the probability of you being on a minority fork is 0 and your client will be YELLOW or RED to warn you if there are any problems. 

After 51 delegates you have "majority approval" which is effectively a checkpoint because no delegate is going to "double sign".  510 seconds, 8.5 minutes.   Bitcoin effectively declares 120 blocks (20 hours) to be a checkpoint (and thus allow mining rewards to be spent).    8.5 minutes vs 1200 minutes.
Good post, thanks!
So the 6 and the 120 blocks on Bitcoin's side are arbitrary estimates by Bitcoin core devs?

Offline fluxer555

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Re: Likelihood of transaction irreversibility
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2014, 05:16:19 PM »
99.9% of the time with a solid slate of delegates and a block that we received "on time" you never have ANY forks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjvQFtlNQ-M

Offline bytemaster

Re: Likelihood of transaction irreversibility
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2014, 05:23:06 PM »
6 blocks is based upon probability of a random-walk:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_walk

120 seems arbitrary to me.... but if you go into bitcoins past you can see where a 'hard fork' undid more than 120 blocks.
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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline eagleeye

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Re: Likelihood of transaction irreversibility
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2014, 06:17:52 PM »
BM told that "BiShares is more secure after 1 block than Bitcoin is after 6 blocks and more secure after 51 blocks than Bitcoin after 120 blocks."
How is that actually calculated?

Great post delulo +5%

99.9% of the time with a solid slate of delegates and a block that we received "on time" you never have ANY forks.   100% of the time we have had over 60% delegate participation and 99.9% of the time it has been over 90% delegate participation.   So if your transaction makes it into a block on the public chain the probability of you being on a minority fork is 0 and your client will be YELLOW or RED to warn you if there are any problems. 

After 51 delegates you have "majority approval" which is effectively a checkpoint because no delegate is going to "double sign".  510 seconds, 8.5 minutes.   Bitcoin effectively declares 120 blocks (20 hours) to be a checkpoint (and thus allow mining rewards to be spent).    8.5 minutes vs 1200 minutes.
Good post, thanks!
So the 6 and the 120 blocks on Bitcoin's side are arbitrary estimates by Bitcoin core devs?

Do not tell them this (bitcoin) they are our competitor an enemy and your benefit will only be 10x your money.  This is to the moon Alice!

Offline Stan

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Re: Likelihood of transaction irreversibility
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2014, 07:16:36 PM »

Do not tell them this (bitcoin) they are our competitor an enemy and your benefit will only be 10x your money.  This is to the moon Alice!

Ah ha!  Another clue!
Eagleeye is old enough to quote Jackie Gleason...

Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline onceuponatime

Re: Likelihood of transaction irreversibility
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2014, 07:23:27 PM »

Do not tell them this (bitcoin) they are our competitor an enemy and your benefit will only be 10x your money.  This is to the moon Alice!

Ah ha!  Another clue!
Eagleeye is old enough to quote Jackie Gleason...


Since Eagleeye is constantly asking for user's screenshots and information about devs it would be really appropriate if he told us more about himself - beyond vague references to unknown internet startups and independent wealth (doesn't have to work) etc.

Offline eagleeye

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Re: Likelihood of transaction irreversibility
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2014, 07:25:03 PM »

Do not tell them this (bitcoin) they are our competitor an enemy and your benefit will only be 10x your money.  This is to the moon Alice!

Ah ha!  Another clue!
Eagleeye is old enough to quote Jackie Gleason...


thats awesome.  Keep the pictures coming.

 

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