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Offline theoretical

What is BitShares mail?
« on: September 04, 2014, 10:28:25 PM »


The comment of this commit for example:  https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares_toolkit/commit/bf909d9a7b84082316f3ab67e5951e59f2550830  is "Further development on mail client."

What is this "mail client", and what is it doing in the BitShares code?  If there have been public discussions about this, I've certainly missed them!
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Offline bytemaster

Re: What is BitShares mail?
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2014, 10:30:04 PM »
It is part of the infrastructure for light weight client notification of transactions. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline theoretical

Re: What is BitShares mail?
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2014, 12:11:43 AM »

So I guess the problem this is trying to solve is as follows:

- TITAN requires recipient to scan every transaction
- Which requires downloading all transactions (lots of bandwidth) and running crypto on every transaction (lots of CPU)
- Transaction senders upload a pair (receiver_account, txid) to a "mail server" specified in the receiver's account
- Then the client downloads txid's for their account from the "mail server," thus learning which txid's belong to them without scanning all of them.
- Then the client downloads transactions for only those txid's (either from the mail server or from peers) and runs full TITAN protocol (but only on a few txid's as opposed to all txid's in existence).

I think I have a workable protocol design which can solve this problem without the need for "mail servers."  There are some trade-offs, but I think the costs are acceptable (~20 bytes for all transactions to accounts which register for the protocol, plus additional computation/bandwidth over mail server design but the exact amount is configurable, allowing user-settable tradeoff between anonymity and computation/bandwidth).  I think the benefits of not requiring "mail servers" are substantial.

So far I've received a grand total of 10 BTSX for my contributions to the BitShares ecosystem (and of course my genesis block BTSX / LTS / etc. and return from trading activities, but I paid for those ^_^).  Is there any possibility that publishing my decentralized solution to this problem could earn me some reward?
BTS- theoretical / PTS- PZxpdC8RqWsdU3pVJeobZY7JFKVPfNpy5z / BTC- 1NfGejohzoVGffAD1CnCRgo9vApjCU2viY / the delegate formerly known as drltc / Nothing said on these forums is intended to be legally binding / All opinions are my own unless otherwise noted / Take action due to my posts at your own risk

Offline bytemaster

Re: What is BitShares mail?
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2014, 03:23:47 AM »
Innovation is its own reward. If you have a truly good idea and someone implements it then you benefit. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline theoretical

Re: What is BitShares mail?
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2014, 04:19:42 AM »
Innovation is its own reward. If you have a truly good idea and someone implements it then you benefit.

Interesting choice of words, particularly "benefit."  I would like to note that anticipated capital gains in my BTSX holdings as a result of BTSX becoming more useful to people, seeing wider adoption, greater demand and a rise in price is uncertain, far in the future, and gives me no special advantage over other BTSX speculators investors even though I exerted the special effort of figuring it out, above and beyond others.
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Offline xeroc

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Re: What is BitShares mail?
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2014, 07:09:32 AM »
I must admit I am also a lottle disappointed by BMs response .. no idea what drove him to this :(
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Offline emski

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Re: What is BitShares mail?
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2014, 07:19:55 AM »
Innovation is its own reward. If you have a truly good idea and someone implements it then you benefit.

Interesting choice of words, particularly "benefit."  I would like to note that anticipated capital gains in my BTSX holdings as a result of BTSX becoming more useful to people, seeing wider adoption, greater demand and a rise in price is uncertain, far in the future, and gives me no special advantage over other BTSX speculators investors even though I exerted the special effort of figuring it out, above and beyond others.

Benefit could mean the sole pleasure of seeing an idea/technology for real when it was only in one's imagination. Who built it is irrelevant. Material gains are something else.

Offline Gentso1

Re: What is BitShares mail?
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2014, 12:39:49 PM »
Everyone measures success or benefit in different ways, it's a personal choice and I don't think badly upon anyone for trying to get paid for work.
The man put in work and while their might not be a bounty for it per say you can't expect every skilled laborer to donate their time.People are here for different reasons some may be more willing to donate then others.
   

Offline toast

Re: What is BitShares mail?
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2014, 02:11:19 PM »
Innovation is its own reward. If you have a truly good idea and someone implements it then you benefit.

Interesting choice of words, particularly "benefit."  I would like to note that anticipated capital gains in my BTSX holdings as a result of BTSX becoming more useful to people, seeing wider adoption, greater demand and a rise in price is uncertain, far in the future, and gives me no special advantage over other BTSX speculators investors even though I exerted the special effort of figuring it out, above and beyond others.

In the past BM has tipped people for good ideas if he implements them, after they revealed it after this exact type of exchange... I think nobody wants to commit to paying for something that turns out to be unviable or something we thought of already
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Offline bytemaster

Re: What is BitShares mail?
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2014, 02:34:53 PM »
Ideas have NO MARKET VALUE without ability to execute.  I am very much against "intellectual" property.   

Quote
The value of an idea lies in the using of it.
- Thomas A. Edison

Until people use your idea it has no value. 

So what you are really asking me to do is pay you to write a post explaining something you have already done.  The "work" is sunk cost.  You get nothing if you don't reveal it, but you *might* get something (not necessarily monetary) if you do.

I would go so far as to say that *MY TIME* spent evaluating your idea is worth at least as much as your time explaining it.   Thus the exchange of ideas is *WORK* for both parties. 

When I had an "idea" I *PAID PEOPLE* to evaluate it.... imagine if instead I went to bitcointalk and said:

"I have a magical solution to peg a crypto currency to the value of a dollar, but I will only share it if someone is willing to pay me for it".         

Now put yourself in my shoes and you will see why I find requests like yours offensive. 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline xeroc

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Re: What is BitShares mail?
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2014, 02:39:04 PM »
No THAT is a response that I can interpred, understand and agreed with ..

the other response above opened up more questions than it answered
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Offline theoretical

Re: What is BitShares mail?
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2014, 06:18:38 PM »
In the past BM has tipped people for good ideas if he implements them, after they revealed it after this exact type of exchange... I think nobody wants to commit to paying for something that turns out to be unviable or something we thought of already

I understand this concern, and for that reason, in the past I've revealed my ideas freely, not asking for any reward.  I have actively participated in review and technical criticism of many proposals, and I have publicly presented and discussed several good ideas which were ultimately implemented.  I have also privately discussed several potential security issues with bytemaster (in cases where I believed public disclosure might be irresponsible).  However, I have never received any after-the-fact contributions when my ideas are proven sound.  I have received exactly one contribution of 10 BTSX from another forum member, who I believe is not associated with I3 or dacsunlimtied, for direct person-to-person technical support with a GUI issue in a previous version of the client.

I'm not some random crank, previously unknown to this community and forum, demanding money to hear my rambling criticism of Federal Reserve macro-economic policy and the arguments in favor of returning to the gold standard.  As you can see from my post history, I've made a lot of contributions to this forum.  Back in March I contributed an idea which was later called FDIC, and I believe a variant of this idea (using BitUSD-denominated fees instead of BTSX-denominated fees) has since been either implemented or scheduled for implementation (posts on the topic have been a little ambiguous)  [1].

Quoting another post of mine from March [2]:

Have a new transaction type which allows an address to assign its current and future CDD to another address.  Thus, a single private key controlled by a pool operator can use a minimal number of bytes to vote on a block in representation of a large number of pool participants.  The pool participants get the advantage of the pool, but don't have to give up control of their funds to the pool operator.  You can think of this as "proxy voting" [2] (note, this is not quite the same as "proxy" in computer networking terminology).  You can specify any BTS address to act as your proxy, and you can "fire" your proxy at any time (i.e. you can make a transaction at any time to assign your CDD to a different pool, or give them back to yourself).

I believe this was the first public discussion in the context of BitShares of allowing someone else to exercise your stake's control of the network without also giving them control of your funds or private keys.  An idea which eventually evolved into the delegate system as currently implemented.  I had many posts in that discussion, the above was one of the more insightful ones.

I wrote one small patch that was merged, and I'm working on a larger one for an issue which I think is of long-term importance, but will be low-priority for the developers.  (As the concerns this patch addresses are potentially security related, I have a good reason for not publicly disclosing them, and for prioritizing it higher than my work on the specification bounty.)

I've filed many tickets in Github with highly specific, actionable feedback on clear UI issues.

I would love to put my idea out there, have the community discuss it and tear it apart.  I have no problem with leaving one of my own ideas to die if close evaluation reveals it's unworkable, or if there's a better alternative.  (For example, I was a staunch proponent of Dividends 1.0 but I've since realized that everyone's accountants will thank BM profusely for implementing interest as capital gains rather than income.)  But the problem is that coming up with ideas, clearly presenting them and discussing them consumes a lot of my time.  I find it difficult to justify that time investment when it generates no direct financial return.  And I don't think it's unreasonable to point out that one reason investors bought into AGS and PTS was to give I3 funds to pay people like me.

Asking for money is awkward and makes me look greedy.  But throwing my ideas out there and hoping for a reward hasn't been working; I feel like the only way I can make it happen is to ask.

[1] https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3015.msg43870#msg43870

[2] https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3623.msg46238#msg46238
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Offline CLains

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Re: What is BitShares mail?
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2014, 07:50:26 PM »
Innovation might be its own reward when launching big projects, but most talented outsiders simply spot a flaw or a gap (that I3 might be oblivious to) where they can help out say, given 20-30 hours of work. 90% of these people are working full-time jobs outside of crypto, have limited time, and see this as a land of opportunity that might help lift them out of a 9-5 existence.

If talent is not given a soft-entry offer it will quickly and pragmatically, and without concern for your ideology, move on to some other space. The fact that BM emits a light of genius that attracts people simply masks the underlying failure to attract the talent in this space by natural means.

Retrospective tipping mafia style >> Ideology
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Offline smiley35

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Re: What is BitShares mail?
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2014, 11:37:58 PM »
Whats your pts address?

Offline theoretical

Re: What is BitShares mail?
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2014, 06:07:03 AM »
Whats your pts address?

PZxpdC8RqWsdU3pVJeobZY7JFKVPfNpy5z

You can see all my donation addresses, together with my latest and greatest idea, here:  https://github.com/drltc/bitbond-proposal/blob/master/bitbond.md
BTS- theoretical / PTS- PZxpdC8RqWsdU3pVJeobZY7JFKVPfNpy5z / BTC- 1NfGejohzoVGffAD1CnCRgo9vApjCU2viY / the delegate formerly known as drltc / Nothing said on these forums is intended to be legally binding / All opinions are my own unless otherwise noted / Take action due to my posts at your own risk

 

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