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Offline hughmanwho

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BitUSD vs CoinoUSD
« on: September 05, 2014, 03:04:53 PM »

I'm assuming you guys know with BitUSD, basically people short BTSX to create BitUSD out of thin air, and other can buy or sell them.  Problem is it's fluctuated from anywhere between $0.71 and $0.999 (or $2 upon opening).  It has some potential as a prediction market.. but those are swings of 30%, it's certainly not stable enough for a merchant to decide to store his money in that form.  And personally, I'd be afraid of a bank run.

CoinoUSD is an assset, run on the Nxt asset exchange that is backed by actual dollars.  At any point in time, you can take a CoinoUSD asset and send it to your CoinoUSD account, which will allow you to cash out and end up with an actual dollar bill sitting in your bank account.  Because they hold on to USD to back CoinoUSD, no worry of a bank run.  Problem of course is that it's centralized.
More details: https://coinomat.com/coinousd.php

So, question is what do you guys think about BitUSD vs CoinoUSD?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 05:54:34 PM by hughmanwho »

Offline bytemaster

Re: BitUSD vs CoinoUSD
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2014, 03:09:09 PM »
I'm assuming you guys know with BitUSD, basically people short BTSX to create BitUSD out of thin air, and other can buy or sell them.  Problem is it's fluctuated from anywhere between $0.71 and $0.999 (or $2 upon opening).  It has some potential as a prediction market.. but those are swings of 30%, it's certainly not stable enough for a merchant to decide to store his money in that form.  And personally, I'd be afraid of a bank run.

CoinoUSD is an assset, run on the Nxt asset exchange that is backed by actual dollars.  At any point in time, you can take a CoinoUSD asset and send it to your CoinoUSD account, which will allow you to cash out and end up with an actual dollar bill sitting in your bank account.  Because they hold on to USD to back CoinoUSD, no worry of a bank run.  Problem of course is that it's centralized.

So, question is what do you guys think about BitUSD vs CoinoUSD?

I would love to see CoinoUSD issued as a user issued asset on BTSX and trade against BitUSD :)

Personally with CoinoUSD I would be afraid of a bankrun + government shutdown, etc.    BitUSD has different risks and the market will eventually price them accordingly.

Here is the interesting thing... the risk for BitUSD is only the "spread" and over time that will narrow.   The "volatility" you state was at launch and prior to restrictions on shorting being introduced.  Give it time to mature before you judge it.
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Offline tonyk

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Re: BitUSD vs CoinoUSD
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2014, 03:11:02 PM »
I'm assuming you guys know with BitUSD, basically people short BTSX to create BitUSD out of thin air, and other can buy or sell them.  Problem is it's fluctuated from anywhere between $0.71 and $0.999 (or $2 upon opening).  It has some potential as a prediction market.. but those are swings of 30%, it's certainly not stable enough for a merchant to decide to store his money in that form.  And personally, I'd be afraid of a bank run.

CoinoUSD is an assset, run on the Nxt asset exchange that is backed by actual dollars.  At any point in time, you can take a CoinoUSD asset and send it to your CoinoUSD account, which will allow you to cash out and end up with an actual dollar bill sitting in your bank account.  Because they hold on to USD to back CoinoUSD, no worry of a bank run.  Problem of course is that it's centralized.

So, question is what do you guys think about BitUSD vs CoinoUSD?

IOU's gateways/assets are coming to BTSX soon (I hope) so...
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline Gentso1

Re: BitUSD vs CoinoUSD
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2014, 03:12:24 PM »
couple questions
How are coinoUSD created?
Who holds this USD that coinoUSD is backed by?
You say you can take coinoUSD and cash out to bank account, how exactly do you do this?



Offline Empirical1.1

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Re: BitUSD vs CoinoUSD
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2014, 04:20:03 PM »
Who holds this USD that coinoUSD is backed by?

That's what I want to know.

It's probably a centralised entity like Realcoin where you have to trust CoinoUSD won't do a runner and know that if .gov doesn't like it they can just seize their backing dollars/assets or target them through their banking partners.

CoinoUSD will probably be backed by centralised seizable collateral but BitUSD is backed by decentralised unseizable collateral.



Offline liondani

Re: BitUSD vs CoinoUSD
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2014, 04:30:58 PM »
Problem of course is that it's centralized.

I guess no comments are needed..
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Offline Gentso1

Re: BitUSD vs CoinoUSD
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2014, 04:34:37 PM »
Who holds this USD that coinoUSD is backed by?

That's what I want to know.

It's probably a centralised entity like Realcoin where you have to trust CoinoUSD won't do a runner and know that if .gov doesn't like it they can just seize their backing dollars/assets or target them through their banking partners.

CoinoUSD will probably be backed by centralised seizable collateral but BitUSD is backed by decentralised unseizable collateral.
and thats what I am also thinking. The biggest problem I have with nxt is that their asset's are backed by trust. All the assets I found on the exchange were based either on the reputation of a board member or trusting a business of some kind that was just created with no history.

Are assets are backed by btsx. Now btsx has a real world value and we don't have to trust anyone. It's also important to note that the more the platform is used the more daily burning occur's and the more the value of btsx will rise(through utility). It's like it own little self feeding ecosystem. The more you use it the more value btsx has and the more value btsx has the stronger the backing of the asset's that are created.

Offline Empirical1.1

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Re: BitUSD vs CoinoUSD
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2014, 04:45:38 PM »
Who holds this USD that coinoUSD is backed by?

That's what I want to know.

It's probably a centralised entity like Realcoin where you have to trust CoinoUSD won't do a runner and know that if .gov doesn't like it they can just seize their backing dollars/assets or target them through their banking partners.

CoinoUSD will probably be backed by centralised seizable collateral but BitUSD is backed by decentralised unseizable collateral.
and thats what I am also thinking. The biggest problem I have with nxt is that their asset's are backed by trust. All the assets I found on the exchange were based either on the reputation of a board member or trusting a business of some kind that was just created with no history.

Are assets are backed by btsx. Now btsx has a real world value and we don't have to trust anyone. It's also important to note that the more the platform is used the more daily burning occur's and the more the value of btsx will rise(through utility). It's like it own little self feeding ecosystem. The more you use it the more value btsx has and the more value btsx has the stronger the backing of the asset's that are created.

Yeah BTSX assets are backed by a lot of BTSX, plus insurance fund, plus we can do small dilution in emergency (probably never needed) Basically at it's core Bytemaster has solved a big problem in a decentralised way. BTSX > Bitcoin imo easy.

CoinoUSD/Realcoin/User issued (Trust required) assets have a market but nothing like BitAssets.

Problem of course is that it's centralized.

I guess no comments are needed..

Yip, pretty much imo.

Offline Method-X

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Re: BitUSD vs CoinoUSD
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2014, 05:29:20 PM »

Offline hughmanwho

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Re: BitUSD vs CoinoUSD
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2014, 05:34:14 PM »
I would love to see CoinoUSD issued as a user issued asset on BTSX and trade against BitUSD :)

Personally with CoinoUSD I would be afraid of a bankrun + government shutdown, etc.    BitUSD has different risks and the market will eventually price them accordingly.

Here is the interesting thing... the risk for BitUSD is only the "spread" and over time that will narrow.   The "volatility" you state was at launch and prior to restrictions on shorting being introduced.  Give it time to mature before you judge it.

Either that.. or BTSX is in a little bit of a bubble at the moment, volume will drop as speculators get bored and move to the next coin, and the spread will increase and it'll fall apart.  Couple other potential risks.

What shorting restrictions were removed?

We'll see.. would be really cool to have decentralized fiat in crypto.  I just happen to be very skeptical.

I don't see any reason that CoinoUSD should have problems with this asset, it's not like they are offering unlicensed stock.  If buying/selling BTC is legal, no reason CoinoUSD shouldn't be.  All Coinomat is saying is that they are willing to buy your CoinoUSD from you for $1 and sell it to you for $1.  I definitely think this will be more stable than BitUSD.

couple questions
How are coinoUSD created?
Who holds this USD that coinoUSD is backed by?
You say you can take coinoUSD and cash out to bank account, how exactly do you do this?


Run by coinomat.com
You give them USD, via bank transfer, and they give you CoinoUSD in return.
If you want to cash out, you give them back your CoinUSD, and they give you $1 per 1 CoinoUSD asset.

More details: https://coinomat.com/coinousd.php

Offline xeroc

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Re: BitUSD vs CoinoUSD
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2014, 05:52:09 PM »
Unless tgey run with you dollars and leave you behind with coinos and no buyers ;)
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Offline hughmanwho

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Re: BitUSD vs CoinoUSD
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2014, 05:59:17 PM »
Unless tgey run with you dollars and leave you behind with coinos and no buyers ;)

It is indeed a risk of centralization.  But odds of that happening are low.

And if it happens we can always start up a fakeUSD asset that we claim is worth a dollar even though it's not backed up anything and use it to refund the customers their money. Maybe we can bring future fakeUSD assets into creation by shorting... ;)

Seriously I hope BitUSD is successful, I just don't see it though.  Maybe if you hide the details from people so they think that BitUSD actually is backed by USD..

Also, they are in the process of getting some kind of financial license in the UK to make sure everything is legal.

Offline gamey

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Re: BitUSD vs CoinoUSD
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2014, 06:06:27 PM »
I would love to see CoinoUSD issued as a user issued asset on BTSX and trade against BitUSD :)

Personally with CoinoUSD I would be afraid of a bankrun + government shutdown, etc.    BitUSD has different risks and the market will eventually price them accordingly.

Here is the interesting thing... the risk for BitUSD is only the "spread" and over time that will narrow.   The "volatility" you state was at launch and prior to restrictions on shorting being introduced.  Give it time to mature before you judge it.

Either that.. or BTSX is in a little bit of a bubble at the moment, volume will drop as speculators get bored and move to the next coin, and the spread will increase and it'll fall apart.  Couple other potential risks.

What shorting restrictions were removed?

We'll see.. would be really cool to have decentralized fiat in crypto.  I just happen to be very skeptical.

I don't see any reason that CoinoUSD should have problems with this asset, it's not like they are offering unlicensed stock.  If buying/selling BTC is legal, no reason CoinoUSD shouldn't be.  All Coinomat is saying is that they are willing to buy your CoinoUSD from you for $1 and sell it to you for $1.  I definitely think this will be more stable than BitUSD.

couple questions
How are coinoUSD created?
Who holds this USD that coinoUSD is backed by?
You say you can take coinoUSD and cash out to bank account, how exactly do you do this?


Run by coinomat.com
You give them USD, via bank transfer, and they give you CoinoUSD in return.
If you want to cash out, you give them back your CoinUSD, and they give you $1 per 1 CoinoUSD asset.

More details: https://coinomat.com/coinousd.php

All is good until funds are frozen/stolen or access to banking system is cut off for processors.  It has happened and will continue to happen when someone uses government as a tool to oppress others.  BTSX avoids that.

CoinoUSD has different risks.

I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline Riverhead

Re: BitUSD vs CoinoUSD
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2014, 06:08:14 PM »
You're forgetting the only way to create bitUSD is by putting up twice its worth in BTSX and the only way to get BTSX is to buy it with BTC (which has already proven to have real value by the market). So to say bitUSD is created out of thin air is a bit misleading. It's minted and loaned by the exchange and destroyed when returned.

Offline oco101

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Re: BitUSD vs CoinoUSD
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2014, 06:10:22 PM »
Unless tgey run with you dollars and leave you behind with coinos and no buyers ;)

It is indeed a risk of centralization.  But odds of that happening are low.

And if it happens we can always start up a fakeUSD asset that we claim is worth a dollar even though it's not backed up anything and use it to refund the customers their money. Maybe we can bring future fakeUSD assets into creation by shorting... ;)

Seriously I hope BitUSD is successful, I just don't see it though.  Maybe if you hide the details from people so they think that BitUSD actually is backed by USD..

Also, they are in the process of getting some kind of financial license in the UK to make sure everything is legal.

bitUSD is is backed by USD, see that the thing that you don't get. As long Btsx has value bitUSD is backed by USD without any centralization whatsoever. What you are saying there is a danger that BTSX has no more value then your bitUSD it is not backed anymore. Sure it could happen but btsx it is not just a coin it is a business behind it and that's the value. Now all the altcoins out there,  with a few exception, they are just ... well coins.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 06:34:19 PM by oco101 »

 

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