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Offline Thom

Escrow service - HOWTO or Sticky for newbies
« on: September 05, 2014, 05:49:55 PM »

 I'm a newbie, and I'm interested in trading some physical gold for bitshares. Not much, max 2 oz. I'm also open to a trade for BTC but my ultimate goal is to own BTSX.

Seeing how many scams are done through such offers & transactions, how does one select an escrow service? Where can such services be found?

Can anyone walk a newbie through this process and provide assurance via independently verified means the escrow will be neutral and reliable to both parties?

Thanks for any advice you experienced people might have about this.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 06:26:29 PM by Thom »
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech Team Witness Proposal: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,13837.msg243656.html#msg243656

Offline Thom

Re: Escrow service - HOWTO or Sticky for newbies
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2014, 02:14:04 AM »
So there's nobody willing to accept 4 half ounce American Eagles for BTSX or bitGLD shares?

toast says he's willing to be the escrow agent and that's good enough for me  8)
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech Team Witness Proposal: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,13837.msg243656.html#msg243656

Offline donkeypong

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Re: Escrow service - HOWTO or Sticky for newbies
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2014, 02:41:27 AM »
If you can find anybody selling their BTSX on here, then the rate you get will be pretty poor. You're in the thick of the believers' nest here. With what BitShares has in the pipeline, I wouldn't sell at 100x current value. Sorry.

Offline Thom

Re: Escrow service - HOWTO or Sticky for newbies
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2014, 03:15:31 AM »
Thanks for your reply donkeypong.

I'm trying to get into the believer's nest!

But I understand what you're saying. I guess I better revise my request to attract a buyer of the coins for some other asset, like bitUSD or BTC. I'd prefer a direct route, but as yo uhave now made clear to me the chances of finding a taker here are pretty slim right now.

Do you have any suggestions on how I can become a BTSX shareholder with real bullion coins?

I'm a novice but I'm not dumb.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech Team Witness Proposal: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,13837.msg243656.html#msg243656

Offline donkeypong

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Re: Escrow service - HOWTO or Sticky for newbies
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2014, 03:53:51 AM »
You're probably better off just selling your metals and then trading cash for BTC, BTC for BTSX. Messy, I know, and you're getting reamed at every turn. But the alternative would be to sell your metals really low anyway and that's if you could find a BTSX seller. The BTSX marketing campaign should ramp up within a few weeks once they've caught all the bugs in the client (just a guess), so getting into BTSX earlier may help offset your transaction fees with all those conversions. This is new, so there just aren't many good on-ramps available yet, and definitely not from physical bullion.

Offline Thom

Re: Escrow service - HOWTO or Sticky for newbies
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2014, 09:39:13 PM »
Thanks for that perspective donkeypong, you're probably right, that may be my only path.

I don't have an account on an exchange, and I really dislike the fact that all the early adopters and supporters of bitShares have to go through some sort of tracked USD onramp to obtain shares.

Perhaps I'm being overly paranoid but I really really don't want that trackability.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech Team Witness Proposal: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,13837.msg243656.html#msg243656

Offline sschechter

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Re: Escrow service - HOWTO or Sticky for newbies
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2014, 09:59:35 PM »
I really dislike the fact that all the early adopters and supporters of bitShares have to go through some sort of tracked USD onramp to obtain shares.

You can probably find someone in your town willing to do a cash for BTC in person transaction - someone looking not to be tracked on their exit
BTSX: sschechter
PTS: PvBUyPrDRkJLVXZfvWjdudRtQgv1Fcy5Qe

Offline Thom

Re: Escrow service - HOWTO or Sticky for newbies
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2014, 01:20:56 AM »
Guess again sschechter. I live in a rural town of less than 300 people.

I really feel screwed by the freakin banks man. I don't HAVE a bank account and I don't want to GET one. Yet it seems I would have to get one to buy "stock" in BitSharesX. What an ironic situation this is, that to invest you MUST be a participant in the banking system BitShares is designed to supercede.

I was hoping I could find someone in this community that would understand and be willing to help me out with this but it doesn't appear to be the case. Even if I had cash or paypal I couldn't buy bitshares without registering with an exchange, and all of the exchanges that trade BTSX require an ID or bank account as ID in order to place a buy order.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech Team Witness Proposal: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,13837.msg243656.html#msg243656

Offline tonyk

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Re: Escrow service - HOWTO or Sticky for newbies
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2014, 01:34:29 AM »
Guess again sschechter. I live in a rural town of less than 300 people.

I really feel screwed by the freakin banks man. I don't HAVE a bank account and I don't want to GET one. Yet it seems I would have to get one to buy "stock" in BitSharesX. What an ironic situation this is, that to invest you MUST be a participant in the banking system BitShares is designed to supercede.

I was hoping I could find someone in this community that would understand and be willing to help me out with this but it doesn't appear to be the case. Even if I had cash or paypal I couldn't buy bitshares without registering with an exchange, and all of the exchanges that trade BTSX require an ID or bank account as ID in order to place a buy order.
Excuse my ignorance/curiosity - how do you pay for your internet, without a bank account? Cash? Some prepaid plans? Living close to Starbucks/careless neighbor?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 01:41:06 AM by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline donkeypong

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Re: Escrow service - HOWTO or Sticky for newbies
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2014, 02:50:06 AM »
Thom, what region are you in? Maybe someone on the board here would meet up with you and sell you some Bitcoin. You could use that to buy BTSX.

Offline Thom

Re: Escrow service - HOWTO or Sticky for newbies
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2014, 05:08:10 AM »
There are options outside of the banks. It's not an easy way to conduct one's financial affairs tho. Postal money orders are one avenue, but there are others. Gotta think creatively man!

I live near the Missouri / Arkansas border. Thanks donkeypong for that idea. We'll see if anyone replies that wants to help, and then I'll try to figure out how to conduct the trade. If someone steps up I'm not really sure a physical meeting is necessary; could arrange for a neutral escrow transaction. Toast volunteered to provide an escrow service as have others.

The interested party would send the bitcoin to the escrow host, toast or whoever we mutually agree to, I would send the USD to the bitcoin seller in money orders or a form we agree to. When the escrow agent (toast, cass ...) gets the word from seller he has received my funds, the escrow agent would send the bitcoin to me (or possibly buy the BTSX with it and send them to me ?).

One issue in the above scenario is it would require the bitcoin seller to send the (approx.) 5 bitcoins to the escrow agent before receiving my USD payment. If I backed out or didn't send the funds, escrow agent returns the BTC to seller. If seller receives my USD but says he didn't, that's a dispute situation. The escrow agent would have to evaluate the proof I supplied that payment was sent, such as a certified letter receipt confirmation for example. If I prove it was sent and received agent should send the BTC on to me. If proof I sent is good but no receipt confirmation (lost in transit), agent should hold funds until insurance claim is filed & acknowledged or delivery service can track down the whereabouts of the funds I sent.

Using an escrow agent as described above is a bit complicated, possibly too much so. If there's are better way to facilitate this I'd love to hear it.

The face 2 face transfer would certainly work, but there are risks to that also. How can a buyer & seller conduct such an exchange when there is no direct trust relationship between them? I'd want to somehow vet the guy or have some evidence of his trustworthiness before I arranged a meeting with a total stranger in some "dark alley" to make a trade. I'm sure he would want a similar assurance, tho seller is less exposed and doesn't have to xfer any BTC until he's satisfied he safely has the USD in hand.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 05:19:28 AM by Thom »
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech Team Witness Proposal: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,13837.msg243656.html#msg243656

Offline donkeypong

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Re: Escrow service - HOWTO or Sticky for newbies
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2014, 05:08:09 PM »
You also might try https://localbitcoins.com or craigslist.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 04:11:16 AM by donkeypong »

Offline j.galt

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Re: Escrow service - HOWTO or Sticky for newbies
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2014, 01:29:52 AM »
I too have been looking into methods of buying BitShares that don't involve the use of a bank account or compromise your real world identity. There are very few options, but I'll tell you what I have found.

At this point in time it's very unlikely owners of BTSX shares will be willing to directly sell shares to you. Most here are in the process of buying as many BitShares as then can afford.

Another option is to locate a proxy agent. You could post a request here in the marketplace of this forum, asking if anyone would buy the shares for you and send them to your wallet. Of course you would have to pay their fees and probably a significant profit to make it worth their while. And how will you pay them for the shares? Send them a money order, or some other real asset like precious metals? That might be an option, but in my experience it's rare to find anyone willing to do this. There are always so many fees to be paid to redeem hard assets, not to mention escrow fees and the profits of anyone you don't already have a trust relationship with for acting as your purchasing proxy.

There is also LocalBitcoins.com, a commercial proxy agent that's made a business out of matching bitcoin buyers and sellers. They act as an escrow service and hold the seller's bitcoins until the seller acknowledges receipt of the buyers funds.

Another commercial proxy agent is CashToCrypto.com. They offer 2 ways to buy bitcoins, 1: through two or three specific banks they have relationships with (see their website for details), or 2: cash by mail. CashToCrypto.com is one of the sellers listed on the LocalBitcoins.com website and enjoys a 100% positive transaction rating. You can use any delivery service to get your cash to them in Athens Georgia. They don't take postal money orders due to the lengthy time it requires to validate them. You should also be aware that the USPS won't allow you to send cash in the mail (if you tell them!), nor does USPS insurance cover a loss of cash should you send it anyway. And of course if you literally send them cash you risk it being lost in transit, depending on your choice of delivery services, and, depending on the honesty of those working for CashToCrypto, who has just been in business for a short time (less than 2 months). Although it's no guarantee, it's doubtful they would risk a business reputation by outright theft, especially if you take precautions with your packaging and choice of delivery service. CashToCrypto has also been offering promo codes on their facebook page and on bitcointalk.org which waive their 2% fee.

I decided to take the risk and use CashToCrypto.com. I was able to use one of the promo codes and thus only had to pay the normal bitcoin transaction fee, not their 2% fee. I chose not to utilize the escrow service offered by LocalBitcoins.com to save that fee also. I used an overnight delivery service to send the cash. They sent my bitcoins to my wallet with an hour of them receiving my package.

You will need to have an account on an exchange that sells BTSX shares, such as BTC38, Coinbase, or bter, to name a few. Some allow you to setup an account anonymously (is anything on the net really anonymous? Use TOR, IP proxies or your favorite tools of choice to be as anonymous as you like) with only an email address. Once you have BTC you can easily buy BTSX shares. That part of the process is straightforward.

Good luck!


« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 03:18:29 AM by j.galt »

 

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