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MinerVato

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« on: September 06, 2014, 09:15:42 PM »

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« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 06:40:53 PM by Vato_ »

Offline cryptillionaire

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Re: whats the impact on DPOS if inactive delegates have the most votes
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2014, 09:36:22 PM »
Wouldn't the reliability variable exclude them from the delegate list? Infact.. is there a minimum reliability required before you're kicked off the delegate list?

Offline xeroc

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Re: whats the impact on DPOS if inactive delegates have the most votes
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2014, 09:41:13 PM »
if a delegate proof unreliable stakeholders voting for them wouldn't like it and remove their vote effictively kicking out the delegate from the first 101 ...

no reliability requirement ... yet.. no idea if planned. . don't think so .. producing blocks is profitable and the delegate should want to produce blocks :)
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Offline xeroc

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Re: whats the impact on DPOS if inactive delegates have the most votes
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2014, 08:57:51 AM »
producing blocks is profitable and the delegate should want to produce blocks :)
What if not and offline delegates get voted in?
Same procedure .. they fail to produce blocks .. the stakeholders realize it and vote for someone else instead ..
might take some time for the network to reach 100% delegation participation again .. but the more pro-active the stakeholders ae voting .. the better the network works
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Offline xeroc

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Re: What would be the impact of "slate-only delegates" in top101 on dpos have?
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2014, 08:59:20 AM »
Little bit more specific...
I thought about establishing a slate without being a active delegate.
So I would put my Delegates Report results in this slate so people can use it for simplified voting, if they trust me(my slate/inactive delegate).
I think that this would be a nice service for my blog followers but I don't think it is good if this would have negative impact to DPOS if one or more slates are in the top 101 by time.

EDIT: So what would be the impact of "slate-only delegates" in top101 on dpos?

having a non active delegate to publish a slate does not make much sense, as you are voted aswell once people vote for your slate .. actually its the other way round: people vote for your delegate and thus also vote for your slate
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Offline xeroc

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Re: what would be the impact of "slate-only delegates" in top101 on dpos?
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2014, 09:21:58 AM »
OK. So we need an extra slate-only function in BTSX right?
BM wants to establish some kind of trusted-web within delegates ... so if you trust delegate A and delegate A trust delegate B and has B in his slate .. then you automatically trust and approve B ..
the reason for this is to ensure people to at the end have more then 101 approved delegates in their favorits and thus can most effectively vote for the network as a whole .

if every user just voted for a single delegate .. approval voting does not make that much sense ..
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Offline xeroc

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Re: what would be the impact of "slate-only delegates" in top101 on dpos?
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2014, 10:09:24 AM »
How more I think about it...
Delegates should be no slates. Only non-delegate accounts should be able to work as slate.
Delegates have an interest to gain votes and they tend to operate more than one delegate at a time and they can cooperate as slates while they only vote for themselfes or their partners.

Man I hope I'm not too confusing.. My english is this worse today, not even I fully understand it  :o
I know exactly what you mean .. thats why a slate of a delegate should never include the own other delegates.
However I have a feeling that delegates should publish a slate so that they (as they are more interested in the health of the network) should have some power in unapproving misbehaving delegates.

checkout my latest post:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=8502.new#new
I DO have *.delegate.charity in the list .. but I DO NOT have *.delegate.xeroc in that slate ..
and so should no one else vote for their own delegates .. IMHO
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Offline liondani

Re: whats the impact on DPOS if inactive delegates have the most votes
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2014, 10:37:11 AM »
producing blocks is profitable and the delegate should want to produce blocks :)
What if not and offline delegates get voted in?
Same procedure .. they fail to produce blocks .. the stakeholders realize it and vote for someone else instead ..
might take some time for the network to reach 100% delegation participation again .. but the more pro-active the stakeholders ae voting .. the better the network works

Maybe it would be better if the participation goes to a critical number, for example 60% that the system auto-fires the half of the delegates that currently are not producing blocks and have the worst reliability compared with the other half. Only for extreme situations like that...
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Offline xeroc

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Re: whats the impact on DPOS if inactive delegates have the most votes
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2014, 11:03:12 AM »
Maybe it would be better if the participation goes to a critical number, for example 60% that the system auto-fires the half of the delegates that currently are not producing blocks and have the worst reliability compared with the other half. Only for extreme situations like that...
i am not sure if auto-firing of delegates that are inactive is a good thing .. but maybe a 12h penalty .. there can always we a power outage, a screw up during update, or some other kind of screw up .. that result in missing a block ..

however .. an auto-fire for misbehaving (in terms of double spend) delegates is a must IMHO

we should also discuss a penalty for delegates that produce forks due to two unlocked wallets ..
this might be a good idea for a separated dev/delegate hangout session IMHO
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Re: what would be the impact of "slate-only delegates" in top101 on dpos?
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2014, 11:44:10 AM »
OK I think this could work.

But back to my main objective.
Would you vote for my delegate to use him as slate but with knowing it will never be able to produce a block?
probably .. unless he gets so much votes that he goes into the top 101 .. than things need to change
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Offline xeroc

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Re: what would be the impact of "slate-only delegates" in top101 on dpos?
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2014, 12:19:16 PM »
OK I think this could work.

But back to my main objective.
Would you vote for my delegate to use him as slate but with knowing it will never be able to produce a block?
probably .. unless he gets so much votes that he goes into the top 101 .. than things need to change
Ok, let's try it out I'm gonna change my "vote for delegate" campaign into "use my slate" if you trust me (my delegates report)
Is there a way to verify wich delegates are in my slate?
Is the slate by account or by wallet?
you can get the slateID from the account name:

Quote
Name: delegate.xeroc
Registered: 2014-07-23T06:54:40
Last Updated: 3 hours ago
Owner Key: BTSX52NVKZncXTQwm6gWsLXDvQ8WoG2TewBiiAJy4QUNkj7S4UWFQQ
Active Key History:
- BTSX52NVKZncXTQwm6gWsLXDvQ8WoG2TewBiiAJy4QUNkj7S4UWFQQ, last used 46 days ago

ID    NAME (* next in line)           APPROVAL       PRODUCED MISSED   RELIABILITY   PAY RATE PAY BALANCE         LAST BLOCK
============================================================================================================================
9879  delegate.xeroc                  10.67706485 %  3777     131      96.65 %       80 %     585.27369 BTSX      423411   

Public Data:
{
  "version": "0.4.12",
  "slate_id": 5754516421831337417
}

no clue yet how to figure out what delegates are in that slate ..
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