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Offline speedy

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BitUSD used to buy artistcoins?
« on: September 07, 2014, 09:56:38 PM »

According to http://peertracks.com/faq.html artistcoins can be bought using BitUSD.

BitUSD is on a different blockchain than Bitshares Music, so can someone explain the link between them? Do I open my BTSX wallet and send BitUSD to peertracks, and then it credits me with snoop dog coins?

Also, is peertracks.com basically an easy to use frontend to Bitshares Music, so that users dont need to download the wallet or know anything about crypto?

Offline cob

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Re: BitUSD used to buy artistcoins?
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2014, 04:33:38 AM »
According to http://peertracks.com/faq.html artistcoins can be bought using BitUSD.

BitUSD is on a different blockchain than Bitshares Music, so can someone explain the link between them? Do I open my BTSX wallet and send BitUSD to peertracks, and then it credits me with snoop dog coins?

Also, is peertracks.com basically an easy to use frontend to Bitshares Music, so that users dont need to download the wallet or know anything about crypto?

PeerTracks will not be holding any customer funds. This trustless world shall remain trustless ^^

PeerTracks is running on top of the BitShares Music Blockchain, so you are correct, it runs off a different blockchain entirely from BTSX. It won't be possible (at least not yet) to send BTSX Bitassets to another chain (BitShares Music).
People funding their accounts would do so in BitUSD collateralized by Notes (the Units of the Music DAC) So they really are shopping for music using Notes.. 1USD worth of Notes all packaged into what we know as a BitUSD.


And Yes. That's exactly what PeerTracks aims to be at first. and easy to use front end for the non-crypto crowd.

People's balances will appear in USD (BitUSD!) that should be (crossed fingers) volatility free. They would just shop around for music like they would any other music store, only in this instance they can buy artistcoins and make a profit if they purchased a coin from an artist that sells a lot of content.

This is the Minimum Viable Product.

Then Peertracks is going to tackle various other features, like streaming, for profit p2p quality playlist creation, a music centric social media aspect, etc.
All bringing traffic and volume to the network that is the Bitshares Music blockchain.
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Offline biophil

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Re: BitUSD used to buy artistcoins?
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2014, 12:54:56 PM »
According to http://peertracks.com/faq.html artistcoins can be bought using BitUSD.

BitUSD is on a different blockchain than Bitshares Music, so can someone explain the link between them? Do I open my BTSX wallet and send BitUSD to peertracks, and then it credits me with snoop dog coins?

Also, is peertracks.com basically an easy to use frontend to Bitshares Music, so that users dont need to download the wallet or know anything about crypto?

People funding their accounts would do so in BitUSD collateralized by Notes (the Units of the Music DAC) So they really are shopping for music using Notes.. 1USD worth of Notes all packaged into what we know as a BitUSD.


Can you elaborate a little on this? Does this mean that Bitshares Music will have its own bitUSD? So after Music launches we'll have two independent markets that are creating bitUSD?

Offline bytemaster

Re: BitUSD used to buy artistcoins?
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2014, 12:58:07 PM »

According to http://peertracks.com/faq.html artistcoins can be bought using BitUSD.

BitUSD is on a different blockchain than Bitshares Music, so can someone explain the link between them? Do I open my BTSX wallet and send BitUSD to peertracks, and then it credits me with snoop dog coins?

Also, is peertracks.com basically an easy to use frontend to Bitshares Music, so that users dont need to download the wallet or know anything about crypto?

People funding their accounts would do so in BitUSD collateralized by Notes (the Units of the Music DAC) So they really are shopping for music using Notes.. 1USD worth of Notes all packaged into what we know as a BitUSD.


Can you elaborate a little on this? Does this mean that Bitshares Music will have its own bitUSD? So after Music launches we'll have two independent markets that are creating bitUSD?

Yes and this will enable cross chain trading. 
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Offline metalallen

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Re: BitUSD used to buy artistcoins?
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2014, 03:37:57 AM »

According to http://peertracks.com/faq.html artistcoins can be bought using BitUSD.

BitUSD is on a different blockchain than Bitshares Music, so can someone explain the link between them? Do I open my BTSX wallet and send BitUSD to peertracks, and then it credits me with snoop dog coins?

Also, is peertracks.com basically an easy to use frontend to Bitshares Music, so that users dont need to download the wallet or know anything about crypto?

People funding their accounts would do so in BitUSD collateralized by Notes (the Units of the Music DAC) So they really are shopping for music using Notes.. 1USD worth of Notes all packaged into what we know as a BitUSD.


Can you elaborate a little on this? Does this mean that Bitshares Music will have its own bitUSD? So after Music launches we'll have two independent markets that are creating bitUSD?

Yes and this will enable cross chain trading.

If this will enable cross chain trading, then why we need various kinds of BitUSD? I'm lost.
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Offline bitrose

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Re: BitUSD used to buy artistcoins?
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2014, 04:09:11 AM »
In my opinion:

music_bitusd is a private bitusd , like rose in the Btsx ,like bitusd in bter.com , like The HongKang dollar for USD.

btsx_bitusd is a system bitusd.

(1)in music:peertracks issue 100 music_bitusd
(2)in btsx: peertracks create account or assets bitusd.peertracks
(3)in btsx: I send 10 bitusd to bitusd.peertracks(or its account)
(4)in music: I import my btsx's privatekey ,then(may be this need delegates's feed price) , peertracks send 10 music_btsusd to me.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2014, 05:05:45 AM by bitrose »
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Offline yidaidaxia

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Re: BitUSD used to buy artistcoins?
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2014, 01:22:41 PM »

According to http://peertracks.com/faq.html artistcoins can be bought using BitUSD.

BitUSD is on a different blockchain than Bitshares Music, so can someone explain the link between them? Do I open my BTSX wallet and send BitUSD to peertracks, and then it credits me with snoop dog coins?

Also, is peertracks.com basically an easy to use frontend to Bitshares Music, so that users dont need to download the wallet or know anything about crypto?

People funding their accounts would do so in BitUSD collateralized by Notes (the Units of the Music DAC) So they really are shopping for music using Notes.. 1USD worth of Notes all packaged into what we know as a BitUSD.


Can you elaborate a little on this? Does this mean that Bitshares Music will have its own bitUSD? So after Music launches we'll have two independent markets that are creating bitUSD?

Yes and this will enable cross chain trading.

To issue "BitUSD" backed by "notes" (as collateral) on Bitshares Music blockchain(or any other DACs besides BTSX) is a BAD idea:

1. The fundamental basis for BitUSD market peg is the community consensus that BitUSD could be used/accepted as fiat USD by massive merchants, market, public. The blockchain inside market mechanism is a tool to kick off the loop and a place to reflect the community consensus from beginning. BTSX has almost proved that the blockchain inside mechanism works but need much more time to grow up to achieve the real/solid market peg. So even if btsx backed BitUSD works well, does not mean that "notes" backed "BitUSD" could work since "notes" backed "BitUSD" is a new thing to market and will have little market depth in internal market and no merchants acceptance except for peertracks.com

2. If other DACs have their own "BitUSD", what's the value/meaning of BTSX? Other DACs have same internal BitAssets market and even additional function like Music/DNS/Play.

3. This another "BitUSD"("notes" backed "BitUSD") will confuse merchants/public and make them concern about that if BitUSD is fungible or not. We could imagine that people will question about the difference between two(or more) kinds of "BitUSD" and how difficultly we try to "educate" them that all of these "BitUSD" could peg to fiat USD and they have equal value which is not exactly true since they are backed by different collateral and blockchains.

4. Due to item 2&3 above, the additional "BitUSD" will debase the value of BTSX and the whole Bitshares DACs ecosphere and even the concept of BitAssets.

5. If every Bitshares DAC has its own "BitUSD" will increase the complexity of its system, which brings unnecessary risk and mislead the development direction from the realy core fucntion.

I believe it's much better if we make all BitUSD fungible from BTSX only.

I think it should be still viable for atomic cross chain trading, maybe it will "lose" some operation efficiency compare to the two or more "BitUSD" scenario, but it do make sense from big picture.

Even if it's not viable or low efficiency base on typic atomic cross chain trading tech, but could we think about something like the concept of Bitcoin "sidechain"?

We need to evaluate the pros/cons of all options in details.

I don't really worry about someone just forks BTSX w/ additional functions(or just completely same) if we do not cooperate w/ them. They have no chance to beat BTSX since the real market peg needs time and resouce to grow up the system and BTSX is much mature than any latecomers. We could offer them options, use BTSX's "BitUSD" by atomic cross chain trading or sidechain, or no cooperation/support from BTSX.

In short, I do think the BTS community should take it very seriously before any real implementation.

Thanks.
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Offline oco101

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Re: BitUSD used to buy artistcoins?
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2014, 03:38:24 PM »


To issue "BitUSD" backed by "notes" (as collateral) on Bitshares Music blockchain(or any other DACs besides BTSX) is a BAD idea:

1. The fundamental basis for BitUSD market peg is the community consensus that BitUSD could be used/accepted as fiat USD by massive merchants, market, public. The blockchain inside market mechanism is a tool to kick off the loop and a place to reflect the community consensus from beginning. BTSX has almost proved that the blockchain inside mechanism works but need much more time to grow up to achieve the real/solid market peg. So even if btsx backed BitUSD works well, does not mean that "notes" backed "BitUSD" could work since "notes" backed "BitUSD" is a new thing to market and will have little market depth in internal market and no merchants acceptance except for peertracks.com

2. If other DACs have their own "BitUSD", what's the value/meaning of BTSX? Other DACs have same internal BitAssets market and even additional function like Music/DNS/Play.

3. This another "BitUSD"("notes" backed "BitUSD") will confuse merchants/public and make them concern about that if BitUSD is fungible or not. We could imagine that people will question about the difference between two(or more) kinds of "BitUSD" and how difficultly we try to "educate" them that all of these "BitUSD" could peg to fiat USD and they have equal value which is not exactly true since they are backed by different collateral and blockchains.

4. Due to item 2&3 above, the additional "BitUSD" will debase the value of BTSX and the whole Bitshares DACs ecosphere and even the concept of BitAssets.

5. If every Bitshares DAC has its own "BitUSD" will increase the complexity of its system, which brings unnecessary risk and mislead the development direction from the realy core fucntion.

I believe it's much better if we make all BitUSD fungible from BTSX only.

I think it should be still viable for atomic cross chain trading, maybe it will "lose" some operation efficiency compare to the two or more "BitUSD" scenario, but it do make sense from big picture.

Even if it's not viable or low efficiency base on typic atomic cross chain trading tech, but could we think about something like the concept of Bitcoin "sidechain"?

We need to evaluate the pros/cons of all options in details.

I don't really worry about someone just forks BTSX w/ additional functions(or just completely same) if we do not cooperate w/ them. They have no chance to beat BTSX since the real market peg needs time and resouce to grow up the system and BTSX is much mature than any latecomers. We could offer them options, use BTSX's "BitUSD" by atomic cross chain trading or sidechain, or no cooperation/support from BTSX.

In short, I do think the BTS community should take it very seriously before any real implementation.

Thanks.

I agree on all points the only place that bitUSD are issued should be BitshareX, there should't be another place. If not bitUSD will be exposed to all kinds of dangers. Not sure if you have atomic cross chain  trading why you still need a market inside peertraks. ? I'm waiting on full details tough it is not clear right now

Offline liondani

Re: BitUSD used to buy artistcoins?
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2014, 07:43:10 PM »


To issue "BitUSD" backed by "notes" (as collateral) on Bitshares Music blockchain(or any other DACs besides BTSX) is a BAD idea:

1. The fundamental basis for BitUSD market peg is the community consensus that BitUSD could be used/accepted as fiat USD by massive merchants, market, public. The blockchain inside market mechanism is a tool to kick off the loop and a place to reflect the community consensus from beginning. BTSX has almost proved that the blockchain inside mechanism works but need much more time to grow up to achieve the real/solid market peg. So even if btsx backed BitUSD works well, does not mean that "notes" backed "BitUSD" could work since "notes" backed "BitUSD" is a new thing to market and will have little market depth in internal market and no merchants acceptance except for peertracks.com

2. If other DACs have their own "BitUSD", what's the value/meaning of BTSX? Other DACs have same internal BitAssets market and even additional function like Music/DNS/Play.

3. This another "BitUSD"("notes" backed "BitUSD") will confuse merchants/public and make them concern about that if BitUSD is fungible or not. We could imagine that people will question about the difference between two(or more) kinds of "BitUSD" and how difficultly we try to "educate" them that all of these "BitUSD" could peg to fiat USD and they have equal value which is not exactly true since they are backed by different collateral and blockchains.

4. Due to item 2&3 above, the additional "BitUSD" will debase the value of BTSX and the whole Bitshares DACs ecosphere and even the concept of BitAssets.

5. If every Bitshares DAC has its own "BitUSD" will increase the complexity of its system, which brings unnecessary risk and mislead the development direction from the realy core fucntion.

I believe it's much better if we make all BitUSD fungible from BTSX only.

I think it should be still viable for atomic cross chain trading, maybe it will "lose" some operation efficiency compare to the two or more "BitUSD" scenario, but it do make sense from big picture.

Even if it's not viable or low efficiency base on typic atomic cross chain trading tech, but could we think about something like the concept of Bitcoin "sidechain"?

We need to evaluate the pros/cons of all options in details.

I don't really worry about someone just forks BTSX w/ additional functions(or just completely same) if we do not cooperate w/ them. They have no chance to beat BTSX since the real market peg needs time and resouce to grow up the system and BTSX is much mature than any latecomers. We could offer them options, use BTSX's "BitUSD" by atomic cross chain trading or sidechain, or no cooperation/support from BTSX.

In short, I do think the BTS community should take it very seriously before any real implementation.

Thanks.

I agree on all points the only place that bitUSD are issued should be BitshareX, there should't be another place. If not bitUSD will be exposed to all kinds of dangers. Not sure if you have atomic cross chain  trading why you still need a market inside peertraks. ? I'm waiting on full details tough it is not clear right now

 +5% +5% +5%

It's silly to attempt to make a new bitUSD except you thing you can compete  BTSX bitUSD and you want to overtake it in the  future...
I mean imagine 2 bitUSD (or more) depending on diferrent collaterals:

example:
bitUSD BTSX 98% of USD
bitUSD notes 90% of USD

we must push only one bitUSD so the potential market depth will not split among several bitUSDs and the PEGs holds tighter to the real USD price if only one bitUSD present...
It would confuse the crypto market and at the end only one will "survive" after all if you ask me...

You can use/buy as much bitUSDs you want from the free market or  direct from BTSX decentralized exchange!


PS I wonder what bytemaster thinks about their strategy (?)
« Last Edit: September 09, 2014, 07:45:22 PM by liondani »
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Offline xeroc

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Re: BitUSD used to buy artistcoins?
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2014, 07:49:32 PM »
I may be mistaken but:
 - there will be cross chain trading (i read somewhere from BM)
 - it does not matter what collateral you have for a bitUSD as long as the market decides one pile of shit is worth 1 dollar .. hehe
 - there are NO two different bitUSD .. they are the same
 - the "market cap" of the bitUSD is already incorporated into the market cap of btsx IMHO ..
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Offline oco101

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Re: BitUSD used to buy artistcoins?
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2014, 07:56:44 PM »
I may be mistaken but:
 - there will be cross chain trading (i read somewhere from BM)
 - it does not matter what collateral you have for a bitUSD as long as the market decides one pile of shit is worth 1 dollar .. hehe
 - there are NO two different bitUSD .. they are the same
 - the "market cap" of the bitUSD is already incorporated into the market cap of btsx IMHO ..

Ok but why you need a market inside peertraks ? or i get that part completely wrong ?

Offline Shentist

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Re: BitUSD used to buy artistcoins?
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2014, 07:57:33 PM »
i don't get it.

how will cross chain trading done?

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Re: BitUSD used to buy artistcoins?
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2014, 08:05:12 PM »
I may be mistaken but:
 - there will be cross chain trading (i read somewhere from BM)
 - it does not matter what collateral you have for a bitUSD as long as the market decides one pile of shit is worth 1 dollar .. hehe
 - there are NO two different bitUSD .. they are the same
 - the "market cap" of the bitUSD is already incorporated into the market cap of btsx IMHO ..

Ok but why you need a market inside peertraks ? or i get that part completely wrong ?
it's a sideeffect of the bitsharesX code beeing used as basis .. AND you actually want to be able to trade for artistcoins... guitarGuyCoins and BeatlesCoins .. Biebercoins and so on .. then why not also let there be trades for bitUSD .. then you can also make cross tradings from biebercoin to bitUSD ... I can imaging a exchange where you can trade 10 beatles coins agains 1million bieber coins .. (me as a beatles fan :-) )
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Re: BitUSD used to buy artistcoins?
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2014, 08:06:04 PM »
i don't get it.

how will cross chain trading done?
Not sure yet ... AFAIK you can send bitUSD from bitsharesX to BitSharesMusic .. effectively destroying them in btsx and creating them in bts music ...
but don't ask me for details :(
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Offline liondani

Re: BitUSD used to buy artistcoins?
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2014, 08:57:11 PM »
if I send 1 bitusd collaterized in notes that has 88% the value of real USD (because of a thin market on bitshares music)
using the cross-chain function to bitsharesX exchange, how much worth in real USD will have that bitUSD that came from there if the market peg on bitsharesx is @ 98% of real USDs ?
I mean where will go the 10% difference in value?
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