Author [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: I am putting up a $10,000 bounty to break DPOS.... Join me.  (Read 1981 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bitmarket

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 369
    • View Profile
    • BitShares TV
I am putting up a $10,000 bounty to break DPOS.... Join me.
« on: September 09, 2014, 10:40:15 PM »

Most of this post belongs in the marketing forum, but because I am seeking contributors to a bounty to break DPOS, I thought it belongs here.

My name is Max Wright and I have been following Bytemaster since before Invictus' first newsletter. My skills are in marketing and not tech and as such have watched from afar as the tech geniuses behind bitshares do their thing... very well I might add.

But after hanging out with the team in Saint Martin and working with Brian and BM for the last month, I have drawn some conclusions and here they are for that they are worth.   Feedback is appreciated.

1. Marketing to non-bitcoin enthusiasts at this early stage is a waste of time.  The entry and exit ramps to btsx require bitcoin and that is where we must focus.

2. Bitcoin works in cliques, and most bitcoiners have their favorite and trusted sources. What I call bitcoin royalty. Get them and the rest follow. Vitalik was a great start, and in the following months you will see many of his followers pay attention to btsx.  I believe we should invest our resources here first.

3. bitUSD may be very useful in getting the early masses on board but it has little appeal to early adoptors, innovators and bitcoin royalty. We should not focus marketing efforts on bitUSD at this time.

4. TITAN is cool, but has some potential drawbacks. I think it is easy to send money to an incorrect party and it would be nice to not lead with a privacy thing which may attract unwanted govt attention which may slow us down. Further, bitcoiners have already jumped the hurdle of dealing with ugly addresses and QR codes and as I mentioned in point 1, I think we should only be interested in bitcoiners at the moment. If we had nothing else I would run with it, but we have gold so why bother.

5. I think DPOS is the killer feature (the gold) that will help us attract the bitcoin royalty and their followers.

6. When Bitcoiners understand that in 2014 the first half a billion dollars of fiat that chased bitcoin went to electricity and chip manufacturing companies instead of sending the price of their coins to the moon they will want a solution. When they realize DPOS is that solution, they will come.

7. One by one, they will come until the call in the bitcoin community is 50% or more and they will hardfork bitcoin to DPOS. That will be great for Bitcoin and bitshares and by extension humanity.

8. I have a plan and will execute it shortly to create videos and presentations to attract the bitcoin community with the lure of using DPOS to solve this problem.

9. As part of this video I am going to offer a bounty to anyone who can destroy/hack/break DPOS

10. Thoughts on that bounty.
A) I need to work with the tech team on the wording of the bounty. DPOS is easier to corrupt than POW, but that is accounted for by its easy to recover from features (voting, hardforks, etc).  How should this bounty be worded?

B) I am willing to match dollar for dollar up to 20btc (approx $10k) for this bounty. Because I do not have the tech knowledge to know how good DPOS really is, I will only match btc put up by the dev team.  If it is too early and DPOS is not ready for the big team just yet, then that is cool we can wait. But if it is, and the devs will put their money where their mouth is (and where their time has been) I will match up to 20btc.

C) The bigger the bounty, the bigger the press, the more eyeballs on bitshares. I hope you contribute to the bounty as well.   Remember if the bounty is not claimed in 12 months, then you get your btc back and nothing is lost.  If the bounty is paid and a fatal flaw is found in DPOS then you may have just saved yourself years of your life working on a flawed concept. How much is that worth to you? It is a no lose situation. I hope to get this bounty over $100,000

D) In order for the bounty to be believed it must be held in a public btc wallet. Pledges are not enough.   I suggest a multisig wallet, with myself, BM and a couple of other trusted community members as signers.

11. I would like to get this video and concept out soon so if you have ideas or can contribute setting up the bounty wallet, please post here quickly.

Thoughts and feedback appreciated.


« Last Edit: September 09, 2014, 10:44:25 PM by bitmarket »
Host of BitShares.TV and Author of BitShares 101

Offline eagleeye

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 931
    • View Profile
Re: I am putting up a $10,000 bounty to break DPOS.... Join me.
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2014, 10:46:40 PM »
Most of this post belongs in the marketing forum, but because I am seeking contributors to a bounty to break DPOS, I thought it belongs here.

My name is Max Wright and I have been following Bytemaster since before Invictus' first newsletter. My skills are in marketing and not tech and as such have watched from afar as the tech geniuses behind bitshares do their thing... very well I might add.

But after hanging out with the team in Saint Martin and working with Brian and BM for the last month, I have drawn some conclusions and here they are for that they are worth.   Feedback is appreciated.

1. Marketing to non-bitcoin enthusiasts at this early stage is a waste of time.  The entry and exit ramps to btsx require bitcoin and that is where we must focus.

2. Bitcoin works in cliques, and most bitcoiners have their favorite and trusted sources. What I call bitcoin royalty. Get them and the rest follow. Vitalik was a great start, and in the following months you will see many of his followers pay attention to btsx.  I believe we should invest our resources here first.

3. bitUSD may be very useful in getting the early masses on board but it has little appeal to early adoptors, innovators and bitcoin royalty. We should not focus marketing efforts on bitUSD at this time.

4. TITAN is cool, but has some potential drawbacks. I think it is easy to send money to an incorrect party and it would be nice to not lead with a privacy thing which may attract unwanted govt attention which may slow us down. Further, bitcoiners have already jumped the hurdle of dealing with ugly addresses and QR codes and as I mentioned in point 1, I think we should only be interested in bitcoiners at the moment. If we had nothing else I would run with it, but we have gold so why bother.

5. I think DPOS is the killer feature (the gold) that will help us attract the bitcoin royalty and their followers.

6. When Bitcoiners understand that in 2014 the first half a billion dollars of fiat that chased bitcoin went to electricity and chip manufacturing companies instead of sending the price of their coins to the moon they will want a solution. When they realize DPOS is that solution, they will come.

7. One by one, they will come until the call in the bitcoin community is 50% or more and they will hardfork bitcoin to DPOS. That will be great for Bitcoin and bitshares and by extension humanity.

8. I have a plan and will execute it shortly to create videos and presentations to attract the bitcoin community with the lure of using DPOS to solve this problem.

9. As part of this video I am going to offer a bounty to anyone who can destroy/hack/break DPOS

10. Thoughts on that bounty.
A) I need to work with the tech team on the wording of the bounty. DPOS is easier to corrupt than POW, but that is accounted for by its easy to recover from features (voting, hardforks, etc).  How should this bounty be worded?

B) I am willing to match dollar for dollar up to 20btc (approx $10k) for this bounty. Because I do not have the tech knowledge to know how good DPOS really is, I will only match btc put up by the dev team.  If it is too early and DPOS is not ready for the big team just yet, then that is cool we can wait. But if it is, and the devs will put their money where their mouth is (and where their time has been) I will match up to 20btc.

C) The bigger the bounty, the bigger the press, the more eyeballs on bitshares. I hope you contribute to the bounty as well.   Remember if the bounty is not claimed in 12 months, then you get your btc back and nothing is lost.  If the bounty is paid and a fatal flaw is found in DPOS then you may have just saved yourself years of your life working on a flawed concept. How much is that worth to you? It is a no lose situation. I hope to get this bounty over $100,000

D) In order for the bounty to be believed it must be held in a public btc wallet. Pledges are not enough.   I suggest a multisig wallet, with myself, BM and a couple of other trusted community members as signers.

11. I would like to get this video and concept out soon so if you have ideas or can contribute setting up the bounty wallet, please post here quickly.

Thoughts and feedback appreciated.

Fantastic marketing tactic/ploy. +5%

Should the money be in escrow?

Offline liondani

Re: I am putting up a $10,000 bounty to break DPOS.... Join me.
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2014, 10:48:55 PM »
nice idea
 +5% +5% +5%

what about 1 million bitUSD bounty?
  https://bitshares.OPENLEDGER.info/?r=GREECE  | You are in Control | BUY | SELL | SHORT | SWAP | LOAN | TRADE |  

Offline onceuponatime

Re: I am putting up a $10,000 bounty to break DPOS.... Join me.
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2014, 10:53:46 PM »
I'll put up one BTC.

Offline onceuponatime

Re: I am putting up a $10,000 bounty to break DPOS.... Join me.
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2014, 10:54:45 PM »
nice idea
 +5% +5% +5%

what about 1 million bitUSD bounty?

Doesn't make sense. If DPOS is broken then bitUSD is valueless.

Offline GaltReport

Re: I am putting up a $10,000 bounty to break DPOS.... Join me.
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2014, 10:57:16 PM »
nice idea
 +5% +5% +5%

what about 1 million bitUSD bounty?

Doesn't make sense. If DPOS is broken then bitUSD is valueless.

Kinda what I was thinking...nice marketing stunt...but what if it breaks, very publicly?  Maybe something a little less public like using the money for paying security bug bounties?

Offline onceuponatime

Re: I am putting up a $10,000 bounty to break DPOS.... Join me.
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2014, 11:02:32 PM »
nice idea
 +5% +5% +5%

what about 1 million bitUSD bounty?

Doesn't make sense. If DPOS is broken then bitUSD is valueless.

Kinda what I was thinking...nice marketing stunt...but what if it breaks, very publicly?  Maybe something a little less public like using the money for paying security bug bounties?

I disagree . Make it VERY public, but with a limited duration (like one month). At the end of the month, with all the publicity plus the new found confidence in our system, WATCH BTSX FLYING PAST THE MOON - on the way to Mars.

Offline toast

Re: I am putting up a $10,000 bounty to break DPOS.... Join me.
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2014, 11:05:50 PM »
This is ok if we write a proper whitepaper first and make the bounty about breaking the protocol.
We need a separate bug bounty for implementation bugs which is *not* ready for huge public bounty.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline eagleeye

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 931
    • View Profile
Re: I am putting up a $10,000 bounty to break DPOS.... Join me.
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2014, 11:10:28 PM »
This is ok if we write a proper whitepaper first and make the bounty about breaking the protocol.
We need a separate bug bounty for implementation bugs which is *not* ready for huge public bounty.

I agree with toast.  We need to not break the online market but instead have the protocols tested.  Breaking the bitUSD market could do major damage to bitshares (dont know in the long term though)

Offline jwiz168

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 409
    • View Profile
Re: I am putting up a $10,000 bounty to break DPOS.... Join me.
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2014, 11:24:25 PM »
IMO, the OP is afraid of success of DPOS , His whole investment in BTC is in the verge of collapse. That is the reason why he wants to break the DPOS mania. Some FUD ers , but I3 has been working and focus on security issues so $10,000 is worth a try but that is just a SMALL and CHEAP (concept) bounty compare to the rewards that is waiting for each DAC investor.


Offline robrigo

Re: I am putting up a $10,000 bounty to break DPOS.... Join me.
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2014, 11:37:43 PM »
IMO, the OP is afraid of success of DPOS , His whole investment in BTC is in the verge of collapse. That is the reason why he wants to break the DPOS mania. Some FUD ers , but I3 has been working and focus on security issues so $10,000 is worth a try but that is just a SMALL and CHEAP (concept) bounty compare to the rewards that is waiting for each DAC investor.

I think he is generally interested in the security of DPOS myself: http://www.successcouncil.com/post.php?info=Max-Wrights-thoughts-on-the-Security-threats-of-Delegated-Proof-of-Stake-and-Bitshares

So not FUD, but rather a great marketing tactic. And I am agreed with toast that the whitepapers should be released before this bounty goes live.

Offline Gentso1

Re: I am putting up a $10,000 bounty to break DPOS.... Join me.
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2014, 01:07:40 AM »
If it works it will be a stroke of genius, if it fails it will be a death blow.If bm,toast and alt say it can't be broken then that is enough to convince me and it may be a worthy enough for everyone to get behind. The bounty is large enough that it will bring a fair amount of attention to bitshares.

Offline Method-X

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1131
  • VIRAL
    • View Profile
    • Learn to code
  • BTS: methodx
Re: I am putting up a $10,000 bounty to break DPOS.... Join me.
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2014, 01:31:35 AM »
Fellow marketer and copywriter here; couldn't agree with you more. We did an AMA in /r/BitcoinMarkets yesterday and it was a huge success. There is a LOT of interest in this project. BitShares has a way of capturing the imagination of crypto geeks in the same way Bitcoin did.

Quote
1. Marketing to non-bitcoin enthusiasts at this early stage is a waste of time.  The entry and exit ramps to btsx require bitcoin and that is where we must focus.

Yup. The language that gets early adopters hyped up and excited is completely different than the language that'll get the early majority excited.

Crypto geeks drool over:

  • Whitepaper
  • Delegated Proof of Stake
  • Market pegged assets
  • The word "experiment"
  • Decentralized Autonomous Companies




Right now we're the innovators and before we can talk to the early majority, we need to get the early adopters on board. We need to capture the imagination of the early adopters. Fortunately, BitShares is in a pretty damn good position to do this. We've got the technology and the innovative vision that'll capture the imaginations of old school crypto nerds like nothing else I'm aware of.

Quote
3. bitUSD may be very useful in getting the early masses on board but it has little appeal to early adoptors, innovators and bitcoin royalty. We should not focus marketing efforts on bitUSD at this time.

I disagree. BitAssets are exactly what brought me on board.

--------------------

As a long time copywriter, I would bill this as "the greatest experiment since bitcoin" and mostly focus on the market pegged assets. That said, a DPoS bounty is a fantastic publicity stunt. Do you want the hacker to disrupt the BitShares X blockchain to claim the bounty? Or do you want them to find a theoretical vulnerability without testing it. Attacking DPoS would likely cost much more than $10,000 or even $100,000 so I see little motivation.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 01:34:11 AM by MeTHoDx »

Offline Brent.Allsop

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 242
    • View Profile
    • Canonizer.com
Re: I am putting up a $10,000 bounty to break DPOS.... Join me.
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2014, 01:46:51 AM »

I like this idea, but you need to work out many of the details, first, otherwise it could be a desasters.

Say someone spends an inordinate amount of time and money, they manage to find a minor bug, like determinging who is voting for which deligates?  Which should not be awareded the rewared, but wonder if the y go to court, or worse, over such a disagreement?

Also, who are the devs which must do the matching?

Who / how is the decision going to be made about whether the award should be granted, or not?

Any partial awards????

If all of the above can be answered, definitively, so there is absolutely no possible misinterpretation by anyone, and if all the "devs" can match the entire funds provided by bitmarket, I would be willing to match an addition 10 BTC contributed by "devs".

Oh, and to the guy that volunteered to put up 1 million bitUSD for the prize, that sure is gracious of you, that will surely help this cause, too.  Or were you just volunerring someone elses $ million??




 

Google+