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Offline luckybit


I proposed this idea in another thread but I'll put it here so everyone can see it.

There are several debates now about whether or not the interface should say USD or BitUSD. CNY or BitCNY. Interest or Yield.

I think the answer is to isolate the problem. Developers can make the interface entirely customizable over time starting with the labels. If the user can rename their BitAssets to anything they want, and can rename interface components to anything they desire, then all legal issues, political issues, or marketing issues, can be resolved through decentralization and customization.

If you want to be bold you could use a skin which uses the labels you want. If you want to be a bit less bold you could use a skin which switches the labels around so that it looks like pokemon cards are BitAssets.

In this way it would no longer be a problem for the Bitshares team to worry about. They could focus on writing code and let the artist and marketing community make custom skins. Just as long as people know how each BitAsset operates and what it is tracking then it doesn't matter what people call it and artists can decide to call it different things in different countries.

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Offline xeroc

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What if I tell you that I send you 100 of MY bitBTC and those and up as 100 bitDOGE in your wallet?
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Offline luckybit

What if I tell you that I send you 100 of MY bitBTC and those and up as 100 bitDOGE in your wallet?

It wouldn't matter. A skin doesn't change the underlying functionality. Renaming BitAssets doesn't change the underlying code. So you could see your BitAssets as anything you like in your interface and I could see it as anything I like in my interface but we would both know the underlying assets.

So BitBTC would still be BitBTC no matter what I relabel it to be in my interface. Maybe I don't want BitBTC in my interface so I just label it Bitcoin? It doesn't change anything for you. If somehow I were to lose track of my labels I could always reset to default.


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Offline Method-X

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Plugins open up all sorts of security problems. What if I create a skin and it's really a macro that sends all of your BTSX to methodx?

Offline donkeypong

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I don't quite understand why people would want this. If I have 2 BitUSD, I could name them "George" and "Beyonce"? Doesn't this defeat the brand identity we are building and the sense that assets should be denominated in a common language for simple transferability? If someone creates BitShares Me, then that would be a place to float one's own assets. Frankly, I don't see a legal issue with the name BitUSD or any of the other asset proxies. If there were to be legal problems (which I doubt), then calling my dollars "George" or "Beyonce" isn't going to change some regulator's view of their function.

Offline luckybit

Plugins open up all sorts of security problems. What if I create a skin and it's really a macro that sends all of your BTSX to methodx?

Then write your own plugin. I don't see how it would open up security problems because all it would have the capability to do is skin the interface or rename stuff in the GUI. I think you misunderstand how things work because I'm not talking about "plugins" which interact with underlying market functionality. I'm asking for customizatability in the GUI which doesn't open up any security issues at all because many GUIs already have this functionality.

Why would I want it? Because I want to personalize my user experience.

I don't quite understand why people would want this. If I have 2 BitUSD, I could name them "George" and "Beyonce"? Doesn't this defeat the brand identity we are building and the sense that assets should be denominated in a common language for simple transferability? If someone creates BitShares Me, then that would be a place to float one's own assets. Frankly, I don't see a legal issue with the name BitUSD or any of the other asset proxies. If there were to be legal problems (which I doubt), then calling my dollars "George" or "Beyonce" isn't going to change some regulator's view of their function.
I think you're confused. BitUSD is always going to be BitUSD no matter what you personally label it in your interface. No matter what skin you used on Winamp the software still functioned the same way and the only difference is how it looks to the user. If the user thinks they'll go to jail because USD is mentioned in their interface and they wont use Bitshares X unless they can change it then we should let them.

As long as you know what it means what difference does it make? If you use Windows where you have the default skin or if you use a custom skin that should be up to you the user. If you've used Linux before then you know how customization can work but I suppose if you're coming from the Windows world you might not be used to this.

Some people like to personalize their interface whether to make it pretty or to give it a unique look and feel. Maybe you're not one of these people but there are a lot of people like this and it goes a long way to addressing issues where not everyone likes BitUSD as the label and might prefer USD, or just whatever. The more options we can give users to make things easier for them the better.

Quote

 If there were to be legal problems (which I doubt), then calling my dollars "George" or "Beyonce" isn't going to change some regulator's view of their function.

I tend to agree with this statement but it doesn't change the fact that some people cannot have certain words in their interface in certain countries. In the United States we could get away with removing "Bit" and just calling it USD but some people are too intimidated to go all the way with that.

The answer is to let each individual user customize their interface however they choose. Now you can label anything however you want, use any colors you like, make it look like a cartoony Doge style interface if you like, etc.

If you're concerned that somehow you could label your interface and then forget the meaning of the labels we could always include unique icons for each individual BitAsset. Icons preserve the same meaning all around the globe even if the labels can change.  Icons give you a whole range for artists to work with in terms of shape, color, etc so that it's unmistakable what the underlying assets are no matter what the labels say.

I suggest that a talented artist create a unique set of iconography similar to emoticons which can represent the concepts we are working with. We should standardize those icons and all skins should make use of the same icon scheme.
 
We need a universal language and here is how to do it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji <- Worlds first universal language.
http://info.sonicretro.org/Yuji_Naka_interview_by_Sega.com_(2001) <- Sega first used a universal language system in Phantasy Star Online with great success.

So just as we know across cultures what these symbols mean, maybe it's time for Bitshares community to develop it's own symbols. What symbol represents a DAC? What symbol represents a BitAsset? What symbol represents a UserAsset? What symbol represents the market? Each BitAsset should have it's own symbol, it's own icon, etc.

The %5 symbol for example is something we all know the meaning of at this point. BitUSD with that symbol could represent 5% interest on BitUSD without having to use the word "interest". Create a standard set of icon designs, with standardized symbols we all agree upon, then all skins will simply work within the standard.



« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 05:50:27 PM by luckybit »
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Offline donkeypong

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I understand the personalization aspect in terms of it maybe appealing to peoples' styles. But from a legal angle in some of those "certain countries" you mention, trouble would come from the function, not the name. Are people really naive enough to think that if they hold Georges in their wallets, that the customized name protects them from liability? In those "certain countries", I am pretty sure that engaging in the transaction would be proof enough. In some places, they'd prosecute anyone with a wallet. Anyone with a computer! My point is that if this is going to occur, it would occur anyway, and the name wouldn't change that outcome. Would people really believe otherwise? Again, if you want a cool-looking skin, go for it, but the legal angle isn't a good reason for it.

Offline luckybit

I understand the personalization aspect in terms of it maybe appealing to peoples' styles. But from a legal angle in some of those "certain countries" you mention, trouble would come from the function, not the name. Are people really naive enough to think that if they hold Georges in their wallets, that the customized name protects them from liability? In those "certain countries", I am pretty sure that engaging in the transaction would be proof enough. In some places, they'd prosecute anyone with a wallet. Anyone with a computer! My point is that if this is going to occur, it would occur anyway, and the name wouldn't change that outcome. Would people really believe otherwise? Again, if you want a cool-looking skin, go for it, but the legal angle isn't a good reason for it.

If trouble will come from the function then wouldn't they ban Bitcoin first? Bitcoin is higher profile and it's a lot easier to determine the function of Bitcoin. Bitshares has a function but it doesn't mean the average person is going to grasp it unless it's explained to them. So you're right that there is a function but if education is decentralized then people can educate their own countries as to the function.

In the United States Bitshares is just another decentralized app. Unless they ban the Internet itself along with Bittorrent there is no precedent for banning Bitshares. I do recognize not every country is like the United States and apparently even within the United States we are having debates about what words should be in the interface of a DAC?

The answer in my opinion is to use a universal language to speak the concepts through Emoji. This icon language will help us to educate ourselves and others to the concepts. It would also give artists something to do with their talents to benefit the community.

Whether you believe it's effective or not if you look at emoticons or emoji it seems most people (especially younger people) know that language. They know the language all around the world too and not just in the USA.

The Bitcoin logo is basically the only symbol that people know right now which is a problem. We have to explain deep concepts and I think visual representations of those concepts can only help us teach it. I think also it's just good for ease of use because suppose a person cannot read but they know the different icons and symbols.

If you really believe the legal angle isn't influenced by the words used then why are we shying away from certain words and having debates over and over about words used? People had a debate over whether or not to use the phrase "Decentralized autonomous corporation" so now we have all these different phrases for a DAC.

Now DAC means decentralized autonomous corporation, decentralized autonomous community, decentralized autnomous organization, decentralized application. Why not just have one symbol which means DAC and then we don't have to fight over which words to use? It would save us time and end these debates for good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbnVbmMaA_g
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adinkra_symbols

See? If we just had standardized symbols for all assets and concepts we would be fine. Websites have symbols now right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favicon . Maybe Bitshares X and related technologies would be easier to teach and use if we had some of that.

« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 06:31:32 PM by luckybit »
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Offline Method-X

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I don't quite understand why people would want this. If I have 2 BitUSD, I could name them "George" and "Beyonce"? Doesn't this defeat the brand identity we are building and the sense that assets should be denominated in a common language for simple transferability? If someone creates BitShares Me, then that would be a place to float one's own assets. Frankly, I don't see a legal issue with the name BitUSD or any of the other asset proxies. If there were to be legal problems (which I doubt), then calling my dollars "George" or "Beyonce" isn't going to change some regulator's view of their function.

Lucky is suggesting the custom naming be done only on YOUR end. If I send you 10 Beyonce, they'll show up on your end as 10 BitUSD (or whatever YOU named them).

Offline donkeypong

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OK. I think it seems kind of silly. But if you guys believe that it's important, then objectively I must agree with you that it would be important to others.

Offline luckybit

OK. I think it seems kind of silly. But if you guys believe that it's important, then objectively I must agree with you that it would be important to others.

It's not silly at all. People tend to like options which improve their user experience. Just like the person who posted saying names matter? To them it matters.

So if names matter to some people we shouldn't force any language on them. In fact a person should be able to use Bitshares even if they can't speak English or Chinese. Icons are necessary to create a universal language to allow anyone to use Bitshares.

As far as the legal argument goes? It could all be psychological and paranoia on the parts of people but if that is the case the only thing we could do is help them to customize their experience so they don't feel that way anymore. As long as there is the underlying icon based language it doesn't matter what you call things.

DACs? Call it what you want but if you see the DAC symbol you know what it is just by looking at the symbol. If the symbol is very descriptive by design then even if you never heard of a DAC before you would look at the symbol and instantly get it.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 06:22:21 PM by luckybit »
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Offline Shentist

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i don't see it now

Offline testz


...
There are several debates now about whether or not the interface should say USD or BitUSD. CNY or BitCNY. Interest or Yield.

Do you think naming like BitDSU and BitYNC (or BitUqSD and BitCqNY) can solve any legal issues  :)

Offline donkeypong

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...
There are several debates now about whether or not the interface should say USD or BitUSD. CNY or BitCNY. Interest or Yield.

Do you think naming like BitDSU and BitYNC (or BitUqSD and BitCqNY) can solve any legal issues  :)

Secret Service guys : Mr. President ,some one is selling BitDSU for a large volume .
Obama : BitDSU? Never heard of it,some kind of bitcoin ?Let it be .....Don't bother me again.
-------
Secret Service guys :Mr. President ,some one is selling BitUSD for a large volume .
Obama :What the heck ? Find me some laws to crush them ...any law !
 :P

BitShares Marketing: "Come check out BitDSU!"
Potential Member: "What the **** is that?"
BitShares Marketing: The famous market peg.
Potential Member: "Are you guys dyslexic or something?"
BitShares Marketing: "Someone in development thought BitDSU was cute. Throws the regulators off the scent, I guess."
Potential Member: "I think I'll pass. Call me again when there's a fork that isn't run by word scramblers."

 

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