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Offline bytemaster

Chess DAC
« on: September 22, 2014, 01:14:37 PM »

The Chess DAC is a large multi-player chess game where all players can play *both sides* of one large DAC-wide game.

Players bet on the winner (black or white) when they make a move.   Each "turn" is an auction where people pay to move a piece.   Which ever move has the largest balance is the move that is made.   All funds contributed go into a winnings pot and give the submitter either "white shares" or "black shares".   

When the game is "won" the pot is divided among the shares of the winning color.

This game as an interesting twist:  you can bid on both sides and thus attempt to cause the other side to "make a mistake".   

From a gambling perspective the outcome of the game is unpredictable and from a players perspective it poses new challenges.  People can create "chess bots" and join a "team".

If someone is gutsy enough they can pay enough to win every auction and "control the game"...  there can be many attempts to "game" the "game" and that all turns into user engagement.    The game will have a relatively high "rake" which will make it unprofitable to control both sides with high bids and thus forcing people to "pick a side" if they want to win.

The color with less bids (fewer white shares or black shares) has a higher payout-per-share and thus the risk/reward of joining a losing side balances out and keeps the game evenly matched.

I suspect you will have to "pre-purchase" white-shares or black-shares prior to the start of the game and then use those shares to bid on moves in-game.  This will prevent new bets from diluting old bets once the odds change. 

For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline cgafeng

Re: Chess DAC
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2014, 01:17:55 PM »
wow
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Offline xfund

Re: Chess DAC
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2014, 01:47:10 PM »
 +5%
Asset:FUND

Offline serejandmyself

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Re: Chess DAC
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2014, 01:53:14 PM »
I dont get what is the point. Who would play a game if they knew from satrt the outcome is predicted by bets and not by skills
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Chess DAC
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2014, 02:11:05 PM »
I dont get what is the point. Who would play a game if they knew from satrt the outcome is predicted by bets and not by skills

This is nothing more than "team chess" where members of a team have to "vote" on the move.   So the outcome is based upon the skills of the voters.

You bet on a team (picking your team) prior to the game starting.   Then you vote on moves, but rather than using "approval voting" you can either vote the same amount on every move or you can vote your entire game-stake on a single move.   

So the outcome of the game depends upon the combined skills of a team.     
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Riverhead

Re: Chess DAC
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2014, 02:15:51 PM »
I dont get what is the point. Who would play a game if they knew from satrt the outcome is predicted by bets and not by skills

I think there is skill. It's basically chess by committee. People in the know will vote for the best move reaching a consensus. Those not skilled or who are trying to sabotage the other side would have to go against the consensus at incredible cost.

Offline Riverhead

Re: Chess DAC
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2014, 02:23:30 PM »
I never thought of creating a DAC like this. It seems my PTS/BTSX shares are just realizing more and more potential.

What other games to people typically bet on? Dominos? Backgammon?

Offline speedy

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Re: Chess DAC
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2014, 02:50:07 PM »
Can I pick a side half way through a game to support?

Then can I choose later to vote on the opposite side's move either because I have decided that side is more likely to win so Im switching my support, or Im trying to sabotage that side?

This sounds like it could be a lot of fun to play, as well as quite profitable as a DAC.

Offline CLains

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Re: Chess DAC
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2014, 03:14:51 PM »
Interesting. So either closed teams or unrestricted access to the game, and in both cases each player can bet each turn on a move, but they only bet before the game on black or white.

I guess one could test this game with a friend, to see how much one would spend trying to sabotage for the opponent instead of focusing on ones own moves.

The "auction" would have to be blind, move revealed after all bets? Closed teams can at any point brute-force a move, so it becomes a game of not being "one move away from losing."

First two moves would see 0 bets. Then it would be a matter of all-in when game is 2 moves from check-mate. The only question is how much do you bet on the first, and how much on the second move.

Say black is check mate if black moves X and white moves Y. And let us say both teams know this. black would need to have more funds that white when it is white's turn if black moves X. So either they go all in, sure to avoid black to X. Or they save ALL their cash to make white move some other way. Or they have to gamble, ...

Offline G1ng3rBr34dM4n

Re: Chess DAC
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2014, 04:59:29 PM »
This is awesome!!

Can you imagine a team of grand masters playing both sides... :D

Offline oldman

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Re: Chess DAC
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2014, 05:36:02 PM »
This is an incredible concept that could go viral if marketed well.  +5%

Offline bytemaster

Re: Chess DAC
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2014, 05:40:15 PM »
Interesting. So either closed teams or unrestricted access to the game, and in both cases each player can bet each turn on a move, but they only bet before the game on black or white.

I guess one could test this game with a friend, to see how much one would spend trying to sabotage for the opponent instead of focusing on ones own moves.

The "auction" would have to be blind, move revealed after all bets? Closed teams can at any point brute-force a move, so it becomes a game of not being "one move away from losing."

First two moves would see 0 bets. Then it would be a matter of all-in when game is 2 moves from check-mate. The only question is how much do you bet on the first, and how much on the second move.

Say black is check mate if black moves X and white moves Y. And let us say both teams know this. black would need to have more funds that white when it is white's turn if black moves X. So either they go all in, sure to avoid black to X. Or they save ALL their cash to make white move some other way. Or they have to gamble, ...

The OP is a bit confusing because halfway through writing it I realized that all bets must be placed PRIOR to the start of the game and that once all black/white shares are allocated then those shares can be used to vote on moves (only one vote per share per game).   

With this approach the I don't think you would ever be able to profitably play for the opposing team.   The teams would have to "ration their votes" because if you run out of votes early and the "attacker" can draw out the game, then they may control the critical votes toward the end of the game.   
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline rysgc

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Re: Chess DAC
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2014, 05:58:26 PM »
Sounds nice, but I think it won't take long before automated chess bots take over the votes for the next move.
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Offline Riverhead

Re: Chess DAC
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2014, 06:05:27 PM »
Sounds nice, but I think it won't take long before automated chess bots take over the votes for the next move.

I remember back in the late eighties or early 90's there was a popular AI scripting game where your AI bot would battle other AI bots for survival on the mainframe.  This reminds me a bit of that...wish I could remember the name...

Offline bytemaster

Re: Chess DAC
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2014, 06:08:12 PM »
Sounds nice, but I think it won't take long before automated chess bots take over the votes for the next move.

Yes... but you are still betting on a team and the there would be a level of unpredictability.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

 

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