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Offline barwizi

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Where are we going?
« on: November 20, 2013, 11:54:54 PM »

Today there was much discussion about the next step, bytemaster made a few proposals that were met with mixed responses. As users, miners and investors you should all speak up and let your vies, concerns and questions be heard.

Now, on to Business. I see that protoshares have started to settle in, Powershares are on the drawing board, but i'd like to ring attention to my previous idea. Powershares is an experiment so it can't really be a step forward. My previuos idea was met with resistance yet i failed to get a real reason why. People mentioned the whole DAC stuff, but  i think they are confusing currency and business. Either way, i re-propose (Now with a name) Metashares.

Concept

With the success of bytemasters' algo that onlly suffered due to unexpected interest, i intend to normalize money supply by imposing more dynamic restrictions. By observing a period of 2 hours of mining, if blocks were flying by at twice the target time, then block reward is lowered by half. If the blocks were moving slower, say at a third of the target time, then block reward is tripled. This period can be reduced to 1 hour or even the steep 30 minute window in order to ward off users of instances.

Coupled with this would be a high starting difficulty that should reduce the extreme differences seen in  most coins between early adopters and the guys who come in after a few days. With relatively faster block times we'll see a reasonable increase in tx time but we'll try remain in range of what is considered adaquately secure.

was asked what this currency is for. I maintain that it should be a speculative one in the beginning, perhaps later it may be used for a project by Invictus or anyone else that wants a chain that is already in motion. Value is something we as users bestow on an item, I cannot come out of the box and declare a price for Metashares. To one, they will try to jump in and mine then dump. To another, they will spend 0.1 BTC buying some on the chance that they may become worth 10 BTC in the future or perhaps even more.

i think to use a crypto as a medium of exchange, it has to be an established one with users ready and a secure network. even if it is just a few hundred nodes, it is a starting point. Many DACs will fail due to issues of raising capital. Myself i have spent an excess of money attaing a banking license and the necesarry articles, but for the forseeable future there will be little or no movement at all. 

I have no huge expectations. 
--Bar--  PiNEJGUv4AZVZkLuF6hV4xwbYTRp5etWWJ

The magical land of crypto, no freebies people.

Offline Lighthouse

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Re: Where are we going?
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2013, 12:59:07 AM »
Experiments are how we discover the right course forward.  The experiment you want to try is basically a control compared to other experiments.  You ask "Is it the vehicle (the cryptocurrency) or the social contract honored by a company that gives value to the thing?"

I think you will find that there are many speculative vehicles and your project offers nothing to differentiate besides fitting your personal criteria for fairness, but lacking the thing that made fair distribution something that even mattered, a purpose to hold (the social contract).

What about your coin is better than Litecoin?
Before you say the price of PTS is too high, take a look at theThe Reason.  Protoshares are an entirely new type of Cryptocurrency, one that pays to hold.

Offline barwizi

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Re: Where are we going?
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2013, 05:42:51 AM »
Experiments are how we discover the right course forward.  The experiment you want to try is basically a control compared to other experiments.  You ask "Is it the vehicle (the cryptocurrency) or the social contract honored by a company that gives value to the thing?"

I think you will find that there are many speculative vehicles and your project offers nothing to differentiate besides fitting your personal criteria for fairness, but lacking the thing that made fair distribution something that even mattered, a purpose to hold (the social contract).

What about your coin is better than Litecoin?

well, apart from the fact that they are both forks of something, i see no other similarities. I mined quite a lot of LTC back in the day, and i know full well what went on there.
The very ideas behind them are different, LTC is meant either as an improvement or a replacement for BTC, and in my opinion it has quite a ways to go. I am not headed there, as i said it is purely speculative in the beginning, should need arise later for a currency there will be one already functioning. By using this model one could cut down the costs of securing a network by half if not more, also as the currency progresses , bugs are figured out and fixed such that at a time it is picked for use, it is already ripe for the pickings.

With all that in mind, i've already pm'ed some guys that understand the code base better than me to see if this can be merge-mined. I once tried to do it myself for scrypt,  the ideas  died....it never stood up again. With adaquate funding though, these ideas could be explored in depth and maybe solutions created.

Experimenting is one way, do tell me what is wrong with branching off in my own way? The DAC idea is great, but i think a currency should be secured before it becomes a company's preffered payment method.
--Bar--  PiNEJGUv4AZVZkLuF6hV4xwbYTRp5etWWJ

The magical land of crypto, no freebies people.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Where are we going?
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2013, 07:05:37 AM »
Please define 'secured'?

We are integrating lessons learned from ProtoShares into a new experimental DAC that will address a lot of the issues and try them out.    If you would like to help build our next generation experiment we would love to work with you, but our social contract of honoring ProtoShares in the genesis block of all new chains is not something we are willing to compromise on.   Our next 'Test DAC' we believe will provide a very valuable service in a new market area while proving more ideas behind BitShares. 

We are going to release a Request for Proposals on this next DAC in the next few days.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline barwizi

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Re: Where are we going?
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2013, 07:33:48 AM »
Please define 'secured'?

We are integrating lessons learned from ProtoShares into a new experimental DAC that will address a lot of the issues and try them out.    If you would like to help build our next generation experiment we would love to work with you, but our social contract of honoring ProtoShares in the genesis block of all new chains is not something we are willing to compromise on.   Our next 'Test DAC' we believe will provide a very valuable service in a new market area while proving more ideas behind BitShares. 

We are going to release a Request for Proposals on this next DAC in the next few days.

Hehe, i just had an idea and posted it again, i can jump in on the train. If i have it right, it means making a fork of Proto by taking a block from the chain and making it the genesis of the new chain. in effect this may open up merged mining avenues. I'm not sure how the merkle will fit into all  of this, but i am sure we can use it.


the new chain will carry over the data from the older chain and then additional generated blocks will be added onto the inintials coming in with the genesis. But this effectively means that proto mined after this block will not be usable with the new chain. but considering that half the chain has been mined already that may not be so bad. Also once the coins  have been moved to the new chain, i doubt they will be backwards compatible.
--Bar--  PiNEJGUv4AZVZkLuF6hV4xwbYTRp5etWWJ

The magical land of crypto, no freebies people.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Where are we going?
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2013, 07:58:21 AM »
You seem to understand most of the mechanics.  From the date one chain is cloned into the genesis block of the next chain the positions are divergent and a spend in the PTS chain will not be reflected in the PTS2 chain and this is by design.

For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline barwizi

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Re: Where are we going?
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2013, 08:16:26 AM »
meh, i go through the code sometimes. so, who is on the dev team? What is the timeline and can i get a full list of the expectations? oh and i advocate imposing a floor on the tx per block, hard coding so this 1 tx per block thing cannot be repeated.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 08:40:05 AM by barwizi »
--Bar--  PiNEJGUv4AZVZkLuF6hV4xwbYTRp5etWWJ

The magical land of crypto, no freebies people.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Where are we going?
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2013, 08:40:39 AM »
meh, i go through the code sometimes. so, who is on the dev team? What is the timeline and can i get a full list of the expectations? oh and i advocate imposing a floor on the tx per block, hard coding so this 1 tx per block thing cannot be repeated.

Dev Team for what? 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline barwizi

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Re: Where are we going?
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2013, 08:55:12 AM »
meh, i go through the code sometimes. so, who is on the dev team? What is the timeline and can i get a full list of the expectations? oh and i advocate imposing a floor on the tx per block, hard coding so this 1 tx per block thing cannot be repeated.

Dev Team for what?
who is making your experiment? and when can we expect it? i am willing to try.
--Bar--  PiNEJGUv4AZVZkLuF6hV4xwbYTRp5etWWJ

The magical land of crypto, no freebies people.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Where are we going?
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2013, 09:35:53 AM »
meh, i go through the code sometimes. so, who is on the dev team? What is the timeline and can i get a full list of the expectations? oh and i advocate imposing a floor on the tx per block, hard coding so this 1 tx per block thing cannot be repeated.

Dev Team for what?
who is making your experiment? and when can we expect it? i am willing to try.

We are defining the SPECS now, but the next experiment will be a dividend paying crypto currency with a 2 week vesting period combined with the loto-mining twist to encourage solo-miners over pools.   
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline andhar

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Re: Where are we going?
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2013, 11:23:03 AM »
This sounds very interesting. Keeping my eyes peeled and my computer ready  8)

Offline barwizi

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Re: Where are we going?
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2013, 03:35:54 PM »
This sounds very interesting. Keeping my eyes peeled and my computer ready  8)
 

i thought we'd make this one mineable by calculators only.....
--Bar--  PiNEJGUv4AZVZkLuF6hV4xwbYTRp5etWWJ

The magical land of crypto, no freebies people.

Offline Mrrr

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Re: Where are we going?
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2013, 05:15:16 PM »
This sounds very interesting. Keeping my eyes peeled and my computer ready  8)
 

i thought we'd make this one mineable by calculators only.....

Hear hear. I've always wanted to rent myself a sweatshop.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Where are we going?
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2013, 05:41:00 PM »
This sounds very interesting. Keeping my eyes peeled and my computer ready  8)
 

i thought we'd make this one mineable by calculators only.....

Now there is a very calculated move.   Are you sure this wouldn't favor the TI-89 users over those with solar power 4 function calculators?  I just worry that it might result in too much centralization.   And how do you plan to solve bugs caused by overweight trailer trash fat fingering things?     Perhaps we should require an abacus? 
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

vegasbitcoin

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Re: Where are we going?
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2013, 07:01:03 PM »

People pool for consistent earnings.
All this lotto stuff seems to encourage pools even more.

Would I not just create PTSv2.0MiningPoolDAC ?
The pool would mine to its DACWallet.
And issue shares to pool members in proportion to their contributions.



 

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