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Offline gamey

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Right now this is being done on an experimental basis with some helpful Chinese guys.  I've transcribing part of the show now because it has been requested to aid in translations.  The part that is transcribed is what I think is the most important and highest level information.  I won't be transcribing highly technical questions etc because it is simply too much work.

So I was doing this in private, but I think making it as a TASKFORCE is useful because we might find a volunteer for other communities that do not have a large percentage of English speakers.  It also provides some of the transparency and highlights the global community building that is going on with Bitshares.
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Offline gamey

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Show with some transcription to aid anyone who wishes to translate into small radio show.  Willaim has volunteered for this for Chinese, but I'm also putting this out there for any Russian or Spanish community leaders, etc.  There are others doing written translations.  Thank you everyone!


Show starts

BM - It has been a crazy week of development and updates.  We've been making significant strides to the market maker and order matching engines.  Both of which are updated this week.  I think we have one more issue that is going to be deployed this weekend with a fix and it will be there.

Fuz asks - What is being fixed ?

BM - Sometimes there are sitautions where shorts do not get matched.

BM - Otherwise we have a giant short wall.  BitUSD is holding very well and close to one dollar.  Plus or minus 1 dollar.  I am quite pleased with that.  It is possible for market makers to make money while generally being long on Bitshares X.  The main thing we are looking at now is ways of further enhancing the network and the peg and to level the playing field for all parties.  The biggest challenge we have for BitUSD is of course liquidity.  The primary reason it is not liquid is people want to go short and they don't want to cover.  They want to stay short.  The  people that bought the bitUSD however want to get back in and out of Bitshares X to perhaps trade the market.  Sometimes they have trouble finding a buyer.  The market makers are helping with that but we need to encourage shorts to provide liquidity. I  think we need to see shorts as liquidity providers as their primary goal and purpose.  They get the benefit to go short but they have also have a corresponding obligation to provide liquidity to the people that they borrowed the dollars from.  You can think of the people with BitUSD as lenders and the shorts at the borrowers.  The borrowers were basically saying I don't have to pay you back, ever, unless a margin call occurs.  So we are looking at adding a 1 month maximum time at which you are able to maintain sa hort. At which point you have to cover and go short agin.  The benefits of this will be to encourage the shorts to look for good buying opportunities to rpvoide liquidity earlier as opposed to holding out to the end of the month at which point they are forced to cover at the market rate at that time.  There is no fee associated with covering the short or expiration.  This also aids in forcing collateral for shorts to maintain competitive collateral at all times.  They can not get in a losing short position and stay their with low collateral.  At the end of the month they have to cover and take their losses.  If they want to short again they have to provide collateral.  I think overall it will make the sstem mover stable, more liquid and it effectively charges longterm shorts (those holding over 1 month) a fee proportional to the spread.  The smaller the spread the lower the fee.  The wider the spread the higher the fee.  If there is a high spread because no one is providing liquidity then it is going to discourage shorts from creating more.  If there is high liquidity then it means the shorts are doing their job.  Overall I think it means there is one additional tweak to what we are learning while going through this process of learning how the market responds to various aspects and rules.

4:35 Usually when you short there is a fee that is assessed upfront, why wait a month ?
5:20 Whats keeping someone from creating bots to create bots to cover and reshort ?  Explain the monthly limit.
6:55 Talk of the bots that have been posted and released.  How about a shorting bot ?  How would it work ?
8:09 Will tweaks to bots be submitted to github ?
8:55 Another thing we are working on is a new transaction type.  This is not a hard fork, just a wallet upgrade that allows you to simultaneously cancel multiple orders and place new orders.  It should help with the bots and transaction fees. 

9:13 BM  - The other big event of the week is Nubits. 
Bytemaster's official prognosis – It will likely be a raging success until it is not.  The fundamental economics of Nubits is consistent  inflation.  The supply of Nubits is always increasing and never decreasing and there is no way to settle it.  There is always a need to find another buyer, another holder.  The way they incentivize  finding more bag holders is creating more bag holders.  Giving you a bigger bag to hold.  Everyone works as long as people thinks they can sell them in the future.  I suspect it is not as reliable as BitUSD in the long run.  BitUSD at least has a mechanism to go back to 0 bit USD and takes them off the market.  The people who are creating them are assuming risk when they do so. 

With Nubits, the creators of Nubits vote to create more.  If they vote to create too much then the interest would go very high which is basically a vote to create more.  So if the make a mistake and overestimate the demand for Nubits and print up too many it is just round and round.  The Nubit holders themselves have no say and are completely at the whim of the Nushare holders.  Overall, the system closely resembles a Ponzi scheme.  I do not throw that around lightly.  Primarily the only way to sustain their peg is to find more and more buyers.  I caution people in investing in Nubits.  They are not going to go up because they are pegged to the dollar.  The reason to buy Nubits would be for the interest they pay you.  The whole operation seems shady to me, so I would urge caution there.

12:14 Do you think there is a risk to Peercoin by Nubits ?
12:52 Lets highlight the difference in approaches between nubits vs the collateralization approach.
15:08 Dan points out how in fairness, Bitshares X has been called a ponzi scheme.
16:45 People were claiming nubits could fund development of peercoin and family, thoughts ?
21:03 How explaining things in the company metaphor helps in aiding the explanation of Bitshares X relative to other products.
23:40 Does Nubits hyper inflation affect Nushare price ?
25:20  Joking talk about a BitNuBit and being able to short it.
26:00 Is it possible to make an API for outside exchanges ?
27:55 What is the relation between I3 and the developers of Music DAC ?
29:30 Discussion of changes made

BM - Lets discuss planned updates to the toolkit that will not necessarily make it into Bitshares X because of the social contract against printing Bitshares X. I wanted to add the ability to short anything against anything.  Including shorting Bitshares X against bitUSD …  or bitGLD or whatever.  So the idea of that is that the bitAssets are now collateralized not just by Bitshares x or shares in the DAC, but by all the other assets in the system. Which means that everything is backed by a basket of assets instead of a single asset.  Which means that if any single asset falls in value dramatically it does not affect the entire backing of the assets.

30:52 Why would the social contract prohibit the previous mentioned improvement ?  Discussion on the 2 camps in the community and their wishes.  How about over-leveraging the system with catastrophic effects ?
40:55 Can we have a feature that allows shareholders to propose a poll on the blockchain to vote on ? 
43:00 What about Dacsunlimited cloning Bitshares X into other coins to maximize value to Bitshares X holders ?

BM - Thats equivalent to the market approach of polling the userbase to see what they want.  I suppose what people will do is they'll jump from one ship to another depending on what policy they prefer.  If they are worried about inflation then they might dump that one and buy the deflationary one or vice versa.  If they like both then they might stay with both and see where they go.  However, I do not wish to encourage a split at this time, it fragments the userbase,  The shares  are not usable across the 2 DACS, the exchanges have to now list 2 currencies, and we have 2 codebases to maintain.  So I am not really interested in that.  Most of this conversation is hypothetical in nature, but it is something that should be discussed because of the 10 rules.  If a system is more competitive and someone thinks they can do it then they will do it.  All coin and coin holders  are responsible for adapting to market conditions as they may be.

45:55 Regarding DDOS attacks, how does POW compare to DPOS in regards to resiliency to attacks ?
50:05 What role are the delegates who are not in top 101 and can be they be analyzed as easily ?
51:03 It is likely Bitcoin will switch to DPOS and what effect would it have on Bitshares ?

BM - I think it would be unlikely they would switch to DPOS.  The architecture is just too different.  I would expect them to switch something closer to peercoin before DPOS. I don't think bitcoin has the ability to fund the development necessary to make such a sweeping change and get all participants on board.  I think in the free market, the only way to upgrade Bitcoin is to out compete it in the market.

53:20 The market overview page in the GUI, are there plans to make it nicer looking ?

BM - Yes! Yes! Yes! There are certainly plan to make that better.  I have hated that page.. but.. uhm we are focused on functionality before aesthetics.  So that is where all our priority has been.

54:00 Daniel Larimer starts to departs but says one last thing.
 
BM - I thank everyone for showing and apologize for being 20 minutes late.  All I can say is the stuff we are planning is big and it will be hard to compete with.  We are doing the best we can to provide value and innovate.  I think that the number one thing we have is being agile to respond to market forces instead of being rigid and I think you will see that working to our advantage in the months ahead.

55:10 Post show starts.  Talk of Cob from Music DAC will be coming next week.  Talk of his his new non-technical whitepaper and how impressive it is. https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9360.0 
An open discussion largely about Music DAC.  A viewer thinks the possibility might be larger than Bitshares X?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 07:18:05 PM by gamey »
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Offline fuzzy

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Offline xeroc

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wow .. could we have a website with the soundcloud and the transcript(s)
I know there are plenty of services on the net where you can translate texts easily .. maybe add an account there ..
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Offline gamey

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wow .. could we have a website with the soundcloud and the transcript(s)
I know there are plenty of services on the net where you can translate texts easily .. maybe add an account there ..

The problem is getting full transcripts.  I do not have motivation.  I just try to type as fast as I can and go back and edit errors.  It is a bit LOL seeing me attack the keyboard. 

Right now you can go to the soundcloud account and see all the shows we've made.

Full transcripts would be quite useful.  I know we have a huge amount of Chinese users, but not sure about other countries.  Although there was a poll for that, but I can't find it.  Having people transcribe text is pretty boring, so... would be nice to have inflation model DAC pay for it. :)
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Offline gamey

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I hope I got this all right.  If the translation doesn't make sense then think it over.   Please translate and spread !  If there is no mention of who is talking then assume BM = bytemaster.


BM – It has been quite the ride but I am becoming more and more confident on converging on a system that is going to be unstoppable. I am really excited about how it is all working.  Major Updates – All shorts have to cover after 30 days.  They can reshort if they want to, but they can not maintain a short position indefinitely.  This will increase liquidity for bitUSD holders wanting to sell.  They know within 30 days of a massive increase in supply of bitUSD there will be buyers looking to take … out of circulation. 

Instead of using collateral to proritize short positions, we are going to use interest rates to prioritize short postiions while increasing the default backing from 2x to 3x as the compromise approach between the 2 systems.  The primary reason for this is is that increasing collateral provides less and less utility, if you go to 1000x collateral it is only barely better than 100x collateral, which is only barely better than 10x.  You get your biggest gain when you go from 1x to 3x.  It very quickly becomes diminishing returns on the value gained.  The probability of volatility going beyond that range approaches 0 very quickly. 

Question – Last week, you talked of backing assets with a basket of bit assets?  Is that still in the works.

That is effectively allowing shorting bitUSD with any other bitasset as collateral.  That is still on the table and would also use the interest rate mechanism for prioritizing shorts in those different markets. So those different markets would have different interest rates. So it will be very interesting to see how it all plays out  ?

Question – So if short positions are competing for space on the interest they give to the bitUSD holders – are there then different bitUSDs floating around the market with the different interests?

BM - BitUSD will pay the holders of BitUSD the average of all the interest paid.

Question – Could you clarify ?

We have discussed the possibility of having a bitAsset that defined a fixed interest rate and is pegged to a constantly growing value relative to the dollar – a constantly growing multiple of the dollar.  We are not doing that.  Price fixing is problematic.  There is a 2 dimensional market we have going on here.  You have the price of the dollar vs bitshares x and then you have the price of interest.  How do you match a 2 dimensional market ?  So what we are doing is having an auction on how much interest on what people are willing to pay at the price fee (feed?) and that affects when people can short sell and then of course we have the free floating market of long long which can do whatever it wants.   USD can sell itself at whatever price it wants and bitUSD can sell at what price it wants.  So now we have a 2 dimensional market.  One is set with an option which is a price discovery mechanism and the other is set with a  bid/ask.  So we have produced a system that is as free market and trust free as possible that discovers how much interest shorts are willing to pay and if people are starting (?) with  bitUSD how much they demand to hold.  So bitUSD demands to grow, based on the shorts and offerings, and so both parties are happy. I think that is a very solid compromise on the 2 systems.  And it only makes sense that if you view bitUSD as a loan or IOU from the network, then the people who are borrowing should pay interest and those who are  holding it should receive interests.  The debt should never have an infinite term.  You now have to pay it off and there is a 1 term month on the debt so it is constantly rotating. So I think we have a pretty good system there.

Quesiton - When a margin is called, the bitUSD is effectively destroyed and the Bitshares X goes to the person  that held the bitUSD before the margin was called.  Then that person, would have Bitshares X?

Right – When you cover you get Bitshares X.


Question – What gives value to the NOTES in Bitshares Music ?

Notes get their value because they are used as collateral for the bitUSD used in the system that pays for the shares.  They also get their value from transaction fees.  Bitshares Music has value for the same reason Bitshares X has value.  It is 2 different user bases and it has 2 different marketing angles.  Bitshares Music is customized or the music industry, to target listeners of music.

BM – I want to discuss a proposed marketing strategy.  To give you guys an idea of what I am thinking ?  Have you guys been following the recent post on bitsharestalk ?  “What is a user worth?”  The idea is that the network effect is worth something and that the value of the system grows with n squared (n^2) users in the system.  Lots of companies have used this to great effect.  If you can buy a user and get them to buy into your system and then retain a large percentage of them then you can get a huge leg up on your competition.  It takes a lot of time to go from 1 to 2 to 4 to 8 to 16 to 32 etc, but if you can get a jump start to go past the first 5 steps, then you can grow on the same level that takes 5 years in 1 year and then you are on the same trajectory as bitcoin or ahead of bitcoin. So the question is can you buy users and what are there costs ?  And how might we go about trying to buy users ?

So if we could find – I am not saying this is happening, this is just a hypothetical – if we can find a partner who will allow you to pay a credit card billl with bitUSD and if we provide cash back or bonus for those who pay their bill in bitUSD, and we then provide a referral fee for those who signed up and pay for bitUSD.  Now you have a viral referral network that is very similar to how paypal worked.  Paypal gave everyone $10 just to sign-up and if you referred a friend you would get another $10.  And of course you can refer multiple friends.  They ended up paying $25 per customer and they grew dramatically.  On the order of 7 to 10% per month or something ridiculous, a 100 million users. 

User – I launched a financial services app.  We grew from 0 to 10,000 users over the course of 6 months.  What I found was the biggest barrier to that first initial growth, was mobile integration.  We sort of lost virality without a mobile solution, so I was wondering, Dan do you have any thoughts in that direction ?  For onramps and the client ?

BM – First step in that direction is to build the light weight app that doesn't require you to download the whole blockchain.  Once we have that, we can build a web-based app that gives you a web based wallet whicih you can access from your phone.   Finally a phone based app.  It might actually be easier to do a phone based app now that I think about it.   That is very high priority on our list of things to do.

Question – What about BitSapphire and their web wallet plans ?

Itnom from BitSapphire talks -

Yes, I can speak about web wallets.  The idea is like the original Bitshares X wallet but for a different user base.  It will not have have equal support for delegates and the financial incentives for trading etc.  It will not be aimed at the hardcore crypto-geeks, but will be aimed those who are used to used to Paypal and e-commerce platforms. 
BM – What is your status ?

Itnom – We have payments integration done in a week or 2.  Then we need to integrate angular.  We want to make it as modular as possible so that it will be a framework for future DACS and not just limited to Bitshares X.


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Offline tonyk

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Impressive work!!!! +5%

This user was actually *pollux * :
User – I launched a financial services app.  We grew from 0 to 10,000 users over the course of 6 months.  What I found was the biggest barrier to that first initial growth, was mobile integration.  We sort of lost virality without a mobile solution, so I was wondering, Dan do you have any thoughts in that direction ?  For onramps and the client ?


Delete this post after updating or whatever.

Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline fuzzy

Impressive work!!!! +5%

This user was actually *pollux * :
User – I launched a financial services app.  We grew from 0 to 10,000 users over the course of 6 months.  What I found was the biggest barrier to that first initial growth, was mobile integration.  We sort of lost virality without a mobile solution, so I was wondering, Dan do you have any thoughts in that direction ?  For onramps and the client ?


Delete this post after updating or whatever.

No man.  I was impressed by him too.  Please do not delete this comment :)
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Offline JoeyD

If the mumble section can move up about 3 hours it would be great,because we have to pull a red eye at our  3:00AM to joint the section at the current time table.

By pull up, do you mean do it 3 hours earlier? For Europeans that should not be impossible, nobody starts clubbing that early on friday-evening and most skip out work way before 4 or 5pm anyway.

Oh gamey I'm trying to help you by contacting the guy who wrote a webvtt-bot, but so far he's been ignoring my e-mails.

Offline fuzzy

If the mumble section can move up about 3 hours it would be great,because we have to pull a red eye at our  3:00AM to joint the section at the current time table.

By pull up, do you mean do it 3 hours earlier? For Europeans that should not be impossible, nobody starts clubbing that early on friday-evening and most skip out work way before 4 or 5pm anyway.

Oh gamey I'm trying to help you by contacting the guy who wrote a webvtt-bot, but so far he's been ignoring my e-mails.

yes ,3 hours earlier .The Chinese can understand English,but just can't stay up all night  :P

I'll forward this to Dan.  Perhaps we could change the time to be a few hours earlier--say before his lunch break. 

This would also open it up so we could talk to our Chinese counterparts about the stuff going on over there...have delegate and dev hangouts.
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Offline gamey

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I did translations last week.  Not sure how needed etc they are.  It really isn't something I enjoy doing, so if they're not being used then I need to figure this all out.  If my transcribing isn't really aiding in translations for Chinese, then we'll see.

  I missed last week because Bitshares was flipped on its head after the last show making the show not even seem very important.
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Offline gamey

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Fuznuts will be editing today's Chinese centric show.  I would like to post this here as it is as good of a summary as any to use as a source for translations.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=10526.msg138495#msg138495
I speak for myself and only myself.

 

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