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Offline speedy

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Questions on the artistcoin details
« on: October 05, 2014, 01:58:27 PM »

Q) So I see a talented artist's coins are really cheap so I spend some BitUSD to get them. I then want to spread the word to my friends on facebook, but they aren't into crypto so dont have any BitUSD. What do I do about this? Will PeerTracks accept credit cards as a substitute to buy BitUSD first?

Q) Im trying to fully understand the buy-back process. An artist initially offers 10000 coins at 1 dollar each for example, and half of then are bought up. The artist gets the usual 80% of each sale, but where does the 20% go to, as there are not yet any other coins for sale in the hands of users?
  -Do the 20% of the initial sales sit waiting to buy-back coins as soon as some of the initial buyers start selling?
  -What if the initial buyers sell their coins back undercutting the initial artist sell price of 1 dollar?

Q) How soon can we expect to see artists sign up to PeerTracks ? Any confirmed ones yet?

Thanks for any explanation on this.

Offline oco101

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Re: Questions on the artistcoin details
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2014, 02:13:22 PM »
Q) So I see a talented artist's coins are really cheap so I spend some BitUSD to get them. I then want to spread the word to my friends on facebook, but they aren't into crypto so dont have any BitUSD. What do I do about this? Will PeerTracks accept credit cards as a substitute to buy BitUSD first?


That's the thing they don't need to be crypto. They go on PeerTracks website and they use they credit card and get bitUSD. PeerTracks it aimed not at the crypto word it is for all music fans.

Q) Im trying to fully understand the buy-back process. An artist initially offers 10000 coins at 1 dollar each for example, and half of then are bought up. The artist gets the usual 80% of each sale, but where does the 20% go to, as there are not yet any other coins for sale in the hands of users?
  -Do the 20% of the initial sales sit waiting to buy-back coins as soon as some of the initial buyers start selling?
  -What if the initial buyers sell their coins back undercutting the initial artist sell price of 1 dollar?

The 80% is for the selling of music, not artistcoin. The money from artiscoin goes 100 % to artist. 
So once the music from artist start selling 80% goes to the artist, 18% goes for the buy back, 2% goes to notes shareholders(burned)

Offline speedy

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Re: Questions on the artistcoin details
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2014, 02:28:32 PM »
The 80% is for the selling of music, not artistcoin. The money from artiscoin goes 100 % to artist. 
So once the music from artist start selling 80% goes to the artist, 18% goes for the buy back, 2% goes to notes shareholders(burned)
So its a choice between buying an artistcoin (100% to artist), and buying the song (80% to artist, 18% to buyback)? So I buy 1 copy of the song, and then if I really like the artist (hes undervalued) I will buy 1000 of his coins as well? That makes sense now.

That's the thing they don't need to be crypto. They go on PeerTracks website and they use they credit card and get bitUSD. PeerTracks it aimed not at the crypto word it is for all music fans.
Thats what I suspected. In that case how does a blockchain make any difference to the PeerTracks website? They could just accept fiat and their business model is exactly the same. That way they would even save on transaction burn fees.

Offline cusknee

Re: Questions on the artistcoin details
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2014, 02:40:21 PM »
Things are looking good for this DAC. Looking forward to the launch, investing and promoting.

Offline oco101

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Re: Questions on the artistcoin details
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2014, 03:01:23 PM »
So its a choice between buying an artistcoin (100% to artist), and buying the song (80% to artist, 18% to buyback)? So I buy 1 copy of the song, and then if I really like the artist (hes undervalued) I will buy 1000 of his coins as well? That makes sense now.
Exactly if you just listen to the music on your phone you buy the song like you do now on Itunes. The beauty is that you can also "invest" on artist by buying artiscoin, and the more music he's selling the more artiscoin are destroyed and the more valuable the coins that you have is valued.

Thats what I suspected. In that case how does a blockchain make any difference to the PeerTracks website?

So I think your question is how he manage to accept credit card and user get USD, and why this is not working already for  say BitshareX  ?
That a good question that Cob probably could answer, I'm curios too . 
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 03:08:54 PM by oco101 »

Offline Chuckone

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Re: Questions on the artistcoin details
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2014, 03:26:15 PM »
Thats what I suspected. In that case how does a blockchain make any difference to the PeerTracks website? They could just accept fiat and their business model is exactly the same. That way they would even save on transaction burn fees.

What I understood from Cob's description is that the blockchain provides a decentralized way to validate that a user actually bought the song. PeerTracks will scan the blockchain and confirm the sale, allowing the user to download the song/album from PeerTracks directly.

So if PeerTrack's site gets taken down for any reason, any other site can come up and do the same thing, and all the users would still have access to what they previously bought, assuming the new site would have the same songs/albums available for download.

Edit 1: And assuming the Bitshares Music DAC is still up and running

Offline speedy

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Re: Questions on the artistcoin details
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2014, 04:02:41 PM »
Thats what I suspected. In that case how does a blockchain make any difference to the PeerTracks website?

So I think your question is how he manage to accept credit card and user get USD, and why this is not working already for  say BitshareX  ?
That a good question that Cob probably could answer, I'm curios too .

Well that wasnt exactly my question, but youve actually raised an interesting point: In order for PeerTracks to accept fiat for the purchase of BitUSD on the NOTES blockchain, they would be acting as an exchange and money transmitter, thereby placing themselves in the firing line of KYC regulation etc.

If PeerTracks were to ditch the blockchain and just make artistcoins tradable on its centralized website, then regulation becomes less of an issue.

So there are now 2 disadvantages to PeerTracks having a blockchain backend: extra costs AND regulation.

Also: saying that a blockchain backend is protection against PeerTracks being taken doesnt really stack up: if that were to happen then the NOTES shares would tank, and buy-backs from music sales would stop.

It would be great for cob to clarify this for us.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 04:05:28 PM by trader »

Online Shentist

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Re: Questions on the artistcoin details
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2014, 04:09:45 PM »
in my understanding

peertracks is total seperated from the blockchain so they don't transfer anykind of money

1. i buy a song on peertracks for 1,00 USD i don't care about the blockchain (i can only use the player from peertracks, like ituns). the player will check the ownership.l
2. peertracks handles the legal stuff on buying the song online (VAt etc.
3. till now nothing to worry about - a normal business like buying itunes music etc.

difference
4. after taxes and fees for peertracks from the remaining sum 80% goes direct to the artist (unclear how - bitUSD or USD ?)
5. 2% goes into Notes dilution
6. 18% goes in buying Artistcoins on the market and creating a stream of buying order, so the value of the artistcoin goes up.

Offline oco101

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Re: Questions on the artistcoin details
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2014, 04:17:35 PM »
Yes I completely misunderstood your question ....

Yes I would like to hear Cob elaborate on that.

Also: saying that a blockchain backend is protection against PeerTracks being taken doesnt really stack up: if that were to happen then the NOTES shares would tank, and buy-backs from music sales would stop.

So let say PeerTracks is closed down. The Notes will tank buy-backs will stop. But I could open a PeerTracks 2.0 and in the Bitshare Music blockchain I have all the information need it to continue normal operation, because I have all the information on artistcoin holder, Notes Holder and bitUSD holders. In fact if PeerTracks goes down people will still have ther bitUSD and they could still trade artistcoin, the only think that will stop will be the buy back mechanism witch will resume as soon as PeerTrack 2.0 is up and running. 


Offline speedy

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Re: Questions on the artistcoin details
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2014, 04:26:03 PM »
So let say PeerTracks is closed down. The Notes will tank buy-backs will stop. But I could open a PeerTracks 2.0 and in the Bitshare Music blockchain I have all the information need it to continue normal operation, because I have all the information on artistcoin holder, Notes Holder and bitUSD holders. In fact if PeerTracks goes down people will still have ther bitUSD and they could still trade artistcoin, the only think that will stop will be the buy back mechanism witch will resume as soon as PeerTrack 2.0 is up and running.

Thats all true, but if you have to rely on a resurrected PeerTracks after a government takedown, then it seems like the DAC has a flawed business model and that PeerTracks would have been better off avoiding regulatory hurdles by not using a blockchain.

Edit: No-one could open a PeerTracks 2.0 as they would have to recreate relationships with all the artists, open a new bank account to accept user deposits, not to mention return all their old deposits and regain their users' trust.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 04:35:17 PM by trader »

Online Shentist

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Re: Questions on the artistcoin details
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2014, 04:30:03 PM »
Yes I completely misunderstood your question ....

Yes I would like to hear Cob elaborate on that.

Also: saying that a blockchain backend is protection against PeerTracks being taken doesnt really stack up: if that were to happen then the NOTES shares would tank, and buy-backs from music sales would stop.

So let say PeerTracks is closed down. The Notes will tank buy-backs will stop. But I could open a PeerTracks 2.0 and in the Bitshare Music blockchain I have all the information need it to continue normal operation, because I have all the information on artistcoin holder, Notes Holder and bitUSD holders. In fact if PeerTracks goes down people will still have ther bitUSD and they could still trade artistcoin, the only think that will stop will be the buy back mechanism witch will resume as soon as PeerTrack 2.0 is up and running. 



in my understanding the Artist should set a fixed amount he want to get say 70 Cent after taxes.

the bitshares music blockchain now needs an API who peertracks is using and anyone else can use to sell the music. would be more sense.

Offline oco101

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Re: Questions on the artistcoin details
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2014, 04:30:52 PM »
So let say PeerTracks is closed down. The Notes will tank buy-backs will stop. But I could open a PeerTracks 2.0 and in the Bitshare Music blockchain I have all the information need it to continue normal operation, because I have all the information on artistcoin holder, Notes Holder and bitUSD holders. In fact if PeerTracks goes down people will still have ther bitUSD and they could still trade artistcoin, the only think that will stop will be the buy back mechanism witch will resume as soon as PeerTrack 2.0 is up and running.

Thats all true, but if you have to rely on a resurrected PeerTracks after a government takedown, then it seems like the DAC has a flawed business model and that PeerTracks would have been better off avoiding regulatory hurdles by not using a blockchain.

 If PeerTracks will be successful there will be probably other PeerTracks sites that will open on Bitshare Music blockchain, different artists will issues Artistcoin in different PeerTracks clones websites that will be all over the world, diffrent regulations. So you'll have redundancy

Offline Chuckone

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Re: Questions on the artistcoin details
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2014, 04:32:33 PM »
So let say PeerTracks is closed down. The Notes will tank buy-backs will stop. But I could open a PeerTracks 2.0 and in the Bitshare Music blockchain I have all the information need it to continue normal operation, because I have all the information on artistcoin holder, Notes Holder and bitUSD holders. In fact if PeerTracks goes down people will still have ther bitUSD and they could still trade artistcoin, the only think that will stop will be the buy back mechanism witch will resume as soon as PeerTrack 2.0 is up and running.

Thats all true, but if you have to rely on a resurrected PeerTracks after a government takedown, then it seems like the DAC has a flawed business model and that PeerTracks would have been better off avoiding regulatory hurdles by not using a blockchain.

But then you wouldn't have an army of artistcoin holders to promote their favourite artist, and being incentivized to do so through the buy back mechanism. That's the other layer added on top of the song selling that require a blockchain. Yes, if Cob wanted to create a second iTunes with the same functionalities, then a blockchain is not required and certainly not wanted.

Offline oco101

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Re: Questions on the artistcoin details
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2014, 04:38:06 PM »
Yes I completely misunderstood your question ....

Yes I would like to hear Cob elaborate on that.

Also: saying that a blockchain backend is protection against PeerTracks being taken doesnt really stack up: if that were to happen then the NOTES shares would tank, and buy-backs from music sales would stop.

So let say PeerTracks is closed down. The Notes will tank buy-backs will stop. But I could open a PeerTracks 2.0 and in the Bitshare Music blockchain I have all the information need it to continue normal operation, because I have all the information on artistcoin holder, Notes Holder and bitUSD holders. In fact if PeerTracks goes down people will still have ther bitUSD and they could still trade artistcoin, the only think that will stop will be the buy back mechanism witch will resume as soon as PeerTrack 2.0 is up and running. 



in my understanding the Artist should set a fixed amount he want to get say 70 Cent after taxes.

the bitshares music blockchain now needs an API who peertracks is using and anyone else can use to sell the music. would be more sense.

Anybody could use Bitshare Music API, but don't forget that the d music will be on the PeerTracks web site not on the blockchain, So the artist will chose the site that he thinks is more popular.

Offline speedy

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Re: Questions on the artistcoin details
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2014, 04:39:52 PM »
If PeerTracks will be successful there will be probably other PeerTracks sites that will open on Bitshare Music blockchain, different artists will issues Artistcoin in different PeerTracks clones websites that will be all over the world, diffrent regulations. So you'll have redundancy

If other PeerTracks-like sites opened up they would be competing with the original one (obviously), so why would they want to use the BitShares Music blockchain and support their competitors? They have zero incentive to do so. A competitor like iTunes could copy the business model and issue artistcoins just on their centralized website, which is where 99% of music fans will want to trade them anyway.

 

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