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Offline speedy

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Liquidity is the best kind of marketing
« on: October 09, 2014, 11:41:26 PM »

Right now the only market with any liquidity is BitUSD. We keep claiming that BTSX is this great exchange that gives Bitcoiners a safe way to go long and short on BTC, but until there is liquidity in BitBTC then this is a tough sell.

SOLUTION: we should all be running the market maker bot with a portion of our shares, on as many markets as possible. As soon as Bytemaster makes a push for this Im running it!!!

Maybe that is the best bit of marketing any of us can do: run market maker bots.

Offline Mysto

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Re: Liquidity is the best kind of marketing
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2014, 11:49:00 PM »
Yea good idea. I think someone need to make a video or a guide for people who are not tech savy. I would do it if I knew how.

Offline tonyk

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Re: Liquidity is the best kind of marketing
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2014, 11:51:06 PM »
I, for one, am not running any bot in the current 'compete by collateral' scheme... and am manually trading in markets with no competing shorts (ie short offering more then 3x total collateral)...

Should be just a several days until the current market engine is history though.
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline donkeypong

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Re: Liquidity is the best kind of marketing
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2014, 11:55:41 PM »
Increasing demand for BitUSD is what we need. I'd rather create more volume organically (from people) than just have bots trading it back and forth, though if that helps with stability it can be a good thing.

Offline GaltReport

Re: Liquidity is the best kind of marketing
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2014, 12:02:36 AM »
Increasing demand for BitUSD is what we need. I'd rather create more volume organically (from people) than just have bots trading it back and forth, though if that helps with stability it can be a good thing.

 +5%

Offline xeroc

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Re: Liquidity is the best kind of marketing
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2014, 06:58:06 AM »
hehe .. I just yesterday though about setting one up ..
However, I still don't really understand how I am 'only making profit' from it .. and not losing money from it .. can someone enlighten me pls?
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Offline speedy

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Re: Liquidity is the best kind of marketing
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2014, 10:09:33 AM »
hehe .. I just yesterday though about setting one up ..
However, I still don't really understand how I am 'only making profit' from it .. and not losing money from it .. can someone enlighten me pls?

It is risky yes to run a MM bot but on average you should make money because you will win on the spread that you offer. The people that are taking advantage of the liquidity want to make an instant trade at the current price, so they will pay the spread to you.

Btw has Bytemaster published his bot yet?

Offline Riverhead

Re: Liquidity is the best kind of marketing
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2014, 10:30:56 AM »
hehe .. I just yesterday though about setting one up ..
However, I still don't really understand how I am 'only making profit' from it .. and not losing money from it .. can someone enlighten me pls?

It is risky yes to run a MM bot but on average you should make money because you will win on the spread that you offer. The people that are taking advantage of the liquidity want to make an instant trade at the current price, so they will pay the spread to you.

Btw has Bytemaster published his bot yet?
The bots are in the release source under programs/btsx_bots. There are two in there, the MM bot written and maintained by 3I and a market speculator bot I've been tinkering with.

My advice is to create a new wallet with accounts like usd.bot.riverhead and then send a small amount of BTSX to it.

As is, the main.py takes a couple small changes to run and both bots should have their logic reviewed to make sure they are doing what you expect before running.

I've about broken even with the MM bot and the Market Speculator bot is a bit a mess as it's just my experimental bot and shouldn't be run by anyone without changes :P.

Offline cube

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Re: Liquidity is the best kind of marketing
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2014, 10:38:57 AM »

The bots are in the release source under programs/btsx_bots. There are two in there, the MM bot written and maintained by 3I and a market speculator bot I've been tinkering with.

My advice is to create a new wallet with accounts like usd.bot.riverhead and then send a small amount of BTSX to it.

As is, the main.py takes a couple small changes to run and both bots should have their logic reviewed to make sure they are doing what you expect before running.

I've about broken even with the MM bot and the Market Speculator bot is a bit a mess as it's just my experimental bot and shouldn't be run by anyone without changes :P.

I am interested in running one too.

What are the differences between your bot (Market Speculator) and MM bot?   When you said 'about broken even', do you mean you have been making losses?
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Offline Riverhead

Re: Liquidity is the best kind of marketing
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2014, 10:55:28 AM »
It's hard to tell. I haven't made or lost a lot yet. One of my mistakes is that I wrote a monitor bot that keeps track of my bot wallet balance and open orders balance but it tracks in BTSX instead of the quote currency (USD, CNY, BTC) so it's not super useful as the amount of BTSX fluctuates with volatility.


The MM bot uses the price feeds to compare what the centralized exchanges are trading at and buys up USD below the peg and sells USD above the peg. It more or less enforces the peg. I should say I believe this was the plan. I haven't reviewed it's logic too closely.


The Market Speculator bot simply looks at the lowest ask and then sells at 0.5% below that. When that fills it submits a bid for 0.5% lower than it just sold at (working on a get_highest_bid() method when I get some time). It doesn't use the feeds and just plays the spread between bid/ask. It doesn't really have any intelligence yet other than be the cheapest BTSX and then buy back for less than you just sold for.


Both bots have a tolerance parameter that will cancel and reenter orders if the market moves too far away from current bid/asks.


The main.py will always return "Unknown bot type" because the main.py I checked in didn't include the fix to the logic at the bottom. It just needs to have the spaces of the if/else chain indents corrected.


Both bots have a min balance parameter and an account parameter. I setup an account for each so that if I just want to run the MM bot I don't fund the MS bot and it just cycles through and does nothing. It's not really clean right now turning bots on/off so it's easier to do it this way.


Run the config.py to create a blank config.json template to fill out. I'll post mine if anyone thinks it'd help.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 10:57:13 AM by Riverhead »

Offline oldman

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Re: Liquidity is the best kind of marketing
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2014, 03:48:58 PM »
I'd definitely be willing to run a bot if it broke even and was a simple as allocating funds and clicking go.

Hell, if MM bots can break even or produce a small profit it could be something delegates do as part of their workload.

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Re: Liquidity is the best kind of marketing
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2014, 05:00:30 PM »
I just took a closer look at the MM bot and conclude that it is only worth running for USD .. not for ANY OTHER asset ..

maybe I can find some time over the weekend to 'merge' it a little with the feed publishing script so that I can work with prices for other assets .. for later when other assets are open too
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Re: Liquidity is the best kind of marketing
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2014, 06:15:15 PM »
A quick question: why is the market maker polling external exchanges when it can also just use the internal price feed (of the delegates)?
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Offline Shentist

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Re: Liquidity is the best kind of marketing
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2014, 07:41:33 AM »
A quick question: why is the market maker polling external exchanges when it can also just use the internal price feed (of the delegates)?

would speculate - because the external source is faster and it is better to track the orginial source to see, where the market is trading?


liquidity is key, and this is a point Nubits is much better in the moment. I trade everyday and i have aquired to much bitUSD to say it is a good allocation mix with BTSX. In the moment it is ok with me, because the value is dropping, but you see the problem. Without liquidity i can not expect to exit bitUSD easily. The liquidity is not there. But ok, this is my way to support the community and if i suffer in the future, because BTSX value is rising again and i am still in bitUSD it is my contribution to the community.

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Re: Liquidity is the best kind of marketing
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2014, 09:07:27 AM »
A quick question: why is the market maker polling external exchanges when it can also just use the internal price feed (of the delegates)?

would speculate - because the external source is faster and it is better to track the orginial source to see, where the market is trading?


liquidity is key, and this is a point Nubits is much better in the moment. I trade everyday and i have aquired to much bitUSD to say it is a good allocation mix with BTSX. In the moment it is ok with me, because the value is dropping, but you see the problem. Without liquidity i can not expect to exit bitUSD easily. The liquidity is not there. But ok, this is my way to support the community and if i suffer in the future, because BTSX value is rising again and i am still in bitUSD it is my contribution to the community.

That's why I wanted to join as market maker.. but I am unhappy with the current bot .. I'd like it to be more useful for other assets than USD too ..
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