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Offline cube

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Offline CoinHoarder

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Re: Latest Bitcoin news - Caution Alert
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2014, 12:01:24 PM »
Code: [Select]
[6:17:07 PM] Wendell: SWARM… Who else?
[6:17:15 PM] Wendell: Is SWARM even incorporated?
[6:17:52 PM] Xavier  Hawk: Hmmm....CP, Bitshares, Swarm, mastercoin,
[6:18:09 PM] Xavier  Hawk: Ethereum
[6:18:13 PM] Gavin Knight: ethereum would be a likely target do to the mass volume, but they seemed to have tight legal
[6:18:17 PM] Xavier  Hawk: Storj
[6:18:23 PM] Xavier  Hawk: Maidsafe

Most of these companies are not based in the US from what I can tell. I know that Swarm, Ethereum, BitsharesX, and Maidsafe are not at least. CP didn't do an IPO, but burned Bitcoins to get genesis stake.. I'm not sure that would be counted either even though they do seem to be based in the US. Mastercoin probably falls under this category, unfortunately for them. The projects that have launched since them have been more cautionary in terms of regulatory issues.

This is still bad news over all though... just when Bitcoin/crypto is starting to rebound too. The powers that be can't stand it when the 99% have easy access to investing in disruptive technologies when they were blissfully unaware of their existence.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 12:06:53 PM by CoinHoarder »

Offline Riverhead

Re: Latest Bitcoin news - Caution Alert
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2014, 12:22:51 PM »
In a post from Stan after the CP announcement from Patrick of Overstock.com he mentioned that they use the same legal firm that Overstock is using for the CP project. BM and Stan have both posted up about how they're being careful about this or that for legal/regulatory issues. Hopefully their legal council has steered them well.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 04:21:25 PM by Riverhead »

Offline AdamBLevine

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Re: Latest Bitcoin news - Caution Alert
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2014, 12:27:13 PM »
Code: [Select]
[6:17:07 PM] Wendell: SWARM… Who else?
[6:17:15 PM] Wendell: Is SWARM even incorporated?
[6:17:52 PM] Xavier  Hawk: Hmmm....CP, Bitshares, Swarm, mastercoin,
[6:18:09 PM] Xavier  Hawk: Ethereum
[6:18:13 PM] Gavin Knight: ethereum would be a likely target do to the mass volume, but they seemed to have tight legal
[6:18:17 PM] Xavier  Hawk: Storj
[6:18:23 PM] Xavier  Hawk: Maidsafe

Most of these companies are not based in the US from what I can tell. I know that Swarm, Ethereum, BitsharesX, and Maidsafe are not at least. CP didn't do an IPO, but burned Bitcoins to get genesis stake.. I'm not sure that would be counted either even though they do seem to be based in the US. Mastercoin probably falls under this category, unfortunately for them. The projects that have launched since them have been more cautionary in terms of regulatory issues.

This is still bad news over all though... just when Bitcoin/crypto is starting to rebound too. The powers that be can't stand it when the 99% have easy access to investing in disruptive technologies when they were blissfully unaware of their existence.

SWARM is US based, and I'll be shocked if Invictus is not getting a knock on the door come raid day for Angelshares.

and before you say "They're not based in the US", they were when they were collecting money for angelshares and that's what matters.

Offline cube

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Re: Latest Bitcoin news - Caution Alert
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2014, 12:28:49 PM »

Most of these companies are not based in the US from what I can tell. I know that Swarm, Ethereum, BitsharesX, and Maidsafe are not at least. CP didn't do an IPO, but burned Bitcoins to get genesis stake.. I'm not sure that would be counted either even though they do seem to be based in the US. Mastercoin probably falls under this category, unfortunately for them. The projects that have launched since them have been more cautionary in terms of regulatory issues.

This is still bad news over all though... just when Bitcoin/crypto is starting to rebound too. The powers that be can't stand it when the 99% have easy access to investing in disruptive technologies when they were blissfully unaware of their existence.

Yes, this is unfortunate indeed.  The entire crypto industry is at infancy.  I hope the other countries' regulators are not taking the clue from the US and start clamping down.
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Offline speedy

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Re: Latest Bitcoin news - Caution Alert
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2014, 12:31:49 PM »
If fincen are worried about ags style campaigns, what exactly does that have to do with luke-jr's blacklists ?

Offline mf-tzo

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Re: Latest Bitcoin news - Caution Alert
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2014, 12:41:20 PM »
Assuming worst case scenario happens does this mean that one should claim DNS and BTSX shares from AGS as soon as possible and leave these shares on the relevant clients just to be on the safe side?

Offline emski

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Re: Latest Bitcoin news - Caution Alert
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2014, 12:44:23 PM »
Assuming worst case scenario happens does this mean that one should claim DNS and BTSX shares from AGS as soon as possible and leave these shares on the relevant clients just to be on the safe side?

Even if authorities confiscate all of III's property your AGS are safe because you hold the private key. You'll be able to reclaim it at any time. What would be lost is the BTC III holds (assuming they were forced to produce the private key of BTC angel addresses).

Offline CoinHoarder

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Re: Latest Bitcoin news - Caution Alert
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2014, 12:48:33 PM »
@ Adam - Ah, I guess you may be right. For some reason Angelshares didn't cross my mind.

Assuming worst case scenario happens does this mean that one should claim DNS and BTSX shares from AGS as soon as possible and leave these shares on the relevant clients just to be on the safe side?

The Feds couldn't confiscate DAC tokens, as each person owns their own private key to the crypto they sent in for AGS. It wouldn't affect future snapshots either as AGS distribution is known and the ledger is distributed. Worst case scenario is Invictus gets fined and even worse case scenario would be that the AGS development funds get confiscated, although I am leaning more towards just a fine.

Offline Ben Mason

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Re: Latest Bitcoin news - Caution Alert
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2014, 12:54:22 PM »
Code: [Select]
[6:17:07 PM] Wendell: SWARM… Who else?
[6:17:15 PM] Wendell: Is SWARM even incorporated?
[6:17:52 PM] Xavier  Hawk: Hmmm....CP, Bitshares, Swarm, mastercoin,
[6:18:09 PM] Xavier  Hawk: Ethereum
[6:18:13 PM] Gavin Knight: ethereum would be a likely target do to the mass volume, but they seemed to have tight legal
[6:18:17 PM] Xavier  Hawk: Storj
[6:18:23 PM] Xavier  Hawk: Maidsafe

Most of these companies are not based in the US from what I can tell. I know that Swarm, Ethereum, BitsharesX, and Maidsafe are not at least. CP didn't do an IPO, but burned Bitcoins to get genesis stake.. I'm not sure that would be counted either even though they do seem to be based in the US. Mastercoin probably falls under this category, unfortunately for them. The projects that have launched since them have been more cautionary in terms of regulatory issues.

This is still bad news over all though... just when Bitcoin/crypto is starting to rebound too. The powers that be can't stand it when the 99% have easy access to investing in disruptive technologies when they were blissfully unaware of their existence.

SWARM is US based, and I'll be shocked if Invictus is not getting a knock on the door come raid day for Angelshares.

and before you say "They're not based in the US", they were when they were collecting money for angelshares and that's what matters.

Why would you be shocked Adam?  Angel shares is a private record of a donation of cryptographic digital information....in return for which, those who donated will receive several allocations of cryptographic digital information within open-source software products.  On what basis could someone come after them?  Are we not free to gift an arrangement of harmless digital information to whomever we choose and receive harmless digital information in return?

Try not to panic....this technological innovation cannot be un-invented.  The writing is on the wall.  One way or another, blockchain technology will redistribute the power of money and transform our societies.  It's already happening.  Decentralization is and has always been the key.  Bitshares will endure.

Offline mf-tzo

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Re: Latest Bitcoin news - Caution Alert
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2014, 12:59:13 PM »
That is reassuring because I just can't be bothered to claim any shares yet..

Quote
What would be lost is the BTC III holds (assuming they were forced to produce the private key of BTC angel addresses).

Even if that happens, III could just convert all the BTC in bitusd and BTSX as soon as possible and keep the funding safe on the client and at the same time end the legal entity of the company by declaring bankruptcy in advance. Then no one can touch them as well correct?

Just trying to understand potential risks.

Offline cube

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Re: Latest Bitcoin news - Caution Alert
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2014, 01:02:14 PM »
@ Adam - Ah, I guess you may be right. For some reason Angelshares didn't cross my mind.

The Feds couldn't confiscate DAC tokens, as each person owns their own private key to the crypto they sent in for AGS. It wouldn't affect future snapshots either as AGS distribution is known and the ledger is distributed. Worst case scenario is Invictus gets fined and even worse case scenario would be that the AGS development funds get confiscated, although I am leaning more towards just a fine.

If there would be a fine in a worst case scenario, I hope it would not be big and cripple III financially.  We need III fully functioning. And what will happen to the current MUSIC pre-sales and future fund raising via crypto?
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Offline CoinHoarder

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Re: Latest Bitcoin news - Caution Alert
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2014, 01:04:32 PM »
I think we may be freaking out about nothing.

After a quick assessment, Invictus is a company registered in Hong Kong, China. Meaning that the SEC would probably not have jurisdiction.

http://bitshares.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/BitShares-Trust-Published%20July-18-2014.pdf
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 01:06:22 PM by CoinHoarder »

Offline mf-tzo

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Re: Latest Bitcoin news - Caution Alert
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2014, 01:14:28 PM »
No one is freaking out and there is no need to freak out. Just trying to re evaluate some possible risks, although I am pretty confident that III have much more dedicated people to do that instead of us.

What I am not so sure is that if these risks are identified and solutions are in place how and if these would be communicated to us in order to take as well the necessary precautions...

So we need a decentralized private and secure communication system that no government can't spy on us...

Offline cube

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Re: Latest Bitcoin news - Caution Alert
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2014, 01:19:56 PM »
...
Just trying to re evaluate some possible risks, although I am pretty confident that III have much more dedicated people to do that instead of us.

What I am not so sure is that if these risks are identified and solutions are in place how and if these would be communicated to us in order to take as well the necessary precautions...
...

We need to be aware of possible risks and take the necessary measures and precautions.  This need to be communicated.   +5%
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