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Offline zhangweis

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A cross-chain idea derived from escrow
« on: October 10, 2014, 11:50:40 PM »

I know very little about cross chain but it's interesting to think about. Forgive me if it's obvious, ridiculous or nonsense.

The idea works like escrow. Say A wants to trade with B for btsx with btc. A sends btsx to an escrow(C). C receives btsx and watch whether B has sent btc to A in specified time. If not, C sends btsx back to A. If yes, C sends btsx to B.

Here we can have the delegates(thus the btsx network) acting as escrow. That means btsx network need to know btc network. This is quite a burden and that's why it's not perfect. But at least btc network doesn't need to know anything about this. Maybe delegates can choose to directly use data from say blockchain.info.

The idea works like this:
A and B agrees on a crosschain transaction.
A sends a crosschain transaction (transferring 100 BTSX to B when a specified BTC transaction happens in 5 days).
B sees this transaction in btsx blockchain and is assured he can receive the btsx when btc transaction is done in time.
B sends btc to A as the transaction specified.
delegates see the btc transaction in 5 days, transfer the btsx to B.
if delegates don't see the btc transaction in 5 days, transfer the btsx back to A.
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Offline xeroc

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Re: A cross-chain idea derived from escrow
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2014, 08:27:01 AM »
brilliant ...

If we could somehow manage to store a CONTRACT (btc-address/amount) into the btsx memo
all of this can be AUTOMATED by the delegates

but .. the memo field can only hold some 12 bytes or so ..
If you figure out how to let the delegate know which btc address to watch and what amount to expect this could be a HUGE feature!
Give BitShares a try! Use the http://testnet.bitshares.eu provided by http://bitshares.eu powered by ChainSquad GmbH

Offline emski

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Re: A cross-chain idea derived from escrow
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2014, 10:21:09 AM »
You might want to check the following thread: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9075.0 .
There are several similar proposals extensively discussed. However I didn't notice much response. It almost looks like noone is interested or I'm extremely crappy presenter.

Offline 麥可貓

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Re: A cross-chain idea derived from escrow
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2014, 12:30:04 PM »
seems like the escrew is going to be used BitShares Play:
http://www.bitsuperlab.com/pdf/BitSharesPlayWhitePaper.pdf

Quote
Systems like BitShares X have user issued assets which can represent tokens of some digital equity. If
systems like this support escrow mechanisms, which mean destroy some Bit Asset (say PLS assets) in
the exchange, and create same amount of tokens(PLS) in the BitShares Play system, and vice versa. This
is achieved by consensus communication between two systems, for example, if PLAY detects that some
amount of PLS assets are sent to a escrow address, then, PLS with same amount will be created in the
BitShares Play system, and vice versa. An escrow address is some special address of the system that no
one knows the private key of.
PTS: PmRVDPymZqSAZEXauHZSewrUrE66af7epT
BTSX: michaelcat
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Offline zhangweis

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Re: A cross-chain idea derived from escrow
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2014, 01:53:16 PM »
You might want to check the following thread: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9075.0 .
There are several similar proposals extensively discussed. However I didn't notice much response. It almost looks like noone is interested or I'm extremely crappy presenter.

As I stated, the whole btsx network needs to watch BTC block chain which makes it impractical. Let me check other proposals.
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Offline luckybit

Re: A cross-chain idea derived from escrow
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2014, 03:36:32 PM »
I know very little about cross chain but it's interesting to think about. Forgive me if it's obvious, ridiculous or nonsense.

The idea works like escrow. Say A wants to trade with B for btsx with btc. A sends btsx to an escrow(C). C receives btsx and watch whether B has sent btc to A in specified time. If not, C sends btsx back to A. If yes, C sends btsx to B.

Here we can have the delegates(thus the btsx network) acting as escrow. That means btsx network need to know btc network. This is quite a burden and that's why it's not perfect. But at least btc network doesn't need to know anything about this. Maybe delegates can choose to directly use data from say blockchain.info.

The idea works like this:
A and B agrees on a crosschain transaction.
A sends a crosschain transaction (transferring 100 BTSX to B when a specified BTC transaction happens in 5 days).
B sees this transaction in btsx blockchain and is assured he can receive the btsx when btc transaction is done in time.
B sends btc to A as the transaction specified.
delegates see the btc transaction in 5 days, transfer the btsx to B.
if delegates don't see the btc transaction in 5 days, transfer the btsx back to A.

Wow these are some good ideas.
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Offline luckybit

Re: A cross-chain idea derived from escrow
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2014, 03:38:08 PM »
brilliant ...

If we could somehow manage to store a CONTRACT (btc-address/amount) into the btsx memo
all of this can be AUTOMATED by the delegates

but .. the memo field can only hold some 12 bytes or so ..
If you figure out how to let the delegate know which btc address to watch and what amount to expect this could be a HUGE feature!

How long until Bytemaster blesses us with a Turing complete scripting capability so we can begin making smart contracts as easily as we discuss this?
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline emski

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Re: A cross-chain idea derived from escrow
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2014, 04:15:13 PM »
You might want to check the following thread: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9075.0 .
There are several similar proposals extensively discussed. However I didn't notice much response. It almost looks like noone is interested or I'm extremely crappy presenter.

As I stated, the whole btsx network needs to watch BTC block chain which makes it impractical. Let me check other proposals.

This was also discussed. Only delegates need to check BTC blockchain in most of the proposals. However some means for easily verifying BTC transactions were discussed so that all BTSX nodes could relatively easy verify the existance of BTC transactions.

Offline Shentist

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Re: A cross-chain idea derived from escrow
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2014, 09:18:39 AM »
You might want to check the following thread: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=9075.0 .
There are several similar proposals extensively discussed. However I didn't notice much response. It almost looks like noone is interested or I'm extremely crappy presenter.

i am and was interested.

i am pretty sure it would attract a lot of people to transfer in the cryptosphere.

i am still interested and if zhangweis are capable to code it i would propose something like

- create a new Bitshares DAC - say - Bitshares Xchain

- we could run a small crowd raiser with BTSX and bitUSD , bitCNY

i would like to help and start it

- emskis paper is great and i would write something similar, but my english is not good enough.
- i would love to talk more with you guys and maybe we can collect some people here to push it.

my future vision for this is start crosschain trading with btc and the bitshares chains and to the larger altcoins as well.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 09:20:29 AM by Shentist »

Offline emski

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Re: A cross-chain idea derived from escrow
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2014, 11:16:05 AM »
Indeed something like this could be implemented on another blockchain. However it requires some work and dedication that is not in line with spare time project. Fundraising is great way to start it. I don't see any technical issues in "coding" (I prefer developing) such solution apart from time required.

Offline Shentist

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Re: A cross-chain idea derived from escrow
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2014, 04:42:59 PM »
Indeed something like this could be implemented on another blockchain. However it requires some work and dedication that is not in line with spare time project. Fundraising is great way to start it. I don't see any technical issues in "coding" (I prefer developing) such solution apart from time required.

with a own chain on this idea, you could take the wanted steps by yourself. with a fundraiser we could raise the needed development capital to make it happen.

 

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