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Messages - santaclause102

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2251
General Discussion / Re: Bitshares and anonymity
« on: February 16, 2014, 08:32:04 pm »

Governments decide laws on behalf of special interest, not society as a whole.
> I totally agree here. "Society as a whole" is an approximation.

As far as philosophy is concerned, I do not subscribe to end justifies the means approach even though many (most?) do.
> The concept is meant to take into account different goals and different means: The means of government survailance for my perscoallny doesnt justify the end of security because another goald is compromised on the way.
I described "means to ends" as opposed to idiology which has no goals but to have a stable perspective on the world and make sense of the world this way.
 
So if the market demands privacy then voluntary transactions will produce this result and make a profit by doing so.   If the market demands transparency then I suppose we shall have transparency; however, such lack of privacy over financial matters could be worse than the scenarios you are concerned about.
> Could be. I didnt say what is worse or better. What I said was: Let's not just look at one side. The other thing I said was: Idiology makes you do that (having pre known solutions without analyzing pros and cons of a solution).
> I totally disagree about the market being able to deliver a transparency solution because this would need an agreement to have it. In a world of individuals no one would have an incentive to compromise his privacy if the other ones doent. So there has to be an agreement by all to compromise their privacy. This is a freerider problem and can NOT be served by a market.

Remember, lack of privacy is only *one* means of achieving the end of 'accountability'.... after all, suppose someone took out a short position and profited as a result of food being poisoned.   That doesn't prove knowledge or involvement and without some other kind of evidence is not even a basis for violating their rights or a warrant.
> Doesnt prove it, right. But if the attacker is having 99% of the shorting volume in a day/week/month and he is known. Law enforcement would have a starting point. And the system would work if law enforcement would do a good job plus if it would not be corrupted in some way in that perticular respect. [to demonstrate what I mean by ideology: Some liberal idiologist (not to be confused with someone that is highly valuing liberal values!) would have an opinion here right away as soon as he hears the words "law enforcement" and "coruption" in one sentence. Law enforcement is often corrupted but that doesnt mean it mostly is. Tha's why I said "that perticular respect"]

I would suggest that the deterrence against such attacks can be achieved through
some other means than the one suggested.  Privacy need not be sacrificed in the name of public good.
> Do you have some of these other means on your mind?

2252
General Discussion / Re: How do you predict bitshares catching on?
« on: February 16, 2014, 07:44:38 pm »
Quote from: CWEvans on February 15, 2014, 07:47:44 pm
Quote from: cob on January 09, 2014, 03:25:37 am
Who do you think it's users will be?

I expect that we will see a progression similar to the adoption of all new technologies.

After the bleeding edge here, BitShares early adopters are likely to be day-trading speculators who see it is yet another sparkly toy to pump-&-dump.

If I can get enough early adopters to embrace my 'entrepreneurs without borders' mindset, we might see post-ISO-4217 issues, like BitGuatemalanLightRoastedArabica, BitJeanJeanRoosevelt's2015SongCollection, BitGhanaHotSauce001, and the like that can be used for international trade, but I expect that the day-traders could become a nuisance by pushing the prices around.

Quote from: cob on January 09, 2014, 03:25:37 am
Who will it be marketed for?

Most likely, some kind of consensus will be sought in these threads, mixed with some of the executives' own expectations.

Quote from: cob on January 09, 2014, 03:25:37 am
How do you imagine it breaking out of the altcoin micro-niche community?

That's pretty much the name of the game.

Considering that altcoins are empty tokens not meant to represent anything else, other than some imagined improvement on Bitcoin, one could argue that BitShares is categorically different from Bitcoin, and that it is as mistaken to think of it as an altcoin as it is to think of a Bitcoin wallet as a spreadsheet, although both are software that displays numbers.

On the other hand, such distinctions would be as lost on most as the differences among popular music styles today are lost on me, and nothing is to be gained by arguing with prospective users.

BitShares promoters might need to cut their own new path, rather than position BitShares against colored coins, Mastercoin, Open Transactions, Ethereum, et al.

My own expectation is that I can use BitShares to help price goods that are new to the market. Rather than see them as derivatives or even necessarily as bets, I see them as market research. For example, if I released BitHondurasMediumRoastArabica, it would be in the spirit of issuing Kickstarter-style pre-sales and asking prospective buyers what the price per kilogram should be.

The only way to know if this would help break BitShares out of Altcoin Purgatory is to run the experiment.

The logical next step would be a USD/Bitshares exchange.

2253
General Discussion / Re: Bitshares and anonymity
« on: February 16, 2014, 07:38:12 pm »
I mean I DO agree with you that full transparency would lead to survalilance and total control which would be horrible in many ways. But this should not lead us to close our eyes towards as horrible things on the other side of the anonymity/transparency specturum. Idiologies (simpliefied and moral categorial systems) help us to close our eyes to the complexity of the world. LET THIS MOVEMENT BE DIFFERENT! No ideologies, only means to ends/goals.

There was a post somewhere else pointing to this video http://altcoinpress.com/2014/02/altcoins-rising-bitcoin-the-altavista-as-google-waits-in-wings/
The first presentation has a simple and i think valid point: You wount just install your own system apart from the establishment. If you win with your appraoch your system becomes the standard. So there is no way around having a society (world) wide discussion because everyone would be effected.
Governments, as imperfect as they work, are the enitites deciding on laws on behalf of te society as a whole. Governments, next to the media, other social movements, everyone, are players that should be involved in this anonymity/transparency discussion.

2254
General Discussion / Re: Bitshares and anonymity
« on: February 16, 2014, 07:23:49 pm »
Quote
As far as the Short, Poison, Profit potential is concerned, this cannot be prevented... see 9/11 for an example of people who did this with our current system and yet were never caught.   

There was no material profit taken from 9/11 though. Attacks like that could become a business model. No one wants that.

Quote
A business would counter this kind of attack with insurance which would make the Short, Poison, Profit attack backfire as it would yield profits for the company rather than losses.   If the company attempted to perform a false-flag to commit insurance fraud you are no longer dealing with anonymous individuals!   

...this would still increase overall costs and therefore would not be profits for the company. 

2255
General Discussion / Re: Interviewing ProtoShares/AngelShares Honoring DAC Devs
« on: February 16, 2014, 07:01:43 pm »
The DAC explorer? DAC ventures at glance? 

2256
General Discussion / Re: NoirShares Launch in 8 hours, don't panic.
« on: February 16, 2014, 06:50:09 pm »
Quote from: barwizi on February 16, 2014, 06:37:01 pm
Quote from: bitcool on February 16, 2014, 06:24:29 pm
When a wolfpack work together hunting, each has different roles. Same is true within a crypto ecosystem.

it a wild world out there.

10% is what the pack offers, you should leave it if you don't feel love in the air ....

actually wolves may hunt together but they fight over the food.

see, that is the thing, all i get are demands for 10% but no clear reason why. This exercise brings forward many of the questions that where asked as we crafted the Social Consensus Software License, read the bounty thread. I am all for giving PTS holders a stake, but i'd like to hear them justify it. If i subtract the 3 or 4 active holders who are assisting me and advising me what other assistance has the PTS holding group offered? If only you knew the hell i went through to get that code to even produce a single hash with no help.

here is another example for you

THIS IS WHY PTS HOLDERS DID NOT GET THEIR 1% STAKES IN GENESIS BLOCK:- https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=2919.0


I finally figured it out but it was too late, launch time had passed. However if you read my response to Stan and III comes up with a good response, I'll tell you which wallet version to download that will give you your NRS.

Simply speaking it would give you the sympathy and support and continued attention of PTS/AGS holders.

2257
General Discussion / Re: NoirShares Launch in 8 hours, don't panic.
« on: February 16, 2014, 06:47:16 pm »
Quote from: barwizi on February 16, 2014, 06:28:54 pm
Quote from: delulo on February 16, 2014, 05:40:48 pm
I m on vacation so excuse my inability to read the whole thread.
Could you give me a quick run down about...
...why should I invest: What makes it a crypto equity (as opposed to a crypto currency) and a crypto currency?
... you meantioned it as a equity and currency fir NIG. What is nice. What service does it provide?
... looking at http://noirbits.org/ it looks like an ordinary altcoin. What more does it offer?
... How can I invest and what are the conditions (how long does the IPO last if there is one?)
..what source code do you use (your own, bitcoin, I3's)?
Thanks


Invest in NRS beacuse it is a decentalized risk/profit enterprise. What make it s crypto-equity is because it seeks to have self valuation beyond current scope of the average crypto. It is a crypto-equity because an invested unit will represent a stake in all and all activities NIG partakes and is a legitimate pfoof of your share of the profits/risks in any and all ventures. An invested unit also represents your existence as a share holder and entitles you to a say in what ventures are pursued, to what extend. The terms of operation and who becomes the leading figure, that includes even firing me for incompetence. in fact if the PTS collective had gotten all those shares in the beginning they would have the power right now to fire me. 

What service does it provide?

The very first venture being pursued is an exchange that allows NRS/NRB holders to trade directly in USD. PTS is meant to be part of this venture, but until we solve our diffrences, their tab will remain greyed out.

Quote
noirbits.org

It is an old site that we are seeking to update, the actual dev has been offline a while, we hope he is ok. in the mean time another website is being worked on by another dev. More details over the coming week.

How can I invest and what are the conditions

NIG will work with a 3 tier investment portfolio from which holders and investors are free to choose from. The investment options will be opened after this document :- Noir Investment Group Initiation Document is law, in order to protect Investors.

what source code do you use

PPC source adjusted to use momentum and make it difficult to instamine or overwhelm the network.

Thanks for your questions.

So NGS is a project similar to I3 and noirbits is similar to PTS in that context?

2258
General Discussion / Re: Impressions Inside Bitcoin Conference Berlin
« on: February 16, 2014, 06:33:37 pm »
Quote from: bytemaster on February 14, 2014, 08:32:10 pm
Quote from: delulo on February 14, 2014, 05:33:25 pm
Mastercoin and Ethereum marketing is not better than Bitshares marketing! Their presence comes from personal involvement with these "elites". They are not elites in terms of knowledge / understanding more in monetary terms and even more in terms of being well connected... Reciprocity... "I give you something - you give me something". That's how making business works.
Geting some Bit Angel Investors on board might help in many terms (promoting Bitshares within these circles and promotion to the masses).

I think you hit the nail on the head here.  These guys are all friends / insiders in the bitcoin community where as we are seen as outsiders.   They get a lot of buzz because of personal connections that we do not have and building these connections is a full time job.   

I have actually talked with the BitAngles, presented our plans to their organization, met with David, etc.   There seems to be some kind of frequency mismatch that keeps them from getting on board with what we are doing.   

There is also an undercurrent of Charles Hoskinson who is VERY good at doing these kinds of deals, networking, and getting people on his side.   When he was with Invictus his skills in this regard were most impressive.    As you can tell from various interviews Charles is actively attempting to outcompete Invictus with a new product and thus working all of his connections behind the scenes to side with Ethereum and downplay Invictus.   

From my conversations with people wearing Ethereum t-shirts in Miami it appears many are supporting the project due to friendships that are entirely independent of technical merits.  They don't understand it, its limits, or its strength but they have bought into the reality distortion field that I use to joke with Charles about.   The reality distortion field is strong with this one.

Despite the hype, these projects lack technical merit and are economically flawed.   In the free market you can only survive so long on hype before market forces kick in.

I am sure you know better whats good. What appears in my head though is: Why dont you try to settle the case with Charles personally aiming at peace not mostly in business terms but in personal terms? Also making a statement (together with Charles) to the Bitcoin community about what happened what be great even though it is not the easiest way.
If you say you wanna make a statement about all that he might be willing to talk to you.
Also the mess (read the thrad on bitcoin talk where you are both being not very nice towards each other) is bad for BOTH of you. Right now mostly for I3, later on when I3 got of the ground (and the outlaw status didnt hurt the adaption) Charles might look like the one that tried to come up with something random for revenge. So you would both profit from getting over your personal disappointments.

On the one side I aggree the most innovative technology will win. On the other side strong personal connections give you a lot and mostly dont cost anything. In Berlin I heard big money investors wanting to go into bitcoin talk about Ethereum without having a sofisticated understanding of the matter.

A lot of people have great talent and people develope amazing momentum when they are given trust in advance and feel valued. Inviting the wider Bitcoin comunity to participate in Bitshares / I3 can be another way to compensate the lack discussed above. How would that work? I dont know. Posting more on Bitcointalk, having an own Bitshares thread? What else?

2259
General Discussion / Re: NoirShares Launch in 8 hours, don't panic.
« on: February 16, 2014, 05:40:48 pm »
I m on vacation so excuse my inability to read the whole thread.
Could you give me a quick run down about...
...why should I invest: What makes it a crypto equity (as opposed to a crypto currency) and a crypto currency?
... you meantioned it as a equity and currency fir NIG. What is nice. What service does it provide?
... looking at http://noirbits.org/ it looks like an ordinary altcoin. What more does it offer?
... How can I invest and what are the conditions (how long does the IPO last if there is one?)
..what source code do you use (your own, bitcoin, I3's)?
Thanks

2260
General Discussion / Re: NoirShares Launch in 8 hours, don't panic.
« on: February 14, 2014, 06:57:41 pm »
what sets it apart form Peercoin?

2261
General Discussion / Re: Impressions Inside Bitcoin Conference Berlin
« on: February 14, 2014, 05:33:25 pm »
Mastercoin and Ethereum marketing is not better than Bitshares marketing! Their presence comes from personal involvement with these "elites". They are not elites in terms of knowledge / understanding more in monetary terms and even more in terms of being well connected... Reciprocity... "I give you something - you give me something". That's how making business works.
Geting some Bit Angel Investors on board might help in many terms (promoting Bitshares within these circles and promotion to the masses).

2262
General Discussion / Re: Impressions Inside Bitcoin Conference Berlin
« on: February 14, 2014, 05:19:35 pm »
Quote from: AdamBLevine on February 14, 2014, 04:58:28 pm
The guy from bitangels was almost certainly David Johnston

It was Jeremy Kandah. More Bitangel investors, including David J., might be involved too.

2263
General Discussion / Re: Bitshares and anonymity
« on: February 14, 2014, 03:18:50 pm »
Quote from: barwizi on February 14, 2014, 03:07:37 pm
Quote from: delulo on February 14, 2014, 02:46:18 pm
Agree. I am a little worried that the crypto space will either be completely anonomous or will make complete survailance possible. Both is horrible with different cases for society as a whole.

A case where complete anonimity is obviously bad: Someone goes short on a company's stock -> attacks this company (bombing plants, injecting poison into food the company produces) -> takes profits anonymously. 

I think most people and reasonable officals like Benjamin Lawsky see it the same way. It is a balance and extreme positions to either side will have more extreme disadavtanges than advtantages.

Goal imo must be to distribute power as much as possible. Extreme positions to either side will fail here.

Communication and working together with officials and an open PR policy will help to walk this fine line between complete anonymity and survailance.   

I believe the fact that I3 has a corporate structure will help a lot here.

I have been pondering this issue for a while and have come up with a possible structure that maintains decentralization and  anonymity while allowing for a few points of reference. My own venture while having many similarities to DACs has an actual physical footprint, the risks, costs and profits involved are possibly huge so i've thought of using a "cell" strategy. It looks like a possible option to dealing with many issues that are limiting the crypto-space, for instance, by de-coupling central management and using user consensus, policies, strategies and changes can be adopted in an audit-able yet nigh untraceable way. pseudonyms are encouraged to protect all users. I am currently trying to figure out a method of one-time use deposit and withdrawal scheme for the exchange i am working on that will ensure that once a user confirms withdrawals and deposits of their fiat, their personal details are destroyed. Regulations here state that you must do KYC, but there are no post KYC regulations, as a result it is up to me whether to store or "lose" the data.

did you lay that out in details somewhere? Or is it still in your head only?

2264
General Discussion / Re: Bitshares and anonymity
« on: February 14, 2014, 02:46:18 pm »
Agree. I am a little worried that the crypto space will either be completely anonomous or will make complete survailance possible. Both is horrible with different cases for society as a whole.

A case where complete anonimity is obviously bad: Someone goes short on a company's stock -> attacks this company (bombing plants, injecting poison into food the company produces) -> takes profits anonymously. 

I think most people and reasonable officals like Benjamin Lawsky see it the same way. It is a balance and extreme positions to either side will have more extreme disadavtanges than advtantages.

Goal imo must be to distribute power as much as possible. Extreme positions to either side will fail here.

Communication and working together with officials and an open PR policy will help to walk this fine line between complete anonymity and survailance.   

I believe the fact that I3 has a corporate structure will help a lot here.

2265
Deutsch (German) / Re: Skills & Qualifikation (D-CH-S)
« on: February 14, 2014, 02:26:16 pm »
Quote from: cassiopaia on February 14, 2014, 10:00:54 am
also eigentlich haben wir so schon nen Team zusammen

Software Entwickler
Nachrichtentechniker
Ökonom/Konzepter/texter
Designer/PR Marketing

:) fett :)

+9999999%

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