I dont think reclaiming lost funds is very necessary, however reclaiming lost/stale votes does have some merit.   Enough to warrant the 5% fee probably not.

With regards to being active in the community, it would frustrate me to have to go around the world and assemble my multisig just to change my vote.  IT would make me not vote except in an emergency.

Am I correct in assuming votes cannot be changed under any circumstances without a transaction? Not sure how the web of trust thing works or the automatic bad delegate detection works.

Either way, what would be nice is if the private key created a derivative key, that I could vote with but not send a transaction.   I can put the private key in cold storage and voting key I could keep on my computer.

If my voting key got stolen and votes were cast not to my choosing, I could use the private key to reset a different voting key and the stolen voting key would be useless.

Seems well down the list of things to work on, but I think it would be a nice to have if at all technically possible.

I see many things I hate about it, but what is the point?

The only thing I can come up with is if btsx is in cold storage then people cannot change their delegate vote.   Is that is purpose?  To encourage frequent voting?

@bitmarket

I sense you might be a direct response copywriter? Or involved in internet marketing in some way? I've been in that industry from the (almost) beginning. I'm friends with Yanik Silver and I've done copy for Neil Strauss a few times.

Something I've been trying to get across to the BitShares team is the importance of the language they use when talking to specific demographics. The language that will get bitcoiners excited is completely different than the language that will get mom and dad excited.

I did an AMA in /r/BitcoinMarkets/ on Monday and the main takeaway for me (as a copywriter / IMer) was how receptive they were when I framed BitShares X as a "financial experiment". It completely blasted past their psychological barriers. The people who frequent /r/BitcoinMarket are some of the most jaded cynical people you'll ever meet and yet they seemed completely open to the idea.

Based on the feedback from the AMA I've been toying with the slogan "The Greatest Financial Experiment Since Bitcoin" as a hook targeted at typical bitcoin adopters. Framing BitShares X as a financial experiment automatically dismisses it as a threat. Suddenly it's the same as bitcoin. An all new fascinating experiment they can get excited about all over again.

If bitcoiners see BitShares an innovative financial experiment they'll automatically think "I can get in on this early and become rich like the early bitcoiners" AND "it's just an experiment, not a hyped up scam coin so it's at least worth paying attention to". It completely gets past their bullshit detector.

Some of the AMA comments:

Quote

I've been following this since the days of PTS - still can't say I fully understand, but I'm glad to see progress because I think it's a fascinating experiment.

Quote

I really think BTSX is an awesome experiment!

There were many other comments along the lines of "awesome experiment" and "fascinating".

You picked me like a dirty nose.    I know Yanik, and know of Neil.  I know lots of IM'ers and a few of the PUA world. Mystery's camp specifically.

I liked your framing of the financical experiment.   I might just steal that one.

Hi Stan,

I dont disagree with anything you said.  Except that... it should not be said.   Let me explain.

Will bitcoin ever hardfork to DPOS.   Well the answer is, if they are smart.... the truth is, getting consensus on that will be very difficult.  IT may happen. It may not.   But I sure as hell am going to mention the possibility of it happening right up front in every conversation I have with a bitcoiner.  Why?  Because I have been a marketer for 15 years and I know that the majority of people have 2 massive psychological incentives to keep a closed mind about the validity of DPOS.

1. They have been telling their friends for years the bitcoin is the shit and it even if another crypto came along and surpassed it, then most would have to admit they were wrong to a degree.  Not many bitcoiners give themselves the out that "crypto will be king" instead of "bitcoin will be king."

2. Most people in bitcoin are not wealthy.   Bitcoin is their chance to make big money.  They hang on to it with desperation. 

As a result of these two powerful psychological drivers, most people in crypto approach new things outside of bitcoin with a very closed mind.  If we can alleviate these concerns, then they may just have their mind open enough for long enough to listen and get enthusiastic about it.

It is interesting to note that the biggest bitcoin "celebrity" to endorse DPOS is a savant. Vitalik has near immunity from psychological triggers.    And then even though he has all that clout with his team, he still has trouble convincing them DPOS is the shit because of their psychological triggers.

Yourself, Dan and Brian, all reported experiencing that exact resistance when speaking to most people.   I think you guys knew why (Dan said so explicitly), you just didn't know how to fix it.   

The way to fix it is to explain that neither of these things are being threatened by your new idea..... in fact.... these new ideas you are about to introduce to them is very much aligned with their goals of being right(1) and rich(2).

Therefore when I release this video, it would be great if people in this community did not start conversations in the comments section saying, "bitsharess is gonna crush bitcoin." "POW is dead" "DPOS will render bitcoin obsolete"

Instead the comments will hopefully read, "This could be the coolest thing for bitcoin since Satoshi."  "DPOS could be the killer feature to send Bitcoin to the moon", etc.

If you guys do that then, I think we will get a great result from this video.

As for all of your other points I agree.  If we continue to shoot ourselves in the foot and begin the conversation with why Bitcoin is dead, then the superiority of the technology will slowly but surely win out eventually.  But if we are smart...  it will happen a lot faster.

Most of this post belongs in the marketing forum, but because I am seeking contributors to a bounty to break DPOS, I thought it belongs here.

My name is Max Wright and I have been following Bytemaster since before Invictus' first newsletter. My skills are in marketing and not tech and as such have watched from afar as the tech geniuses behind bitshares do their thing... very well I might add.

But after hanging out with the team in Saint Martin and working with Brian and BM for the last month, I have drawn some conclusions and here they are for that they are worth.   Feedback is appreciated.

1. Marketing to non-bitcoin enthusiasts at this early stage is a waste of time.  The entry and exit ramps to btsx require bitcoin and that is where we must focus.

2. Bitcoin works in cliques, and most bitcoiners have their favorite and trusted sources. What I call bitcoin royalty. Get them and the rest follow. Vitalik was a great start, and in the following months you will see many of his followers pay attention to btsx.  I believe we should invest our resources here first.

3. bitUSD may be very useful in getting the early masses on board but it has little appeal to early adoptors, innovators and bitcoin royalty. We should not focus marketing efforts on bitUSD at this time.

4. TITAN is cool, but has some potential drawbacks. I think it is easy to send money to an incorrect party and it would be nice to not lead with a privacy thing which may attract unwanted govt attention which may slow us down. Further, bitcoiners have already jumped the hurdle of dealing with ugly addresses and QR codes and as I mentioned in point 1, I think we should only be interested in bitcoiners at the moment. If we had nothing else I would run with it, but we have gold so why bother.

5. I think DPOS is the killer feature (the gold) that will help us attract the bitcoin royalty and their followers.

6. When Bitcoiners understand that in 2014 the first half a billion dollars of fiat that chased bitcoin went to electricity and chip manufacturing companies instead of sending the price of their coins to the moon they will want a solution. When they realize DPOS is that solution, they will come.

7. One by one, they will come until the call in the bitcoin community is 50% or more and they will hardfork bitcoin to DPOS. That will be great for Bitcoin and bitshares and by extension humanity.

8. I have a plan and will execute it shortly to create videos and presentations to attract the bitcoin community with the lure of using DPOS to solve this problem.

9. As part of this video I am going to offer a bounty to anyone who can destroy/hack/break DPOS

10. Thoughts on that bounty.
A) I need to work with the tech team on the wording of the bounty. DPOS is easier to corrupt than POW, but that is accounted for by its easy to recover from features (voting, hardforks, etc).  How should this bounty be worded?

B) I am willing to match dollar for dollar up to 20btc (approx $10k) for this bounty. Because I do not have the tech knowledge to know how good DPOS really is, I will only match btc put up by the dev team.  If it is too early and DPOS is not ready for the big team just yet, then that is cool we can wait. But if it is, and the devs will put their money where their mouth is (and where their time has been) I will match up to 20btc.

C) The bigger the bounty, the bigger the press, the more eyeballs on bitshares. I hope you contribute to the bounty as well.   Remember if the bounty is not claimed in 12 months, then you get your btc back and nothing is lost.  If the bounty is paid and a fatal flaw is found in DPOS then you may have just saved yourself years of your life working on a flawed concept. How much is that worth to you? It is a no lose situation. I hope to get this bounty over $100,000

D) In order for the bounty to be believed it must be held in a public btc wallet. Pledges are not enough.   I suggest a multisig wallet, with myself, BM and a couple of other trusted community members as signers.

11. I would like to get this video and concept out soon so if you have ideas or can contribute setting up the bounty wallet, please post here quickly.

Thoughts and feedback appreciated.

I defo agree.  Just like Bitcoin started in the dark world so to will bit USD.    If the community thinks this is poor positioning and wants to avoid it, then I can understand but I dont know any other way.

That is where the customers are.   Perhaps a nice middle ground would be to partner with open bazaar.   I can see an ebay seller looking to move over might be hesitant because he does not trust Bitcoins price stability. 

I would be a fan of reaching out to the dark world, but I would not do it unless the comunity thought the positioning was worth it.

I agree with Coin hoarder.

Let's face it. Who of btsx users wants to hold bitusd and miss the gains of btsx?   

IT may take time but we should be patient.   Remember it took bitcoin nearly 2 years to discover a price at all.

If I understand BM's solution, this is effectively a bailout program.  The unwise actors who sold bitUSD below parity are looking to have their investment losses covered by the "system" (read Federal Reserve) creating new btsx (read QE) and creating an artificial market for toxic investments in bitUSD (read Mortgage backed securities)

Markets that are only speculators never work.  There must be a customer base first. (regression theorem)

Said another way... In all the readings about market pegs I read, Sally wanted to hedge her position in bitUSD.   We never found Sally.

So who wants bitUSD? Who are they?  What problem does bitUSD solve?

The only customers for such a service that I can see are exclusively crypto business. Ones that do not want give up their privacy, want to remain out of fiat but have fixed costs and want to avoid the fluctuations of price.  But here is the catch.... If my business has costs at the end of the month and I have to pay those costs if I cant pay for it in bitUSD then what was the point?   I just held bitUSD for a few weeks and then had to convert to fiat anyway.  I may as well have just used bitpay from the get go and gave up my privacy upfront and skipped the bitUSD step.

So I think bitUSD's customers will most likely come from those who will sacrifice everything for privacy.  They dont even believe in crypto but are forced to use it because in their industry they must remain anonymous. 

Just like bitcoin I think the original users of bitUSD will come from the silkroad type market places.  Think Open bazaar/ Dark Market/ Silk Road 2, etc.

And just like bitcoin it may take them 1-3 years to catch on and start using it at all let alone in serious volumes.