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You even capitalized LOOSE, as if you were indicating that you knew that was misspelled but you were following the meme.
lol .. thanks @ arhag for pointing it out .. I meant to write lose ..joke not intended
Quote from: xeroc on October 26, 2014, 12:57:25 pmQuote from: amencon on October 25, 2014, 11:22:55 pmI'd hope nobody has invested more than they can afford to lose at this point, though I know that's probably not the case for some. Ideally most discussions and arguments would academic in nature, but this is a business so I know that's very naive to wish for.I'm sorry .. I should have stated that somewhere: I am super naive and my wife keeps telling me so on a regular basis .. Disclaimer: I am in for the fun .. and to see a system grow that I think is superior to anything mankind has seen yet .. and I would never advise for or against any investment .. that's up to everybody else to decide .. but if you do .. my second sentence ALWAYS states: don't invest more than you are willing to LOOSE!Haha, I'm a little bit sad I get that joke...
Quote from: amencon on October 25, 2014, 11:22:55 pmI'd hope nobody has invested more than they can afford to lose at this point, though I know that's probably not the case for some. Ideally most discussions and arguments would academic in nature, but this is a business so I know that's very naive to wish for.I'm sorry .. I should have stated that somewhere: I am super naive and my wife keeps telling me so on a regular basis .. Disclaimer: I am in for the fun .. and to see a system grow that I think is superior to anything mankind has seen yet .. and I would never advise for or against any investment .. that's up to everybody else to decide .. but if you do .. my second sentence ALWAYS states: don't invest more than you are willing to LOOSE!
I'd hope nobody has invested more than they can afford to lose at this point, though I know that's probably not the case for some. Ideally most discussions and arguments would academic in nature, but this is a business so I know that's very naive to wish for.
Quote from: Mars.Walker on October 23, 2014, 09:42:43 amQuote from: xeroc on October 23, 2014, 09:28:00 amJust because some methods worked well the last 20 years does not imply they will work well today ..If you see how many people lost their saving these few days for something that should be handled better,you wouldn't dare to say your way of thinking "works well". It's not even started yet,once word got out "every dirt of Bitshares can easily find it on the forum",major investor would be scared away.keep in mind,share price\market depth,is the key to hold the BitUSD peg.Without that, BitUSD would have no liquidity.And those ordinary folks who trusted the "risk less than bitcoin" to buy into BitUSD,would've lost their money because of low liquidity in a black swan event that cause the share price to drop rapidly just because of you "like the way" and disregard for image.You may not have to care about the BTSX price,but you sure should care about how that would affect the BitUSD peg and the future of Bitshares . To suit your need for "open and active communication on the forum" for 200 or less people,you're essentially putting hundreds of thousands of people's right at risk, not to mention the future of this business.You need to think bigger,pinky.....I agree with that ..it seems we talked past each otherMy issue is,a) I like BM openly discussing his thoughts in open PROPOSALSb) I dislike people trading on yet to be finalized proposals and afterwards complaining about their loss - that is in NO WAY the devs fault!c) I do like open discussions about how to make the future brighter .. call me naive IMHO this is tough territory .. that's what early investors have to face .. and that's why they might profit the most from it ..IMHO we should take these huge steps to improve the system RIGHT NOW .. (read: "as early as possible") ...Disclaimer: for me .. all of this is a hobby and I am mostly fascinated about the tech .. again .. call me naive .. I know I am .. further more .. I haven't but serious money in this .. mainly because my wife is not as "brave" (read "stupid" or "naive") .. as I am .... people fearing for their existence due to the recent price drop shouldn't have invested that much in the first place ..maybe I am talking BS above .. because I am a tech guy, not an investor .. nor an economist ..
Quote from: xeroc on October 23, 2014, 09:28:00 amJust because some methods worked well the last 20 years does not imply they will work well today ..If you see how many people lost their saving these few days for something that should be handled better,you wouldn't dare to say your way of thinking "works well". It's not even started yet,once word got out "every dirt of Bitshares can easily find it on the forum",major investor would be scared away.keep in mind,share price\market depth,is the key to hold the BitUSD peg.Without that, BitUSD would have no liquidity.And those ordinary folks who trusted the "risk less than bitcoin" to buy into BitUSD,would've lost their money because of low liquidity in a black swan event that cause the share price to drop rapidly just because of you "like the way" and disregard for image.You may not have to care about the BTSX price,but you sure should care about how that would affect the BitUSD peg and the future of Bitshares . To suit your need for "open and active communication on the forum" for 200 or less people,you're essentially putting hundreds of thousands of people's right at risk, not to mention the future of this business.You need to think bigger,pinky.....
Just because some methods worked well the last 20 years does not imply they will work well today ..
... perspective is everything.
Seems your trading strategy is flawed ...
b) I dislike people trading on yet to be finalized proposals and afterwards complaining about their loss - that is in NO WAY the devs fault!
Perspective is everything, there is no "objective" right thing to do in this case. The stories we choose to tell ourselves affect how we feel about things. So there you go... change the perspective and it changes the perception of "fair". Now back to work on making BTS great.
Openness does not contradict discretion.Just need to do better to achieve both.I want to go the the bathroom to take a dump......I tell you , "I want to take a dump",that's openness .I tell you , "I have a thing to do,talk to you later" , that's discretion.I tell you , "I need to use the bathroom" , that's both openness and discretion .Openness is not Post and Repost.....That's way too simplified.And as Bytemaster and stan have learned in the past year,a post without carefully thinking may even land themselves into potential legal trouble. They have a kiss ass legal team to sensor their word before other people,but they can't monitor every post to give legal advice.One wrong word , it changes everything.That's not a over statement.
Perspective is everything, there is no "objective" right thing to do in this case. The stories we choose to tell ourselves affect how we feel about things. So here is a perspective for your consideration.BTSX, VOTE, DNS, AGS, and PTS are all separate groups of people each of which wants something from *me* whether I owe them anything or not. They all want me to do, say, or build something that makes them money. Now the reality is that my goal is to build the best toolkit and keep pushing things forward on that front. People gave us money "no strings attached" to build these things. Other people took my work on the toolkit and turned it into BTSX. I gave grants to DNS & Play. Everyone else is an independent group of people speculating on an asset that they know is not a security, has no legally binding promises, and is a hope.All of these groups represents a "team" or "tribe" that wants me to play for them and no one wants me to play "against them" in the competitive free market. So the first team that made a bid for my attention was VOTE.... vote offered me and everyone on our team a large stake along with PTS / AGS... but offered BTSX nothing. This was a fair and legitimate way for me to go... after delivering on BTSX core features and spending funds donated prior to BTSX snapshot. But it would have made team BTSX very upset at losing their key players for long term growth even though plans were in place to allow BTSX to steal all of the work paid for by team VOTE for free. So the next thing I did is propose a bid for my attention that would bring everyone under one roof. Who's call is it? Mine. Do I get to be arbitrary? Yes because I get to chose which project I work on. So it comes down to me negotiating with BTSX on the terms of the deal. I effectively ask BTSX to share drop on the competition as a means of motivating but not requiring them to join us. So team BTSX got my attention and every other team got something out of the deal. DNS + VOTE could still exist and could still compete. We didn't actually *buy* their stake, we just honored it with no strings attached. Did they get a "fair price"... well, a gift is certainly fair. Now DNS is faced with a challenge on how to develop, grow, and hire talent. They are free to form a team, hire developers, and make a go. Nothing has been taken from them except their project lead has handed it off. They are free to plunder all the work we do on BTS and thus have much cheaper development cost... so all DNS must pay for is marketing. If DNS wants to get talent back it would likely have to dilute significantly to hire someone to take the helm.... I believe Toast is even willing to hand over 100% of the Dev fund and I will gladly give my and I3 stake in DNS to the new management.So there you go... change the perspective and it changes the perception of "fair". Now back to work on making BTS great.
Just my 2 cents, but I just LOVE how BM shares his thoughts. I don't give a damn about "professionals". Following advices on this forum, I have read the book "zero to one", loved it, and I now definitively see bytemaster as one of those guys that has the guts to change the world, to impose his vision. His candid "PR naivety" is not a default : it is what make people loyal to him, it is what gives me more and more confidence in BTSX the more I learn about it and the more I get to know our leading team through this forum. "Professionals" follow the rules that worked before, the rules of the past. Here, the future is being built, the rules of the past may not apply. The cryptoworld is such that we probably don't have time to reach a better consensus. How many great leaders didn't give a damn and just moved on towards their vision ? It seems to me that the Jobs, Zuckerberg and Musk's of this world don't really care about PR. When Elon Musk admits Tesla is overvalued : http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/25/investing/tesla-netflix-momentum-stocks/, how cool is that ?I'm now all in in bitshares, thank you for sharing all your thoughts BM, that way we really feel like we're part of the adventure.
Quote from: currencydebt on October 22, 2014, 06:19:23 pmWould it be prudent to ask that any developers who are paid by the capital infusion funds sign non-compete agreements, so that if they walk away at some point in the future they are not doing so to set-up a direct competitor of bitshares?A DAC is not a legal entity. It would be impossible to enforce such an agreement.
Would it be prudent to ask that any developers who are paid by the capital infusion funds sign non-compete agreements, so that if they walk away at some point in the future they are not doing so to set-up a direct competitor of bitshares?
Quote from: OldMan on October 22, 2014, 10:40:27 pmDo folks really want to model DACs on traditional corporate paradigms?Take BM and the key devs up into the ivory tower and have all correspondence vetted and neutered by the PR police to ensure the share price is not inconvenienced?The whole point of DACs is to implement a public and transparent business model with direct and unencumbered lines of communication to shareholders.BM saw an opportunity and presented it to the community.Funny how folks love to knock big bank/corp/gov but push to recreate the same systems they deride.Freedom and security do not run together.Respect to BM for his candour and courage.Maybe you haven't notice,every time BM does something that's not in the basic principal of a DAC (total decentralization),he and stan claim that"that's what a traditional company would do" "merge,that's what a traditional company does" "This is not a crypto currency,this is a company,we do what company does" "the social consensus is not a suicide pack"That's alright,for the sake of the future of the Bitshares enterprise,I concur every major decision Bymemaster does.But that does not change the fact that this is still a enterprise,not some dream of the libertarians.-----If you want libertarians's DAC , go to the ones who don't not care about their shareholder's price,just like ..... .... .... .. you name it ,the ones who watch their share price shrink 90% and still do nothing aggressive to change that. Just like bytemaster said, Perspective is Everything.Forum has only 200+ people behind it ,there are more shareholders and supports out there ,as well as enemies. If bytemaster were to entertain a few people on the forum instead of making right business decisions for the very best interest of his shareholders , I would've go to the PPC community.(That's a happy family,even the price of their DAC shrink 90%,they're still very happy,dancing with Sunny King,and Sunny King was very happy too,he does all kinds of little useful software for the people,and still not concern with the Price )Bytemaster is an entrepreneur, not just a developer.One wrong move,the future of this enterprise would be in deep trouble.Had NXT at least pretended a fair distribution model other than 71 people,they would have been popular , Bitshares would not have been grabbing the heart of the people by "fair distribution" so easily. Every time people wants to buy NXT , there are always a lot more people out there reminding him that "NXT only enrich 71 people".Although I think now the distribution of NXT has become more fair than before,but still,the "71 big stick" is a worst nightmare for their image.You don't need to believe me. I've watched startups fallen , I've watched major business failed .I'm a libertarian myself,I've never wore a suit.I like T-shirts. But that kind of decision only threatens what I look on formal events.This is a business,one wrong move,there are thousands of people lives ruined. I haven't even count in the "depositor" that would deposit their money into BitUSD on this equation.
Do folks really want to model DACs on traditional corporate paradigms?Take BM and the key devs up into the ivory tower and have all correspondence vetted and neutered by the PR police to ensure the share price is not inconvenienced?The whole point of DACs is to implement a public and transparent business model with direct and unencumbered lines of communication to shareholders.BM saw an opportunity and presented it to the community.Funny how folks love to knock big bank/corp/gov but push to recreate the same systems they deride.Freedom and security do not run together.Respect to BM for his candour and courage.
If you want to discuss,we can hold mumble,off the record,brain storm,whatever with Bytemaster regularly.But the forum,every major competitors is trying to dig dirt in it.Once they dig it,they would be having a field day.
Just my 2 cents, but I just LOVE how BM shares his thoughts. I don't give a damn about "professionals". Following advices on this forum, I have read the book "zero to one", loved it, and I now definitively see bytemaster as one of those guys that has the guts to change the world, to impose his vision. His candid "PR naivety" is not a default : it is what make people loyal to him, it is what gives me more and more confidence in BTSX the more I learn about it and the more I get to know our leading team through this forum.
Quote from: roadkill on October 22, 2014, 03:56:51 pmQuote from: bytemaster on October 22, 2014, 03:28:59 pmYep.. we are moving toward much more controlled PR.... but unfortunately that means my posting around here will have to stop (or be greatly reduced) and things will have to move slower.-5%Perhaps that post was an example of bad PR... we haven't identified the balance... but I hope to remain accessible and transparent because that is what people expect.
Quote from: bytemaster on October 22, 2014, 03:28:59 pmYep.. we are moving toward much more controlled PR.... but unfortunately that means my posting around here will have to stop (or be greatly reduced) and things will have to move slower.-5%
Yep.. we are moving toward much more controlled PR.... but unfortunately that means my posting around here will have to stop (or be greatly reduced) and things will have to move slower.
that avalanche goes the wrong direction you need to take you monitor and flip it up-side-down ... then all's right again
Quote from: MeTHoDx on October 22, 2014, 06:02:08 pmI'll be happy when I see BTS at $0.25.I AM a tad unrealistic! As I see it, $0.25 will be a good start. But then, I think that if/when BitShares gets that much notice, it should gain some critical mass. This is SO MUCH more useful than Bitcoin. If it's hovering at that market cap, it's going to get a ton more attention. If we reach 10x, then I honestly see this getting a lot bigger.
I'll be happy when I see BTS at $0.25.
If DNS wants to get talent back it would likely have to dilute significantly to hire someone to take the helm.... I believe Toast is even willing to hand over 100% of the Dev fund and I will gladly give my and I3 stake in DNS to the new management.
Quote from: Mars.Walker on October 22, 2014, 06:14:58 pm"BTS is good,worth 500USD without any problem".All we have to do is agree not to sell our BTSX for less than $500 USD. Is anyone else willing to put a sell order for BTSX at $500 USD? Or BitUSD? We could create a giant wall that could make for great PR!
"BTS is good,worth 500USD without any problem".
Quote from: bytemaster on October 22, 2014, 03:58:42 pmPerhaps that post was an example of bad PR... Remember that you can learn anything, "bad at PR" is just a limiting label (perhaps ego calls it "too honest for PR").
Perhaps that post was an example of bad PR...
Quote from: Mars.Walker on October 22, 2014, 06:00:10 pmQuote from: CLains on October 22, 2014, 05:48:31 pmBTS 20x is our Target, folks. Never lose sight of that. Is that joke?We will not recognize anything but 500 USD per BTSX for the future. I think that's a tad unrealistic... I'll be happy when I see BTS at $0.25.
Quote from: CLains on October 22, 2014, 05:48:31 pmBTS 20x is our Target, folks. Never lose sight of that. Is that joke?We will not recognize anything but 500 USD per BTSX for the future.
BTS 20x is our Target, folks. Never lose sight of that.
QuoteYep.. we are moving toward much more controlled PR.... but unfortunately that means my posting around here will have to stop (or be greatly reduced) and things will have to move slower.-5%. We do not want that. We appreciate your thoughts even if some times they are not well communicated and affect the market massively. It is better to share honestly your thoughts as you are already doing rather than having no idea of future plans in your head and get caught by very nasty surprises..
The forum will remain important... this will be a gradual change as part of the rebranding and marketing campaign.
Quote from: bytemaster on October 22, 2014, 03:28:59 pmQuote from: Mars.Walker on October 22, 2014, 03:26:08 pmIf only you can do this article in the first place to laid down all the facts and let people to digest before you make the proposal......If only you can communicate with other devs first.... Bad management and business and PR part,I'll say.It does not had to happened.Yep.. we are moving toward much more controlled PR.... but unfortunately that means my posting around here will have to stop (or be greatly reduced) and things will have to move slower.If that helps with the development and public image,and that's what it takes,that should be it.That kind of stuff should be handled in a more professional way.That's what a 50 million company should do.You can post a thousand news without compromising the PR image.You can post about "how fast I've made the DPOS","what kind of function I want to add on the menu",that's cool,man.But something that's related to the business itself,you should not tread lightly.The world is changing,BTS is changing,you need to adapt as well.
Quote from: Mars.Walker on October 22, 2014, 03:26:08 pmIf only you can do this article in the first place to laid down all the facts and let people to digest before you make the proposal......If only you can communicate with other devs first.... Bad management and business and PR part,I'll say.It does not had to happened.Yep.. we are moving toward much more controlled PR.... but unfortunately that means my posting around here will have to stop (or be greatly reduced) and things will have to move slower.
If only you can do this article in the first place to laid down all the facts and let people to digest before you make the proposal......If only you can communicate with other devs first.... Bad management and business and PR part,I'll say.It does not had to happened.
People gave us money "no strings attached" to build these things.