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Messages - Samupaha

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256
General Discussion / Re: Regarding MAS and my Vision
« on: January 02, 2016, 07:34:20 am »
Within the realm of a DEX there are several business opportunities I could pursue:

1. Become a licensed money transmitter and host our own wallet.  Under this model I would be competing with OpenLedger and others.
2. Create, Market, and Promote Prediction Markets.  Under this model I would be operating something that could be perceived as gambling. This is a business area that is not safe to enter in the US. 
3. Attempt to become a market maker.  This is not my area of expertise and requires significant capital and liquid markets.
4. Build another business on top of the BitShares network.

What about creating new features with FBA and demanding a fair share of the FBAs as a salary? If the feature is successful, you'll get automatic income. You don't have to build the features all by yourself, but only to help others to build their businesses.

257
General Discussion / Re: GPS to Crypto conversion
« on: January 02, 2016, 06:46:40 am »
Basic problem with land ownership and cryptotokens is that you still need some kind of authority that has power to cancel or force ownership changes. If you lose your private keys with few hundred BTS, that's not a very big problem. But if you lose your private keys that own the land where you live, that's a really really big problem.

Tim Swanson has a good paper on this, I suggest you read it first: Watermarked tokens and pseudonymity on public blockchains

But the GPS thing might be still useful... I started to think games like Ingress, where the objective is to conquer real places. With tokens tied to GPS coordinates it might be possible to build a backend for a really interesting game.

258
What do you think of Market Maker Incentivization Worker Proposal? Could that provide useful incentives for liquidity?

I don't believe bitusd will ever have liquidity on real exchanges if all market making happens on the virtual exchange.  What I propose is fundamentally different from all the market maker approaches this community has put up because it will create real liquidity instead of just more inbred trading on the virtual exchange amongst bitasset holders.  Bitasset holders are not your target group, merchants and general adoption is.  You want people using bitusd that don't even really know what bitassets are.

Yes, make a bunch of smartcoins.  Then give them to Nu and let us provide liquidity for you.

Yeah, I get what you mean. I was mostly interested if the incentive program will be any good or just useless. Seems to me a good way to get things started and then provide a reasonable incentive to grow the markets bigger to get full benefit of potential profits.

Don't know if you already noticed but we have now also the TUSD, which is a privatized market pegged asset. Maybe @bitcrab is interested in cooperation to provide TUSD/NuUSD markets?

259
General Discussion / Re: An alternative vision for Bitshares 2016
« on: January 01, 2016, 04:53:39 pm »
We have two levels of focus: The whole system and individual features.

System

With the system I mean the blockchain and how it is governed. We have the best blockchain, let's keep it that way and make it even better. This means that we can't just focus on individual features but to remember also look at the system as a whole. We need to nurture it as a whole system. Let's make it more antifragile.

From the blockchain governance point of view we are still lacking at least GUI for committee. Is something else critical still missing?

We need more committee members. Let's find more real members and drop all inits this year. Shouldn't be too hard to achieve?

Marketing has been bad. It would be a good start if the website and blog were updated regularly. No need to have flashy videos or other gimmicks, just tell what we are up to, so outsiders don't get the picture that project is dead.

When we communicate better the strengths of our blockchain and all the possibilities it offers, I hope we can attract more users, developers and investors. Now it's like this amazing blockchain is just our little secret and nobody else knows about it.

Fee Backed Assets are going to be really important part of funding new features. Let's make sure that everybody knows that FBA exists and how it can be used.

Individual features

If we want to get the blockchain profitable, we need to have profitable features. This should be the focus for everybody.

No need to get everybody to work on same feature at the same time, we can have lots of different projects. But when you are thinking about business idea or should you start developing something or should you invest, try to focus on short term profitability.

Hopefully FBA will bring lots of funding money on the table, but it's not going to fund everything. Something is still left for the workers. When thinking who should you vote to be funded, focus on if the feature will be useful for somebody in the short term. If it is useful, it will bring money in. Right now we need just some profitable examples for others to be inspired to do their own thing in the Bitshares blockchain.

Stealth is already coming, that's awesome, it has been wished by so many that it probably is useful. Point of sale system might get more store owners interested in Bitshares, which is very promising.

Recurring and scheduled payments are great for any kind of subscription based service. As far as I know, there is no competition in the cryptosphere. We should probably prioritize these and try to monopolize the market.

What comes to the exchange itself as a feature, I think it's kind of vague to say that we should focus on making it better. Better for what? An exchange can be used for many things. Of course the user experience etc. should be polished, but besides that there should be more clear objectives. Who wants to use it right now and bring profits for Bitshares? Let's go after those people and serve them first.

Features/businesses that I have mixed feelings:

Any kind of crowdfunding platform. Right now there is lots of competition, it might be hard to get any meaningful traction fast. But on the other hand, would it really be that hard to try something in small scale? Like forking Mike Hearn's Lighthouse to work with Bitshares?

Features/businesses that I would delay:

Prediction markets. Let's face it, Augur is already leading. They have lots of intelligent people and a big chunk of money. If we are seriously going to go for prediction markets, we need a good team and enough money backing the project. It's not only the technical side, but it has to be marketed as well. There has to be website/webwallet dedicated to it, with good UI and videos to explain how it all works. So far I haven't seen any serious plans to actually make it all happen with Bitshares. So don't hold your breath while waiting PM bringing profits for Bitshares. Not going to happen soon. Probably some day, but not in the near future where I'd like our focus to be now.

Features/businesses that I would ditch for now:

All market pegged assets for cryptocurrencies (including bitBTC). These are only useful for traders, and not even everyone of them will use these. Remember, Bitshares exchange is a derivatives exchange, so all these MPAs are derivatives, not the real thing. For normal cryptouser bitBTC is inferior to real BTC because they can't use it anywhere else than in our exchange. So it will bring only little value for small group of people. That's why I'd like to see more focus on trading with gateway-BTC (and other gateway-altcoins). On the other hand, fiat/gold/silver-MPAs are useful for all people, so we should emphasize those markets more.

Feel free to add your own analysis for different features, services, products and other business ideas.

260
What do you think of Market Maker Incentivization Worker Proposal? Could that provide useful incentives for liquidity?

261
Btw, one very low risk way of providing liquidity is CCEDK's bitEUR/EUR market. Not much have been happening there lately but if you put buy and sell orders maybe other people will get interested too.

262
General Discussion / Re: An alternative vision for Bitshares 2016
« on: December 31, 2015, 07:27:50 pm »
So what should we do?

Anything that will bring paying customers. Focus on all projects that look
promising. Our main objective should be getting out as many useful products and
services as possible, as fast as possible. Many of them will fail, but with
continuous trial and error I believe we can find something that will bring
profits.
Why can MAS not be one of them?

I've tried to ask how fast MAS can be up and running but so far neither Bytemaster or Stan haven't answered. I suspect that it will take so much work that we don't see any meaningful benefit from it in 2016. I put it in the "long term projects" category.

Your ideas are great Samupaha! Let's get doing what you've suggested. It seems to me to be mostly aligned with BM's vision anyway.

Yeah, the biggest difference is the focus. I really wouldn't like to see much resources poured into MAS project at this point.

I don't believe one needs to be a hippy to employ reason to conclude that humans can organise themselves differently and in such a way that peace is one of many outcomes. Peace  ;D

I just find the hippie rhetoric to be usually kind of embarassing when the real subject is business. Better to use some other expressions to communicate.

263
General Discussion / An alternative vision for Bitshares 2016
« on: December 31, 2015, 05:24:13 pm »
Bytemaster offered his vision for the next year in a blog post. It wasn't exactly what I was hoping for, so this is my attempt to offer an alternative.

While I don't want to exactly oppose the idea of Mutual Aid Societies (MAS) that will be Bytemaster's focus on the 2016, I consider it to be highly risky. The biggest reason is that I predict that it will require an enormous amount of work until it can bring any meaningful profit for Bitshares. In my opinion, MAS project should be delayed for at least a year or two.

Secondly, I don't find the hippie style rhetoric very convincing. I don't oppose helping people and spreading peace and love to the world – but first and foremost we are trying to do business here.

So what is my vision?

Bitshares has always been to me a way to do a profitable financial revolution.

I don't propably need to warn you that the next financial crisis is lurking behind the curtains. You already know that, you've been waiting for it for a while now. It may or may not hit in the 2016, but we have to be ready for it.

Millions of people are going to be betrayed by their banks and governments. They will crave for better, fairer and more transparent banking and financial institutions that can replace the old and corrupted ones. But are governments going to make them? Of course not, they will just bail out the old ones.

I firmly believe that Bitshares can offer powerful financial tools for average person. We can be the platform where people can come to find help when their national money systems start to shake.

For all of you compassionate hippies, doesn't this sound good? Mutual Aid Society might give you brief relief when you suffer from economic crisis. But in the long run it's much more important to get the economy running again, this time preferably with more stable and secure foundation.

For all of you greedy bastards, doesn't this sound good? You'll have an unrestricted financial platform where you can make money by serving all these people looking for better services that will help them to keep on going with their lives. Make a new useful financial instrument, market it well and you can become filthy rich.

We all are both of those. We want to help other people, but we also want to get rich. Bitshares will enable you to do both at the same time.

This requires focusing on profitable services that common people can use. I can't stress enough that profitability should be the guiding principle here. If we are not making money, we are not offering a good service.

Why for a common people and not for the banks, you may ask? Because in reality banks are not interested in open blockchains that they cannot control themselves. It's useless to keep wishing that some day a big bank will come and move all their financials to our blockchain. Not going to happen.

That's why we have to think how we can create services and financial instruments that are useful for ordinary people.

We can help them to make business with price stable currencies, webwallets, point-of-sale systems, stealth transfers, etc. We can let anybody be a trader – no questions asked, just open the wallet and start trading. We can offer saving instruments for people who are afraid that their national currencies will fail, but aren't ready to invest in highly volatile cryptocurrencies.

Why Bitshares, then? What is our "unfair advantage"?

We have the best blockchain at the moment. Because of formalized governance model we can actually make all kind of changes quite painlessly. We can adapt and add new features. Just look at Bitcoin right now – they have been fighting about blocksize for months without any progress. With committee and workers we can implement any changes to the blockchain very easily. Fee Backed Assets will give more flexibility to the funding, no need to do everything as charity.

And we don't even have to fight over blocksize. Why? Because we have the fastest blockchain already. We are ready to welcome millions of users.

The Bitshares exchange will be the centerpiece of all this.

Let's embrace the fact that Bitshares exchange is a derivatives exchange rather than try to change it to be something else.

If we use the exchange only as a platform to trade other cryptocurrencies, I agree that it will not be very profitable (we have been discussing this on the forum lately). But the whole global derivatives market is HUGE. We should be going that direction rather than trying to capture the small niche market of altcoins.

Our exchange is very versatile platform that can be used to create and trade basically any kind of derivative. Let's focus on that and think how we can create markets that don't exist at the moment in the cryptosphere.

On a sidenote: I think that we should stop using the term "decentralized exchange" or DEX. Decentralization isn't really that good selling point for the exchange. Most people don't give a crap if the exchange is decentralized or not, they just want to know if they can make money by using it. That's why I suggest that we use just "Bitshares exchange" or BEX. Of course it still is decentralized and we can tell that to potential customers if they ask, but let's not emphasize it as the most important feature of the exchange. The point is all those hundreds of financial instruments that already exist or can be created easily.

So what should we do?

Anything that will bring paying customers. Focus on all projects that look promising. Our main objective should be getting out as many useful products and services as possible, as fast as possible. Many of them will fail, but with continuous trial and error I believe we can find something that will bring profits.

When evaluating business ideas, ask first how fast they can bring real users and real profits. I would rather see many small products that make money from the day one, rather than big ideas that might be very profitable someday far in the future.

Don't expect big banks or corporations getting interested in our products and services. Develop and market them for common people and small businesses.

Our market cap has been falling for too long. Time to get it up again.

I'm not a developer or a rich person who can fund all of this. This has been my attempt to inspire you all to build a better, profitable and useful blockchain for 2016.

Who is with me?

264
by borrowing say 100 USD you are neutral and simply owe the network 100 USD, which you now have and can return at anytime.
You have 100 USD
You owe 100 USD
you are net neutral.  long USD short USD

if you then sell the 100 USD in exchange for BTS :
you have BTS  (100 USD worth)
you owe 100 USD
So you are long BTS short USD

if instead you sell the 100 USD in exchange for BTC:
you have BTC (100 USD worth)
you owe 100 USD
so you are long BTC short USD

in any case you can be margin called if the value of the BTS backing the 100 USD borrowed falls below the margin requirements.  So you will be looking to ensure that whatever you are long maintains a USD value to either pay off what you borrowed or purchase enough BTS to further secure the borrowed USD.

For example if you used the 100 USD to buy BTC at $300 and BTC then went to $1000 while at the same time BTS went from $.004 to .0015 .  Depending on your collateralization you may be at risk of being margin called on the USD you borrowed.   So you could either sell $100 worth of BTC to pay off the borrow or sell some BTC for BTS to top up your collateral.

265
I'd like to see more posts on the blog. Nowadays nobody outsider knows what's happening in Bitshares because everything is in here on the forum. If somebody doesn't know what to search for, it's kinda hard to get onboard with development. Hangouts are nice of course, but I have found it difficult to get anybody outsider listen to an hour of talking.

Also the technology page on the website needs continuous updating to reflect what's been done and what's unfinished and when it might get finished.

I've been planning to get some referral income, but I want authoritative texts to link to. I can get people somewhat interested to Bitshares but I can't be the only source of information. It's awkward to say "there is not much info on this right now, try to find something on the forum or listen to this hangout where it was discussed a little bit..."

Let's take one example: Fee Backed Assets. Great tool to fund development and possibility for investors to make money.

Is it mentioned on the website? No, not anywhere.

Is there a mention on the blog that we have this kind of feature coming? No. Actually it hasn't been updated in a long time. There is not even a mention that 2.0 has come out.

If the website and official blog aren't updated, for most people it is sign that development is freezed and nothing is happening so they lose their interest.

266
STEALTH is really important feature and it needs to be implemented ASAP.

267
General Discussion / Re: My Thoughts on the Bitcoin Foundation
« on: December 31, 2015, 08:22:48 am »
Quote
We also have a larger, but somewhat related problem that the blocksize debate has made blatantly clear- governance. It seems nearly impossible to get the community to agree on anything outside of trying to increase adoption and the underlying value of the bitcoin token.

This is why I have very little faith in Bitcoin right now. It just doesn't have a governance mechanisms that could be used to solve blocksize or any other problem.

Bitcoin doesn't only need a governance model for the foundation, but even more it needs a governance model for the blockchain. A highly valuable blockchain cannot be governed like an anarchistic opensource project.

Bitshares has witnesses, committee and workers who all can be voted in or out. I consider it as a gold standard for the blockchain governance at the moment – I haven't seen anybody proposing anything better.

268
General Discussion / Re: Why Vision Matters Blog Post
« on: December 30, 2015, 06:29:06 pm »
@Akado - I will never drop the goal and requirement of profitability.  Profit is the key to sustainability which was outlined in my vision.  Everything I do is focused on PROFIT, but I want to make doing the RIGHT THING profitable.  If we make helping others profitable then it will help us help more people.

Can you explain how exactly you plan to make MAS profitable in 2016? As I have said before, I think it will require massive amount of work. I highly suspect that it wont bring any meaningful profits for Bitshares for a long time.

269
General Discussion / Re: 2016 Vision Blog Post
« on: December 30, 2015, 12:14:23 pm »
Communities that share a common philosophy are potential customers we can serve.  We have suggested two or three.

But how fast you can serve them? That's my biggest problem with MAS. I'm really skeptical that you could get thousands of paying members in 2016. You still have only a vision and (as far as I know) nothing concrete has been done.

270
General Discussion / Re: Why Vision Matters Blog Post
« on: December 30, 2015, 11:53:32 am »
I haven't forgotten the DEX, it is a critical component. I have just learned through experience that selling a DEX is a hard niche market.

Please, someone tell me the market value of Poloniex.. how much is their exchange worth?  How much is BitStamp worth?  BitFinex?    The combined revenue of all crypto currency exchanges is less than $25 million per year.  If we assume these exchanges operate with a 50% profit margin then that means $12 million per year in profit.  Based upon a 5% dividend, this would put the combined value of all exchanges in the cryptocurrency space at  $240M dollars and my guess is that is very high.

So if BitShares grew to become the only exchange in the entire market it would be worth at most 24x its current valuation. 

For me the DEX itself has never been the actual product that I've been trying to sell people. I fully agree that there is only a handful of people who are interested in trading cryptocurrencies and that really is a small niche market.

Instead I've tried to sell all those financial instruments that the DEX enables or could enable in the future. Smartcoins are great for average Joe, they can have all the benefits that bitcoin has with price stability. With bond market, UIAs, FBAs, etc. they can eventually move pretty much all of their own personal economy to the Bitshares blockchain.

The next financial crisis is coming. Instead of just trying to help people who will suffer from it, we should be focusing on building a better financial platform. We have to be ready to welcome millions of people who will be betrayed by their banks and governments. IMO that is a lot more effective way of helping than just giving some money to suffering people.

For me Bitshares has been the best way to make profitable financial revolution. I hope it will remain like that in the future too.

I think somebody here has said "go big or go home". That's the thinking I'd like to apply to the DEX. Let's not get stuck into that what it could do right now for the cryptotraders, but let's try to use it for something much bigger financial instruments. Morpheus mentioned the derivatives market, I also consider it as the gold mine.

Just look at this infographic.

Bitcoin is valued because of the COMMUNITY of freedom activists that are using it and promoting it.  It has no revenue based valuation.  A DEX doesn't inspire a community following like Bitcoin has.   

Nope. I have to strongly disagree here.

While I still hang out with bitcoinists and agree that there are lots of good people there, I think the whole community sucks. Just look at how they are debating right now about blocksize. Full of arrogant people who can't reach a consensus on a civilized manner (of course a big deal here is that Bitcoin doesn't actually have any mechanisms to make decisions on the blockchain level like Bitshares has, that makes this whole thing more difficult).

And most of Bitcoin's value comes from people who don't care about freedom, they just want to get rich. They are waiting for price to go up. If you remove all these investors and speculators, Bitcoin will lose most of it's value immediately.

This is why I think Bitshares also needs people who just want to get rich. If we build a community that consists of only freedom fighters, it will be very small and poor community.

My initial reaction to this new vision is that you are shifting away from making the blockchain and businesses around it profitable to build some kind of hippiestyle "peace & love, let's help each others" community.

You have to also remember that building a community (mainly) for libertarians is really hard. Libertarians are like cats, it's almost impossible to herd them.

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