I left mumble after posting a chat msg b/c the discussion at that time wasn't about review bd but rather about various features and how to choose them. That's an important discussion to be sure, but IMO BitShares is still too young to pull leadership decisions out of Dan / Stan's hands and into those of shareholders for development direction issues.

This was what CryptoPrometheus raised ann BM addressed near the end of the early mumble. BM did a good job IMO of explaining the role of the review board vs. how operational issues are raised, discussed and decided.

We still need some centralized leadership (with shareholder oversight) until our ecosystem is mature enough to bring issues that change the course of development in fundamental ways to the broad spectrum of shareholders.

Also, for some reason I was unable to speak, even after exiting and coming back in twice. It was like my mic was muted.

Okay good. I had your back in this Thom. Don't know if I did too great of an explanation but I tried to use the analogy of Recursion and having a solid base case/definition which I believe Dan and Stan (the Mans) are in our plan to get Bitshares out of a Jam and making it rain on all of us like a Dam 

Yes that all rhymes. Anyways you are correct. They are needed at the foundation. We need their leadership. Period. We don't even need to use the word centralized. Its counter productive and suggests their leadership is a bug rather than a feature.

There is no decentralized algorithm that can currently replace the unique human mind of our Founders. And there will not be for a very VERY long time. That's a mode of artificial intelligence that just cannot be done. "Decentralization" is like the wizard of Oz now to me. Look behind the curtain. Its only working very well for somethings but it is very counterproductive in a lot of important things especially in the life of a project so young.

Its like asking everyone in the world to be a baby's parent went it is born. What type of non$ense is that? Look at its actual parents and start there.

As long as the founders of Bitshares can keep to their word in building out Bitshares as a function that necessarily computes their philosophy as defined then there is no way that we can have any other type of system other than one in which Bitshares is decentralized. For even they have to follow the rule of law (or its automated computing function). As they are the ones providing the definitions of its system with upgrades.

If Satoshi had stuck with his project and lead it to a point where it could really walk on its own in its original vision it wouldn't have grown up to be such a bad teen with no Father and increasingly bad influences around it which now unfortunately determine its future. Reminds me of a lot of these Chicago kids...

Anyways we need to not fall into that same trap with all this decentralized decentralized decentralized mantras. Everything in moderation and in due time. If WE coded it correctly "decentralization" will naturally happen AT THE RIGHT TIME and in the right way with Bitshares.

In the short term the technology doesn't work without the Human element. Period. And there are no other humans that are better for it than Dan and Stan. People need to come to grips with that and lets move forward. Right now as with any baby Bitshares naturally needs its natural parents. It needs this technology to be nurtured and developed in the right direction. America became what it was because it had the right direction and the right parents. Not the perfect direction or the perfect parents but the right ones. It had the right parents to write its base function. We shouldn't take the parents away from the child. End of story.

Awesome! Love it 

I don't think the client supports OS X 10.6.8 or lower. Do you get the same error when using the beta Light Wallet?

Hey I just tried the light wallet and I get a similar message... What versions does the client support?

Hey guys its Solomon,

So I tried using the Mac client on my Mac and I get as far as dumping the application icon into my "applications" folder. But once I click on it in there the installation quits and gives me the following error:



Does anyone know what I should do? Or has this been addressed already some where else? Thanks guys.

Sorry to ask this maybe it is obvious or already answered (I am lazy with long posts) but why use a new coin solar & sense as payment system and not bitusd? Maybe the model could be to issue Solar & Sense shares like an IPO that will get converted in bitusd once the project is launched.

Hey mf no worries. Things are still being fleshed out anyways. At least on the DAC side. Thanks for the honesty. I appreciate it. The short answer comes down to decentralized functionality. BitUSD is a great piece of functionality but the way its decentralized wouldn't work in the short term for the Sollywood TV business model. Plus the brand is synergistic in my opinion and I want to keep it that way 

That doesn't mean BitUSD won't play a role. Consumers are meant to purchase Sollars in bulk with Dollars (like game tokens) to spend on platforms which utilize Sollars (Sollywood TV / New Money). I do not see why BitUSD cannot play that role in addition to traditional payment options like PayPal Stripe Banks? All we have to do is accept bitUSD so we would be like a Bitshares merchant 

Plus when Content Creators "cash out" or burn their Sollars for Dollars I do not see why bitUSD cannot be an option we promote? Heavily? As what to cash out to? I'm saying we would accept bitUSD for Sollars and their are options here for creativity.

Actually you are right in that we would be looking to probably issue a share or bond-like unit. But that unit would not be Sollars. Sollars works just like bitUSD. It has stable and reliable economics its just artificially kept at a 1-1 exchange to the Dollar unlike BitUSD which has a different type of functionality and fee structure to achieve the same thing.

Consumers and our millenial to young adult markets do not care about the intricacies of decentralized economics. They will just care that they are getting their content at the right price and can spend at the right price.

Either way this is a project powered by BitShares and at the very end of the day that is what really matters. That we are selling the message of BitShares being the new linux. In my opinion that is what will get us to a larger market cap in the short and long-term with a killer app that is utilizing BitShares tech in any way shape or form. No one will care about the intricacies. They will just care about the marketing message which sticks in the head and creates perception and perspective.

Thanks for the input broski. Hope this helps out a little.

Then you go on with non sens part two :

Quote

Persons who hold BitVid  would not own a portion of projects which choose to use the DAC to fund or issue their own tokens. Only if you buy into them specifically would that be the case such as with Sollywood TV and Sollars and Sense.

...hhhh WHAT ? This that make any sense to you ?

By the way oco101... Did you actually listen to the BitShares Music Beyond Bitcoin episode delulo made me listen too? Those words are almost literally verbatim COB's words on their own Music DAC and how their model works... Like LITERALLY. I could give you the time if you would like. Or you could listen to it if you haven't.

I just want to make sure criticism stays constructive here. I love criticism I can take it 

Yes a lot of information has been presented here. That is because it is the Big Picture. The whole picture. But if you can honestly say you do not understand the business model then you haven't actually tried to understand it. The business model canvas is literally underneath the business model plan video.

I even give a short explanation of the model underneath both elements in addition to a short explanation in the Sollywood TV introduction if you don't have time to read or view everything...

White Papers are useless. They become outdated the moment it is released and features will most certainly change compared to what is written. Simply look at the evolution of the Ethereum White Paper. How much of what Vitalik wrote is actually relevant to the project today besides the wait for it wait for it... BIG PICTURE 

In your case I think its fair to the rest of the BitShares community that you give your critiques your best shots as you are a highly regarded representative. It looks good to the outside world who may visit the forum later and get inspired to use BitShares for their own projects. If they are viewing critiques like yours compared to the constructive ones I have received so far that does not look good on your image and the larger community image.

If you do not like the project or me then that is fair enough I can't change that. If you do not think this will bring your holdings a higher market cap that is also fair enough. That's how shark tank works Kevin 

But if you would actually like this to succeed one day then give me a chance to explain things which don't make sense for you after you have tried to understand them. If you do not have time to understand them then that is also fair. But understand your misunderstanding is not a consensus.

If you just support my videos then that is cool broski. Vote for my delegate and throw this project in the trash can of your mind. But I could still use your vote 

What if PeerTracks could add a video feature faster and more efficiently?

Hey donkeypong thanks for the thoughtful question. Its not about features in my opinion. Its about the unique experience created around the features. Going to the movies is different from watching content at home with loved ones, is different from viewing content on a mobile screen by yourself, is different from watching content at a bar with the broskis. Is different from watching content on YouTube, is different from subscription content on Netflix, is different from paying for the non$ense of Cable.

All these different experiences my have the same kinds of features enabling them. I know crazy right  But the feature doesn't make the unique experience. Its an enabler but it is not the whole picture. To go further...

The video feature of Vine, is different from the video feature of Instagram is different from the video features of YouTube is different from the video features of Netflix, is different from the video features of Cable. There are subtle to drastic tweaks in the video features and yet they all create unique experiences and communities on their platforms with very different demographics that work for their business models.

The feature that we are bringing to the table is some $ense which enables a new kind of experience we do not have at the moment with visual content. Buy in bulk and spend at real value for content and services.

That new kind of experience and its future iterations from this starting point is very dependent on my creative mind as an entrepreneur. Key to understand here is I am aiming at a highly sought after demographic BitShares does not have at the moment and plays as the key to the future of banking.

I know so is PeerTracks with music. But COB and the Music team is not me. We are different people with different motives and platforms.

Peer Track's model will not work for content distribution in my opinion. It may work for the content creation phase but that is a drastically different market. It would then be competing with the KickStarters, IndieGogo's and crowd-funding platforms along with the heavy weight production companies ect. Sollywood TV doesn't deal with that phase. Its content distribution the final frontier that hasn't been solved for content creators and acts as a serious pain point for consumers.

That is why I stated its best not to conflate film and visual content creation/distribution with music as both come with different needs and very different industry landscapes. If they would like to add video features to the BitShares Music DAC then that is interesting. Is it open-sourced?

Finally if PeerTrack would like to follow my road map I would actually encourage them too. Its one of the top causes of start-up failure. Trying to be like the competition (if you see them as competition. I don't).

PeerTrack has Notes, we make $ense. Totally different road maps I assure you. Just look at the economics of both units for starters.

People thought Myspace and Facebook were the same (I'm guilty of that). We see how that turned out.

That is finally why I am trying to encourage people not to try and make BitShares do what Bitcoin or Ripple did with its road map to large scale adoption. Yes it may have the same feature but it contains a unique value proposition that it must own to win. It doesn't have to be like the competition. It can be like itself and beat everyone. Thanks again.

Okay I just got done listening to the BitShares Music episode. I’ll probably listen to it a couple of more times just for the amount of information and relevancy.

https://soundcloud.com/beyond-bitcoin-hangouts/beyond-bitcoin-music-dac-edition-2014-10-03-starring-cedric-cobson

I'll be mentioning time pointers from the discussion so people can check it out.

Delulo thanks for linking this discussion. I owe you one 

Tl;dr BitShares Video will use the BitShares Music model to launch itself. We can definitely use it and modify it for phases of visual content creation and the film world. It is at its very least worth it to experiment with with a solid use case such as Sollywood TV w/ Sollars and Sense

Now the DAC projects will have some differences as film and its process is very different from music and its process but there will be major similarities especially with funding itself as a DAC and incentives for investors to purchase its Note-like / BitShares-like unit.

By the way is BitShares Music DAC open sourced?


Compared to BitShares Music Model

These are just my initial thoughts from my first run through of the discussion. They are not super organized but instead flow like a brainstorm. The point here is iterating on constructive criticism with more ideas that bring us closer to a solution many people can get behind.


The Note and Funding

So we would have one unit like Notes. Right now I call them BitVids for lack of a better term.

BitVids would most-likely be distributed in the same way COB described for Notes. This is what I suggested must be highly strategic for the benefit of all involved in the Funding and Financing section.

But again I want to start a serious discussion about this with community members who actually want to be involved and see this project as a profitable incentive to their BitShares holdings. I'll keep searching and I plan to make videos to speed up this process.

Just as COB explained at 31:51 we will need a pre-sale in addition to the share-drop. This is what I wanted to discuss with the community to do it the right way and with people who see its potential. Again Funding + Financing section

We would do a pre-sale/crowd-sale, and distribution such as was described for the same reasons he mentioned. We cannot solely rely on pre-allocation and dilution to fund us no matter how cool it sounds. And its very cool in theory but we all have to eat now. This is also where the 100% delegate comes in for the short-term


Holders of BitVid

11:59 is relevant to this point and its project. Persons who hold BitVid  would not own a portion of projects which choose to use the DAC to fund or issue their own tokens. Only if you buy into them specifically would that be the case such as with Sollywood TV and Sollars and Sense.

For our DAC we can make it such that registering a token to do any type of project is a fee or a burning of all BitVids which is paid to BitVid holders at a higher rate than which was initially purchased?


Selling Powered By BitShares

All projects would be powered by BitShares and that is what we plan to sell which BitShares Music has not done so well in my opinion. But they are not really filmmakers I dont believe. As such an awesome project with a clear vision and a relevant demographic that is useful to the larger BitShares community I think they are dropping the ball on this one. Content creation to tell a story is key for this generation they are aiming for. Even if its static one room content.

For every one snapchat there are a million no-name losers and not because they weren't better plays (snapchat is kind of irrelevant) but because they didn't catch on.

Content is no gaurantee but it is the visual language most connect with today. Even if you can get some of these technology kids on YouTube to review it it can be used over and over again to sell a point.

I don't say this to be an asshole. I make this point to motivate them to get their goddamn project out in the open more. If it wasn't for delulo's post I probably would have never seen just how much relevancy the project has for me and the younger generation. And just how cool their model is. The time is now not tomorrow.


BitShares Video DAC Fees

All of the fees COB named for Note holders of the BitShares Music network would apply for BitVid holders in the BitShares Video DAC network.


Sollywood TV w/ Sollars Similarities and differences

Sollywood TV is like the PeerTrack in this DAC. Its only one shop on the network. Not the entire network. And its helping out content creators in one specific way (distribution not fundraising) with one token Sollars and Sense.

Sollars and Sense is something else all together. It has no analogy in the BitShares Music model. It is not an artist coin in the same sense as was used for Justin Bieber Coin or Snoop Coin. Those sound like shares of something.

So something like a Sollar Bond would be more analogous.

Something with zero-coupon bond like qualities to gain value over time and be cashed out for Sollars or bitUSD? We would promise but not guarantee that?

Or SoLgold

Alternatively a percentage of what is bought for Sollars and Sense equally goes to Sollar Bond holders? (Sollars and sense will be sold mainly to consumers at a 1-1 exchange rate).

Or a percentage of bondholders receive some sort of value from holding the bond like a company share? Give your thoughts. There are many possibilities to create incentives for purchasing Sollar Bonds or SoLgold.

So to recap if we are going to keep with the BitShares Music model my personal project would make Sollywood TV/Sollars a hybrid between PeerTracks and an artist like Snoop Dogg on the BitShares Video DAC network.

But instead of issuing my coin Sollars and Sense (it already has an artificial market-pegged value which will be kept by consumer purchase and the freemium model) I would instead issue some type of Bond (not security) (Sollar Bond) that holders are speculating will rise in value because of Sollywood TV/Sollars and Sense utility and the way that ties to the bond.


If we launched EVERYTHING TOMORROW

So if we were to launch this thing tomorrow with a pre-sale

The BitShares Video DAC's crowdfunding model would be issuing two units

1. BitVid (the decentralized Note-like unit)
2. Sollar Bond or SoLgold (a sort of artist coin) a sort of Bond for Sollars (the bond would be marketed for donations? And given in exchange?))

If individuals buy into the Note unit (BitVid) they will be owning the BitShares Video DAC and its basic utility.
BitVid holders are expected to fund content projects which could make the network as a whole profit or gain a larger initial value. They can also utilize BitVid based on individual profit opportunities and risks. Its decentralized. (Projects that are funded are expected to (by social contract) promote a powered by BitShares message)

If they purchase the Sollar Bond unit it will be like purchasing the Justin Bieber coin or Snoop coin as you would be tied specifically to the Sollywood TV/Sollars project.


So will investors be buying Sollars and Sense directly when we begin?

Short answer is no.

Investors would not be buying Sollars and Sense Directly. Only consumers who plan to purchase content on the Sollywood TV platform would be buying the coin directly which would have its set price. We will also be giving some (Sollars and Sense) away for free if we raise in Dollars to subsidize initial content creators and get the platform going (already was planned).

Investors who want to make a profit would instead be buying the Sollar Bond/SoLgold in which we could pay out Sollars if exchange price rises above x? Typing my thoughts here.


Other Projects on BitShares Video DAC or blockchain

Others who use the BitShares Video DAC to support their projects can use different economics for their token. And as any visual content creator knows they do not need to be doing what we are doing.

What I mean to say is BitShares Video DAC does not only need to fund distribution platforms such as Sollywood TV in an exclusive manner. BitVid holders can fund anything from large scale documentaries, or any other video type project that has to do with Pre-Production, Production , Post-Production and in my case Distribution of visual content.

They can fund script software, visual effects teams, individual filmmaker movies, the next blockbuster the possibilities are endless. Now I see what Ed was trying to explain to me in the beginning. These various content projects such as mine would issue some type of token in exchange for BitVid eventually.


Will content creators and partners for Sollywood TV issue their own tokens?

So Content creators will not be issuing their own coins on Sollywood TV so in this sense we are not like PeerTrack. No other token would be used for Sollywood TV but Sollars and Sense. This may change in the future but for now that is where it starts.


Another cool Analogy

BitVid holders would be funding me as a unique artists who happens to have this crazy idea of taking on Hollywood in addition to creating his own content. 

25:15 – 27:42 He is basically describing what I think I will be as an “artist” (filmmaker) for this community. And what this proposal really is at its core. I'm asking people to bet on me and this vision.

Its large yes. But Ethereum is larger and look at what they accomplished in a year. Where do you think this project would be in a year if our community got behind it and promoted it with my visual leadership? Its about priorities people. What is BitShares value proposition? Lets stick to it.


Final Initial Thoughts

As COB rightly pointed out if we are going to launch a DAC of this sort then there has to be some sort of use case experience that launches with it in order to give people a practical example of what can be done. In this case it is Sollywood TV with Sollars and Sense.

Those are all my initial thoughts to get a conversation going about utilizing the BitShares Music model. I'll have my delegate registered soon. Stay tuned.

As always Feedback Feedback Feedback on any point. Doesn't have to be everything