BitShares Forum
Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: bytemaster on January 13, 2015, 05:21:26 pm
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http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/13/NuBits-is-a-Ponzi-Scheme/
The primary purpose of this post is to introduce anyone interested in NuBits to BitUSD with a clear comparison.
Edit by testz: Change subject to reflect blog subject, the link stay as is.
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I think you could have explained it fairly (as you do) without using the Ponzi label (which is unnecessarily sensationalist). To me, that implies fraud beyond the design of NuBots. It imputes some dishonest intentions. I'd prefer to believe that the NuBots people are honest, even if it's a flawed design that relies on IOUs. Aside from that criticism, the article is well-written.
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I think you could have explained it fairly (as you do) without using the Ponzi label (which is unnecessarily sensationalist). To me, that implies fraud beyond the design of NuBots. It imputes some dishonest intentions. I'd prefer to believe that the NuBots people are honest, even if it's a flawed design that relies on IOUs. Aside from that criticism, the article is well-written.
Agreed.
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Stan better stop everything and camp fulltime at BTCtalk now.
The Peercoin community is big and fairly mature and this looks like an attack on them. Its not going to go down well and will probably hurt us. Still, if we can get our army in full force and get big discussions going it will introduce BitUSD to a larger audience who might be interested in a safe heaven with Bitcoin collapsing.
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http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/13/NuBits-is-a-Ponzi-Scheme/
That's a really good article bytemaster. +5%
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I think ponzi scheme is different from a doom-to-fail-project-from-the-start ......
Nubits maybe the latter due to the mode . But ponzi means intention to defraud .
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I want to urge you to take this down as quickly as possible, because I believe it will greatly hurt us.
1) The original Nubits is a ponzi thread in our forums resulted in us looking very bad, and then looking really really dumb later on while BTS went down and NuShares went up.
2) There have been/soon will be modifications to NuBits to allow supply to also be burned if needed. This was the missing piece of their puzzle and makes it not a ponzi anymore. (It makes it more similar to bitUSD, though obviously there are differences).
I see this as yet another move by us that shoots us in the foot and gives us bad PR and drives away investors.
PLEASE stop attacking NuBits like this. Attacking our competitor in this way makes us look very, very stupid.
Its painful to watch the PR blunders continue.
Thanks.
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Seriously, please take this down before bitcointalk goes back up and someone links to this and everyone hates on us again.
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PLEASE stop attacking NuBits like this. Attacking our competitor in this way makes us look very, very stupid.
NuBits and any other crypto. We should focus on BitShares only. Even though I believe this wasn't written with a bad intention, people won't care and will see it as an attack. We shouldn't really go out like "BitShares is better than X and Y", we should just focus on our development and later on do the marketing and let the product speak by itself. But only everything is ready. It's too soon to go out like that on the other projects.
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I will revise it.
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I want to urge you to take this down as quickly as possible, because I believe it will greatly hurt us.
1) The original Nubits is a ponzi thread in our forums resulted in us looking very bad, and then looking really really dumb later on while BTS went down and NuShares went up.
2) There have been/soon will be modifications to NuBits to allow supply to also be burned if needed. This was the missing piece of their puzzle and makes it not a ponzi anymore. (It makes it more similar to bitUSD, though obviously there are differences).
I see this as yet another move by us that shoots us in the foot and gives us bad PR and drives away investors.
PLEASE stop attacking NuBits like this. Attacking our competitor in this way makes us look very, very stupid.
Its painful to watch the PR blunders continue.
Thanks.
Professional PR suggestion :
Change title to "What is Nubits?"
Delete the word "ponzi" from all over the article .
Compare them to those centralized banks .
Predict what their downfall would be .
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Sometimes it's important to take a stand.. you just have to pick your fights. I don't see anything wrong with challenging them on the facts but ponzi is fraud so, need to be especially careful. So long as the principal representation from both sides stick to the facts, it could even be useful to hammer out what is good practice and dismiss other random offering that might try the same. In the event it does become a slanging match, then we need to resist moving away from the fact. It's also important not to humiliate the opponent and when in error it's important to be gracious in defeat. I think it's a good post.
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I think you could have explained it fairly (as you do) without using the Ponzi label (which is unnecessarily sensationalist). To me, that implies fraud beyond the design of NuBots. It imputes some dishonest intentions. I'd prefer to believe that the NuBots people are honest, even if it's a flawed design that relies on IOUs. Aside from that criticism, the article is well-written.
Agreed.
Also agree.
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I think you could have explained it fairly (as you do) without using the Ponzi label (which is unnecessarily sensationalist). To me, that implies fraud beyond the design of NuBots. It imputes some dishonest intentions. I'd prefer to believe that the NuBots people are honest, even if it's a flawed design that relies on IOUs. Aside from that criticism, the article is well-written.
I agree.
Also...
Unlike the NuBits custodian, the BitUSD short seller is forced to cover their position while they still have 200% reserves.
You keep repeating the 200% margin call limit statement. This is not what is in the current code! I repeat, this is not what is in the current code. Please correct it to 150% in all future writing.
And, if you intended the margin call limit to be at 200% (which I hope you do because I think that makes more sense), then please correct the code.
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When/if Nubits does crash, the bagholders cannot say they were not warned.
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BTCtalk is back up! Take cover!!!
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I disagree with this quote from the blog post:
The US government has no realistic means of ever paying off [its] debt...
A country can always inflate its way out of debt.
In other words, the national debt is in nominal terms. I.e. it is a certain number of dollars. Bondholders have no guarantee about the real value of the goods and services represented by this nominal debt.
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Great article... its not FUD. It's a warning to nubits and shines light on bitshares
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Very good article despite the sensationalist headline, the part about the solvency of the system in the current bear-market is interesting, and the comparison at the end really hammers home how brilliant collateralized market-pegged assets are! I just wish everyone else would wake up to it..
+5%
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+5% Great Article
I would say the timing is bad as we haven't made many friends at NXT and the last article was Bitcoin negative imo.
From the description though, NuBits is a classic ponzi and BM is probably one of the few that can clearly articulate that. So while the title sounds sensationalist, it is justified & we'd be doing a disservice to crypto not to warn people about this.
Also when it fails, it will look bad on all BitCurrencies unless we both warn people about it and in the midst of the controversy this creates now, take the opportunity to explain how BitUSD works differently to a wider audience.
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I disagree with this quote from the blog post:
The US government has no realistic means of ever paying off [its] debt...
That might be technically correct but you can bet that creditors consider the reality that what is owed is real wealth..a little flex in the number that is money is something, trying to get off with not paying is another and the reality of the US economy should give everyone pause for thought.. the only issue that might keep the creditors at bay, is they have the inverse problem of overproduction relative to a world that cannot afford it. Both ends of the problem could come crashing down but it's more likely there will be a hard uncomfortable squeeze.
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This is terrible, terrible PR. We don't need any more haters - I urge you to remove the word ponzi from the article.
In addition, I would suggest that you run all future blog posts via some kind of PR intermediary before you publish them to avoid mistakes like this in the future.
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@bytemaster: response from "tomjoad" on nubits forum, post titled "Dan Larimer has once again resorted to name-calling as a substitute for effective marketing":
Title: NuBits is a Ponzi Scheme https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=13246.05
Dan - We're not going to tarnish our communications by posting an aggressive rebuttal. Whatever shortcomings we privately think are ingrained as flaws in the BitShares design have remained silent out of respect for a fellow competitor in the cryptosphere. One of our core team members, Ben Rossi, expressed diplomatic admiration for BitShares in a recent podcast.
There are several mechanisms planned to reduce the supply of NuBits one day, including variable transaction fees and NBT-for-NSR burning. Many of your own community members in particular have changed their view on NuBits with that last option. We'd love to read about it in your blog sometime, preferably without the "ponzi" label that was clearly included to increase your page views.
We know it must be tempting to take drastic action when your share price is down heavily on the day, after making so many promises to your community. Let's try and build up an ecosystem together rather than creating sensationalist headlines that don't contribute in the slightest to our shared goal of digital currency development.
https://discuss.nubits.com/t/dan-larimer-has-once-again-resorted-to-name-calling-as-a-substitute-for-effective-marketing/1081
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This is terrible, terrible PR. We don't need any more haters - I urge you to remove the word ponzi from the article.
In addition, I would suggest that you run all future blog posts via some kind of PR intermediary before you publish them to avoid mistakes like this in the future.
:P :P
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This is terrible, terrible PR. We don't need any more haters - I urge you to remove the word ponzi from the article.
In addition, I would suggest that you run all future blog posts via some kind of PR intermediary before you publish them to avoid mistakes like this in the future.
>:( my worry is that Nubits will refine their design base on BM's article .....
8)
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>:( my worry is that Nubits will refine their design base on BM's article .....
8)
You worry BitShares won't double down and beat them at their own game again?
Another more positive bitcointalk thread notes the uptick in Bitshares assets.. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=923698.msg10140714 to which I've suggested it is a good place for sheltering in a storm. btw what's happening with Bitcoin!?.. I've lost track not having so many now.
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>:( my worry is that Nubits will refine their design base on BM's article .....
8)
You worry BitShares won't double down and beat them at their own game again?
Another more positive bitcointalk thread notes the uptick in Bitshares assets.. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=923698.msg10140714 to which I've suggested it is a good place for sheltering in a storm. btw what's happening with Bitcoin!?.. I've lost track not having so many now.
Chinese lunar new year is coming , big miner have to settle their debt on their factory .
Maybe that's the reason .......
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Couldn't some of this blog-writing energy be better spent...gee, I don't know, maybe returning CoinBase's call?
(http://www.yourdatingplan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/when-to-call-a-girl-back.jpg)
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Before going any further I would like to clarify that I have no evidence to suggest the people behind NuBits and NuShares have intent to defraud. This article merely aims to highlight the structural problems with NuBits as I see them. Some people have suggested that I should not use the phrase “Ponzi Scheme” because it could be offensive, but that would merely make me complicit and harm those who read this blog. Until new information surfaces that proves that NuBits has at least 100% reserve which are secure against theft, fraud, or misappropriation then I will maintain the fully objective, non-FUD, opinion that a NuBit is at best an unsecured IOU from unknown issuers. It only becomes a Ponzi scheme once NuBits is forced to print new NuBits to pay interest on old NuBits. They are not currently doing this, but due to the fractional reserve, naked-shorting that I believe is being practiced it is inevitable. Even Ponzi started out with honest intentions.
It is my sincere hope that the fans of NuBits can identify and clarify any misunderstandings in this post. If you have identified the secret to high-liquidity, low-risk, pegged crypto-currencies then it is something I want to understand and share with my readers.
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Before going any further I would like to clarify that I have no evidence to suggest the people behind NuBits and NuShares have intent to defraud. This article merely aims to highlight the structural problems with NuBits as I see them. Some people have suggested that I should not use the phrase “Ponzi Scheme” because it could be offensive, but that would merely make me complicit and harm those who read this blog. Until new information surfaces that proves that NuBits has at least 100% reserve which are secure against theft, fraud, or misappropriation then I will maintain the fully objective, non-FUD, opinion that a NuBit is at best an unsecured IOU from unknown issuers. It only becomes a Ponzi scheme once NuBits is forced to print new NuBits to pay interest on old NuBits. They are not currently doing this, but due to the fractional reserve, naked-shorting that I believe is being practiced it is inevitable. Even Ponzi started out with honest intentions.
It is my sincere hope that the fans of NuBits can identify and clarify any misunderstandings in this post. If you have identified the secret to high-liquidity, low-risk, pegged crypto-currencies then it is something I want to understand and share with my readers.
+5% +5% +5%
Finally , for once , I don't want to shut you up .
Just this once :P
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Yes, that's good.. hope you added that comment to the blog.
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Yes, that's good.. hope you added that comment to the blog.
Second paragraph on Blog... changed the title a bit too.
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>:( my worry is that Nubits will refine their design base on BM's article .....
8)
You worry BitShares won't double down and beat them at their own game again?
Another more positive bitcointalk thread notes the uptick in Bitshares assets.. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=923698.msg10140714 to which I've suggested it is a good place for sheltering in a storm. btw what's happening with Bitcoin!?.. I've lost track not having so many now.
As a reaction to the (probably) false flag "je suis Charlie" event, the controllers (as fronted by Britain's Cameron today) are trying to initiate a crackdown on cryptography on the internet and on privacy in general. Big players are concerned that this will disrupt the crytpt-currency movement.
UK Prime Minister Proposes Encryption Ban: What That Means for Bitcoin
http://insidebitcoins.com/news/uk-prime-minister-proposes-encryption-ban-what-that-means-for-bitcoin/28655
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Dan's unique drum is what sets BTS apart from all the other crypto's. It's unfiltered and delivers hard truth's that many competitors don't want to acknowledge. We don't want Dan's thoughts and words to go through the PR dumb down filter. Alt coins and Currencies are a totally unique and new concept for humans... It is counter-productive to try to fit them into a cookie cutter, make everyone happy PR mold.
Boldness is what will make BTS a huge success. Vanilla tiptoeing and walking on eggshells PR and Marketing will only suffocate us.
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As a reaction to the (probably) false flag "je suis Charlie" event, the controllers (as fronted by Britain's Cameron today) are trying to initiate a crackdown on cryptography on the internet and on privacy in general. Big players are concerned that this will disrupt the crytpt-currency movement.
Nonsense.. the counterbalance is far stronger.. they are desperate to revive a dying economy. The Conservatives might want to indulge their nastyparty motivations but they are hobbled by the LibDems and the economic interests will overpower all other considerations. If the UK.gov does fall the wrong way, it will only be an error in effort to contain and control the mess they've created.
Given the tone of the call for information and the priorities for the UK atm, I would expect that when they do get their act together and suggest an interest, it will be in support of the UK playing host to digital economy.
Big players might become frustrated but the utility of blockchain technology cannot be denied.
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Dan's unique drum is what sets BTS apart from all the other crypto's. It's unfiltered and delivers hard truth's that many competitors don't want to acknowledge. We don't want Dan's thoughts and words to go through the PR dumb down filter. Alt coins and Currencies are a totally unique and new concept for humans... It is counter-productive to try to fit them into a cookie cutter, make everyone happy PR mold.
Boldness is what will make BTS a huge success. Vanilla tiptoeing and walking on eggshells PR and Marketing will only suffocate us.
BitAssets are what sets BTS apart from all the other crypto's .
As for the PR part , I will I could agree with you , but I can't , because I know the truth .
Bad PR is always and will be effecting the future of this project for the very reason that the dilution income effected by the price , lower price would cause the developers don't have enough motivation to work .
It's a simple math . Ignoring PR and marketing is like watching money fly away by one wrong sentence that you wish you can undo .
PR wouldn't matter if this project is still funding by AGS .
But it's not anymore .
Of course , all the PR I'm talking about is for keeping the investors . Not apply to this case .
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Yes, that's good.. hope you added that comment to the blog.
Second paragraph on Blog... changed the title a bit too.
I much prefer the article with the edit, far more diplomatic.
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As a reaction to the (probably) false flag "je suis Charlie" event, the controllers (as fronted by Britain's Cameron today) are trying to initiate a crackdown on cryptography on the internet and on privacy in general. Big players are concerned that this will disrupt the crytpt-currency movement.
Nonsense.. the counterbalance is far stronger.. they are desperate to revive a dying economy. The Conservatives might want to indulge their nastyparty motivations but they are hobbled by the LibDems and the economic interests will overpower all other considerations. If the UK.gov does fall the wrong way, it will only be an error in effort to contain and control the mess they've created.
Given the tone of the call for information and the priorities for the UK atm, I would expect that when they do get their act together and suggest an interest, it will be in support of the UK playing host to digital economy.
Big players might become frustrated but the utility of blockchain technology cannot be denied.
Two points:
1. I didn't say they would succeed, merely that is what they are attempting. And the attempt and accompanying noise is causing FUD
UK Prime Minister Proposes Encryption Ban: What That Means for Bitcoin
http://insidebitcoins.com/news/uk-prime-minister-proposes-encryption-ban-what-that-means-for-bitcoin/28655
2. This is global, not UK-centric. Obama is making similar noises in the U.S., and other countries' "leaders" will soon be stimulated to do so by their controllers.
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Dan's unique drum is what sets BTS apart from all the other crypto's. It's unfiltered and delivers hard truth's that many competitors don't want to acknowledge. We don't want Dan's thoughts and words to go through the PR dumb down filter. Alt coins and Currencies are a totally unique and new concept for humans... It is counter-productive to try to fit them into a cookie cutter, make everyone happy PR mold.
Boldness is what will make BTS a huge success. Vanilla tiptoeing and walking on eggshells PR and Marketing will only suffocate us.
I disagree with this. Some moves I've seen are unnecessarily PR negative & VERY BTS costly. In this case though, Daniel is exceptionally strong on economics & has clearly laid out why this is doomed to fail. The potential victims of NuBits will be people who don't understand this process. I think the PR outcome should be OK but it's largely a matter of principal imo that people should be warned about high risks like this regardless of the PR outcome.
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.. what they are attempting. And the attempt and accompanying noise is causing FUD
.. This is global, not UK-centric. Obama is making similar noises in the U.S., and other countries' "leaders" will soon be stimulated to do so by their controllers.
I see no difference from the noise they've always been making.. no sudden change that should prompt any serious Bitcoin interest to sell out.
The bigger resistance will come from existing third party authorities, fearful that blockchains will make them redundant.. but again, I wouldn't expect Governments to be duped by them for long. I expect too, those disingenuous will put a lot of resources into the fight later too.
To go back on topic.. perhaps we all need to put more time into noting how what we have really isn't good enough and highlighting what all of blockchain technology can do, whatever flavour if comes in.
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I disagree with this quote from the blog post:
The US government has no realistic means of ever paying off [its] debt...
A country can always inflate its way out of debt.
In other words, the national debt is in nominal terms. I.e. it is a certain number of dollars. Bondholders have no guarantee about the real value of the goods and services represented by this nominal debt.
His statement is correct. Inflating the money supply is not a REALISTIC means of paying off debt.
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Isn't it literally impossible for the US to pay off its debt because the fed perpetually gives the treasury loans at >0% interest? I thought debt always grows and we just hope real value of dollars falls fast enough
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Mathematically the US cannot repay debt owed unless they pull some serious hyperinflation shenanigans.
Realistically they will:
1. Default
Tin foil says they will:
2. Show up with millions of BTC (following ground-up global adoption), claim it is legal tender/new world currency, pump the cap into the trillions via Wall Street, pay off their debt and resume status as the global alpha dog.
As for BM's article, sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. I applaud BM for doing so and truly hope he continues to do so in the future.
In the end, folks will come to Bitshares for honesty, integrity, truth. There is only one way to build that sort of reputation and sometimes it ain't pretty.
Plus I found the indignant 'soonish/someday/probably' response from the Nubits guy very telling...
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Isn't it literally impossible for the US to pay off its debt because the fed perpetually gives the treasury loans at >0% interest? I thought debt always grows and we just hope real value of dollars falls fast enough
True, cause each dollar in circulation is owed with interest to the fed. It's a simplified explanation, but each new dollar printed comes with a percentage of interest that is owed to the lender (fed). There's no way we can ever pay back completely the debt, cause we use those borrowed dollars to do interest payments.
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The definition of Ponzi as mentioned in wiki and quoted by BM mentions 'fradulent'. That means NuBits is accused of being having wrong motives.
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Isn't it literally impossible for the US to pay off its debt because the fed perpetually gives the treasury loans at >0% interest? I thought debt always grows and we just hope real value of dollars falls fast enough
True, cause each dollar in circulation is owed with interest to the fed. It's a simplified explanation, but each new dollar printed comes with a percentage of interest that is owed to the lender (fed). There's no way we can ever pay back completely the debt, cause we use those borrowed dollars to pay interest payments.
unless the US sell all their top secret techs and earn some big bucks from it to pay off the debt .
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So glad you started this Blog...
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the link still says: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/13/NuBits-is-a-Ponzi-Scheme/
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There are several mechanisms planned to reduce the supply of NuBits one day...
"No Ponzi schemer tells anyone exactly how it works. The purpose of a Ponzi scheme is to trick people, to take the money and run." - Mitchell Zuckoff
"When running a Ponzi scheme, how does one avoid enormous, unexpected withdrawals - runs on the bank, so to speak - that would pull back the curtain and reveal a little man blowing smoke? One way would be to attract a core of investors who could be counted on to never withdraw more than a small percentage of principal each year." - Mitchell Zuckoff
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Thanks for another great blog post, I probably red it before you modified it. I support the word Ponzi.
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Great blog post as always!
Unless the custodian liquidated to real USD they now have 50% of the capital required to buy back the NuBits.
You could have put in a bit of shameless plugging and said "liquidated to real USD (or BitUSD)" :P
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I would rather have seen this blog post with no mention of bitUSD at all, and a separate blog post on the benefits and applications of bitUSD.
I think we should also recognise that bitUSD may not be the perfect incarnation of stable crypto either, and be willing to evolve and experiment with our ideas. I'm not seeing evidence yet that bitUSD has hit the mark.
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PLEASE stop attacking NuBits like this.
+5%
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PLEASE stop attacking NuBits like this.
+5%
What is an "ATTACK" vs what is calling a spade a spade?
Anyway, this is my one and only post about NuBits and it says nothing new. *IF* something I said was factually wrong I will correct it.
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To all those complaining about Bytemaster attacking Nubits, check out this risk table he made back in 2013:
http://youtu.be/5BV55IrZi7g?t=2m35s
His predictions have a tendency to be correct.
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PLEASE stop attacking NuBits like this.
+5%
What is an "ATTACK" vs what is calling a spade a spade?
Anyway, this is my one and only post about NuBits and it says nothing new. *IF* something I said was factually wrong I will correct it.
The definition of ponzi as you quoted mentions 'fradulent'.
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PLEASE stop attacking NuBits like this.
+5%
What is an "ATTACK" vs what is calling a spade a spade?
Anyway, this is my one and only post about NuBits and it says nothing new. *IF* something I said was factually wrong I will correct it.
The definition of ponzi as you quoted mentions 'fradulent'.
I updated the post to address that part of the definition:
http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/13/NuBits-is-a-Ponzi-Scheme/
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With all the edits it will turn into a novel ;D
Last thing, the url still mentions the old title.
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From least risky to most risky -
USD - high exchangeability, no counter-party risk, but inflation
bitUSD - limited liquidity, limited exchangeability, collateral risk, underlying inflation
NuBits - high liquidity (while alive), limited exchangeability, fractional reserving, counter-party risk, underlying inflation
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Controversy and drawing contrasts can be good for marketing. This can also dig holes that require extra work to climb out of before one reaches the original starting point. Time will tell, but we'd be wise to think about how to market BitShares beyond the crypto community. I really don't know how many open-minded people are left who don't already have strong opinions about BitShares.
http://www.reddit.com/r/BitShares/comments/2sbewk/im_done_with_bitshares/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/BitShares/comments/2sbewk/im_done_with_bitshares/)
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sb
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From reddit, "Because bytemaster ignored all the recent stuff nubits has been working on. It sucks because it makes it clear he's attacking them without being aware of what's going on."
This. It makes the critique come off as disingenuous. Same with the NXT post that didn't mention that some of the addresses were special (leased forging, et cetera).
Both posts would've been fine if they actually were up to date with what the communities are doing to respond to the problems mentioned (hint: their responses are probably still inadequate) but attacking these strawman versions of our competitors just looks really bad and desperate.
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From reddit, "Because bytemaster ignored all the recent stuff nubits has been working on. It sucks because it makes it clear he's attacking them without being aware of what's going on."
I agree. It felt to me like an attack on a straw man version of NuBits which existed back in september, but which has since been improved upon. For example, the addition of being able to burn NuBits supply in order to prevent the hyperinflationary collapse which is why Bytemaster called it a ponzi back in september.
It really makes it look like we are stuck in the past, bashing the previous version of a competitor which has been doing better than us.
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From reddit, "Because bytemaster ignored all the recent stuff nubits has been working on. It sucks because it makes it clear he's attacking them without being aware of what's going on."
I agree. It felt to me like an attack on a straw man version of NuBits which existed back in september, but which has since been improved upon. For example, the addition of being able to burn NuBits supply in order to prevent the hyperinflationary collapse which is why Bytemaster called it a ponzi back in september.
It really makes it look like we are stuck in the past, bashing the previous version of a competitor which has been doing better than us.
Hmm are this implemented or in the pipeline ?
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Does it really matter if they attempt to burn Nubits? How ever many they burn, you still dont know if they have enough collateral to cover all Nubits that have been issued, because the custodians are not transparent.
Its just like when MtGox was hacked. People hoped that they could keep running the exchange on a fractional reserve basis long enough to earn enough transaction fees to earn back the collateral. Or you can move on and find a better way to exchange.
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From reddit, "Because bytemaster ignored all the recent stuff nubits has been working on. It sucks because it makes it clear he's attacking them without being aware of what's going on."
This. It makes the critique come off as disingenuous. Same with the NXT post that didn't mention that some of the addresses were special (leased forging, et cetera).
Both posts would've been fine if they actually were up to date with what the communities are doing to respond to the problems mentioned (hint: their responses are probably still inadequate) but attacking these strawman versions of our competitors just looks really bad and desperate.
I thing he addressed this here : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=913075.msg10141909#msg10141909
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This reddit post is exactly what I am talking about when I said this would hurt us:
http://www.reddit.com/r/BitShares/comments/2sbewk/im_done_with_bitshares/
(I didnt write it).
The number of people who own NuBits who will be convinced to sell them by bytemaster's attack on it is exactly zero.
The number of people who are interested in or own Bitshares, who will be convinced to sell them and walk away from Bitshares because of this post is an unknown number greater than zero.
Lets not be the troll who tells other people the thing they bought is going to go down. Lets instead tell them about the features of our product, why they need it, and why it is valuable.
This is yet another episode in the PR disaster that has been Bitshares existence. If Bitshares fails, these are the reasons why it will fail.
Stop bashing other crypto projects. Just stop. It does nothing but hurt their opinion of us.
Just be positive about Bitshares.
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This reddit post is exactly what I am talking about when I said this would hurt us:
http://www.reddit.com/r/BitShares/comments/2sbewk/im_done_with_bitshares/
(I didnt write it).
The number of people who own NuBits who will be convinced to sell them by bytemaster's attack on it is exactly zero.
The number of people who are interested in or own Bitshares, who will be convinced to sell them and walk away from Bitshares because of this post is an unknown number greater than zero.
Lets not be the troll who tells other people the thing they bought is going to go down. Lets instead tell them about the features of our product, why they need it, and why it is valuable.
This is yet another episode in the PR disaster that has been Bitshares existence. If Bitshares fails, these are the reasons why it will fail.
Stop bashing other crypto projects. Just stop. It does nothing but hurt their opinion of us.
Just be positive about Bitshares.
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=13237.msg173466#msg173466
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From reddit, "Because bytemaster ignored all the recent stuff nubits has been working on. It sucks because it makes it clear he's attacking them without being aware of what's going on."
I agree. It felt to me like an attack on a straw man version of NuBits which existed back in september, but which has since been improved upon. For example, the addition of being able to burn NuBits supply in order to prevent the hyperinflationary collapse which is why Bytemaster called it a ponzi back in september.
It really makes it look like we are stuck in the past, bashing the previous version of a competitor which has been doing better than us.
2 disclosures/statements first:
- I have never liked the idea of calling NuBits and have never called NuBits Ponzi myself. Not now, not when they first appeared. That being said I have said it then I will repeat it now - NuBits is a ton of bullshit nonsense! Everybody should be warned of that fact and proceed with extreme caution! Pretty much what BM is saying, but I'm considering the authors of the scheme stupid and not intentionally malicious...until we have actual proof.
- BM taking the time to address their project right now is a 'waist' ;) of time, imo, even without the 'ponzi' part.
With this out of the way...
Ander you are posting for a second time, claiming they will implement some form of ' Newbits burning' in the future...
While I do not believe it is possible to magically add some real market based feature(s) to their system and fix a system that screams 'non-market, air filled balloons, mixed with a tone on other nonsense and paid peg supporters'. What is their 'burning Newbits' proposal? Link/summary?
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I am thinking some people are waiting for me to start screaming bloody murder, given I am the most outspoken about BM's mud slinging.
But to be honest I think it is a pretty important public service announcement.
Of course things can always be positioned better. This is certainly no exception. And Given BM's history of missing the mark on positioning it is a shame he didn't reach out to some of the marketers before posting. this could have been seen as a valuable contribution to the crypto world spun correctly.
Hopefully we can still make it that way.
The fact of the matter is that Nubits is a disaster waiting to happen. A lot of people are going to lose a lot of money. It is going to suck for crypto, it is going to suck for bitcoin and it is going to suck bitshares. Everyone is gong to be a loser.
Allowed to go on, it is exactly the type of disaster that could be big enough to make regulators fuck up the entire crypto eco-system.
I am curios that Nubits have plans to rectify Nubits shortcomings and allow the supply to reduce. If they manage to pull it off then great and I am happy to listen to that, but contained in the statement is a confession that they launched a product, accepted millions of dollars of investments with a flawed product they hoped to fix one day.
This kind of cowboy bullshit is the kind of stuff that the community needs to end quickly before investors lose too much and regulators hurt everyone.
I would like to do an interview with Dan about this. I can edit him :P
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I would like to do an interview with Dan about this. I can edit him :P
+1
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Of course things can always be positioned better. This is certainly no exception. And Given BM's history of missing the mark on positioning it is a shame he didn't reach out to some of the marketers before posting. this could have been seen as a valuable contribution to the crypto world spun correctly.
I agree with this. This is the only thing missing in that blog. As is stands today none of the shortcoming of Nubits are fixed( they are planing to do it I know) . Was this necessary ? I guess it depend on your values and what you have to lose. Knowing that a lot of people stand to loose money, what would you have done ? Was that the best way to spell it out ? Definitively not, but to say nothing that would be wrong because if Nubits are not fixing things quickly(not even sure that this is possible) people will lose money for sure !!!
Bitshares had critics too that's the way it is. So you answer back with proof that whatever is said is wrong. Well there is nothing technically wrong with that blog !!!
Same goes with NXT vs Bitshares blog
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The number of people who are interested in or own Bitshares, who will be convinced to sell them and walk away from Bitshares because of this post is an unknown number greater than zero.
The number of people who will, months or years from now, come back to this post and think, that freaken Dan Larimer is a genius, for knowing that this closed source, anonymously run ponzi scheme will break down, and investors will lose money.
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The number of people who are interested in or own Bitshares, who will be convinced to sell them and walk away from Bitshares because of this post is an unknown number greater than zero.
The number of people who will, months or years from now, come back to this post and think, that freaken Dan Larimer is a genius, for knowing that this closed source, anonymously run ponzi scheme will break down, and investors will lose money.
That is the only way it helps us, and only at that future time. But we already had a big 'nubits is a ponzi' thread on the forums, we didnt actually need a blog post too, this only doubles up on the amount of people who think bad of us.
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Another problem with Nubits is that the buy and sell walls are on centralized exchanges. If those exchanges close down or get hacked then Nubits will suffer.
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The number of people who are interested in or own Bitshares, who will be convinced to sell them and walk away from Bitshares because of this post is an unknown number greater than zero.
The number of people who will, months or years from now, come back to this post and think, that freaken Dan Larimer is a genius, for knowing that this closed source, anonymously run ponzi scheme[/b] will break down, and investors will lose money.
I don't think it is quite right to call it "anonymously run" There was an interview with a dev, Ben Rossi on Arthur Falls' broadcast:
We Look at Nubits, the value controlled digital currency that has emerged from the Peercoin/Peershares team.
https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/beyond-bitcoin-24-the-second-to-last-a-nu-approach
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"Even if the NuBit custodians have the best of intentions, we know from their trading volume that they keep a large quantity of BTC on the exchanges. Therefore, we know they have lost 50% of their capital held as BTC.*** If an exchange were to be hacked or compromised then the NuBit custodians would lose a large amount of their capital making them instantly insolvent and unable to peg NuBits to USD.
We can conclude from this that in a declining crypto-currency bear market that the NuBits custodians must be practicing fractional reserves and are therefore insolvent."
**After this BTC free fall the losses must be much more than 50%
http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/13/NuBits-is-a-Ponzi-Scheme/
great photo BM :)
(http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/media/good-intentions.jpg)
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I must admit that drives me crazy !!!
http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/nushares/#charts
we should raise like that!!!
PS we have all the fundamentals+it's the perfect timing for bitAssets... but we follow the trend.... obviously we are making something wrong! Hope I am wrong and we see our price pumping the next days. :)
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NuShares up 50% over the last 24 hours ....
NuBits being bought like crazy as shelter?
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NuShares up 50% over the last 24 hours ....
NuBits being bought like crazy as shelter?
NuShares price is skewed by Excoin; for whatever reason they're reporting a price of $ 0.028013 on low volume. BTER and CCEDK still show the price at just over a penny.
http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/nushares/#markets
...but even so, they are holding their own fairly well. Probably because they're practically the only coin showing green. That alone will probably cause people to buy it as shelter...which will continue to up the price. Nice little self-reinforcing system going on.
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NuShares up 50% over the last 24 hours ....
NuBits being bought like crazy as shelter?
... i suggest this would be us if we had a finished, easy to use & understand interface. I think we have a superior product, we just need to get it over the finish line (and we are). Its got to be finished and easy to use for the average person to adopt it.
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An opportunity to get BitUSD heard https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=924540.0
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I must admit that drives me crazy !!!
http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/nushares/#charts
we should raise like that!!!
PS we have all the fundamentals+it's the perfect timing for bitAssets... but we follow the trend.... obviously we are making something wrong! Hope I am wrong and we see our price pumping the next days. :)
They are stealing our food ... or whatever is left of it :D
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I must admit that drives me crazy !!!
http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/nushares/#charts
we should raise like that!!!
PS we have all the fundamentals+it's the perfect timing for bitAssets... but we follow the trend.... obviously we are making something wrong! Hope I am wrong and we see our price pumping the next days. :)
They are stealing our food ... or whatever is left of it :D
We need a bit more volume on bter, even if it's artificially generated by delegates at a small loss. Obviously nothing like NuBits but just a little something to grease the wheels and get the car going.
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As a new comer in the Bitshares community, here is my point of view: it looks desperate and unprofessional to partake in doing mudslinging on competitors. Bitcoin core dev team isn't doing that. RIpple Labs isn't doing that even to Stellar in spite of the fact Stellar ripped off Ripple's code and keeps pulling their leg and badmouthing them. Mudslinging competitors looks lame and unconfident. I don't think Bitshares needs to do that to prevail.
Now I agree about the fact NuBit is a train wreck waiting to happen. But as far as we can tell they still have options and are not yet on the verge of blowing up. Maybe it would have been more politically correct to warn about the excessive leverage and the risk of blow up rather than downright calling them a ponzi scheme.
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As a new comer in the Bitshares community, here is my point of view: it looks desperate and unprofessional to partake in doing mudslinging on competitors. Bitcoin core dev team isn't doing that. RIpple Labs isn't doing that even to Stellar in spite of the fact Stellar ripped off Ripple's code and keeps pulling their leg and badmouthing them. Mudslinging competitors looks lame and unconfident. I don't think Bitshares needs to do that to prevail.
make sense but on the other hand think about investors that probably avoided to get exposed to such a risk and probably will be thankful to read such an analysis because they saw a title like that ...
Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 997D
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The amazing thing is that Nubits has become a "flight to safety" and thus this 20% plunge that makes them less solvent is ignored as people jump out of the frying pan and into the fire.
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http://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/2sf3vp/introduction_to_nubits_video_from_wwwnubitscom/
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The amazing thing is that Nubits has become a "flight to safety" and thus this 20% plunge that makes them less solvent is ignored as people jump out of the frying pan and into the fire.
People go to what they know.. or what is visible. Need to raise the profile of BitShares, in Bitcointalk; reddit; and other places I don't know. /r/peercoin has x4 subscribers that /r/bitshares does.
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I think you could have explained it fairly (as you do) without using the Ponzi label (which is unnecessarily sensationalist). To me, that implies fraud beyond the design of NuBots. It imputes some dishonest intentions. I'd prefer to believe that the NuBots people are honest, even if it's a flawed design that relies on IOUs. Aside from that criticism, the article is well-written.
I agree, I don't think it is wise or very classy to call out our competitors in that manner. First rule... never call your competitors by name....or sling mud directly. Its not good for PR. I would pull this post and rewrite.
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I think you could have explained it fairly (as you do) without using the Ponzi label (which is unnecessarily sensationalist). To me, that implies fraud beyond the design of NuBots. It imputes some dishonest intentions. I'd prefer to believe that the NuBots people are honest, even if it's a flawed design that relies on IOUs. Aside from that criticism, the article is well-written.
I agree, I don't think it is wise or very classy to call out our competitors in that manner. First rule... never call your competitors by name....or sling mud directly. Its not good for PR. I would pull this post and rewrite.
http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/14/A-New-Perspective-on-NuBits/
Not going to pull a post... but will give them a fair shake.
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I think you could have explained it fairly (as you do) without using the Ponzi label (which is unnecessarily sensationalist). To me, that implies fraud beyond the design of NuBots. It imputes some dishonest intentions. I'd prefer to believe that the NuBots people are honest, even if it's a flawed design that relies on IOUs. Aside from that criticism, the article is well-written.
I agree, I don't think it is wise or very classy to call out our competitors in that manner. First rule... never call your competitors by name....or sling mud directly. Its not good for PR. I would pull this post and rewrite.
+5% +5%
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I think you could have explained it fairly (as you do) without using the Ponzi label (which is unnecessarily sensationalist). To me, that implies fraud beyond the design of NuBots. It imputes some dishonest intentions. I'd prefer to believe that the NuBots people are honest, even if it's a flawed design that relies on IOUs. Aside from that criticism, the article is well-written.
I agree, I don't think it is wise or very classy to call out our competitors in that manner. First rule... never call your competitors by name....or sling mud directly. Its not good for PR. I would pull this post and rewrite.
http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/14/A-New-Perspective-on-NuBits/
Not going to pull a post... but will give them a fair shake.
Thats a start BM, but the real point is to always stay above the fray. Not naming your competitors (EVER). Using a opening like "Crypo exchanges are begining to received recognition, but not all of the projects in the space are economically sound.." <--- you know this stuff better than I , but you get my idea. ..... Then as you detail your points in your post the finger will begin to point to the guilty party, your target! Do this WITHOUT MENTIONING THERE NAME ; )
I still maintain that I would delete both posts and re-write. Just MHO.
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Are we intentionally looking for reasons to push people away from us? I just don't understand the approach. Whether true or not, we look desperate and causes people like Toast to apologize in the NuBits forum. Mixed messages cause investors to look for the door.
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Agreed, the best marketing practises is looking at competitors, learning where they go wrong but still never comment on it. it's only bad to comment on others faults makes you look weak. (not saying this is the case of nubits)
that being said if you are legitimately worried about the intent then the post is a welcome warning to this community and others.
these days all too much legitimate concerns get discarded as fud so I am all for taking a stand here and there, more pressure on developers are a step in the right direction for raising the standard of the industry. also usually if the developers are legit they will step up to the plate and prove that, most people screaming fud over legitimate concerns are deep down worried the developers arent able
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Are we intentionally looking for reasons to push people away from us? I just don't understand the approach. Whether true or not, we look desperate and causes people like Toast to apologize in the NuBits forum. Mixed messages cause investors to look for the door.
Calling a spade a spade is not necessarily a bad thing.
We do this all the time with the current Federal Reserve system so why shouldn't we warn newbies and interested individuals of potentially dangerous investments? Admittedly this is not a great strategy for short term adoption, but in the long term when these points are proven true the bitshares community will be able to say "guess what we said on this day--if you would have listened, you would not be hurt."
I actually posted this in the cryptocurrency collector's club and got into a debate over it. There were 3 people who asked how they could buy bitshares...
We should NEVER be afraid to tell the truth--especially in times when it is not popular. Once we start walking the path of "political correctness" we start walking away from the philosophy of truly changing the current paradigm. I think the trick is having an appropriate mix of Positive and Negative reviews/posts...
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Nubits have a good trade volume and hit 18870 BTC today (http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/volume/24-hour/#BTC). I don't see BitUSD trade volumes reach 200 BTC so far. As a matter of fact, NBT liquidity is better than BitUSD currently, LOL. Let's see what will happen in future.
We can't say the real truth currently.
Customer will say which one is better, right?
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Nubits have a good trade volume and hit 18870 BTC yesterday. I don't see BitUSD trade volumes reach 200 BTC so far. As a matter of fact, NBT liquidity is better than BitUSD currently, LOL. Let's see what will happen in future.
We can't say the real truth currently.
Customer will say which one is better, right?
This volume is not generate by real demand of customers , rather than those custodian who holds big funds to conduct high risk operations to earn profit while exposing the Nubits holders the risk of a bankruptcy .
How is that organic growth ?
How is any of that more stable than any other investment bank out there ?
Bragging about this kind of volume is like a bank manager brag about how he take the depositors's money to gamble at Vagas and earn a big reward to give the bank's shareholders .
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Nubits have a good trade volume and hit 18870 BTC today (http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/volume/24-hour/#BTC). I don't see BitUSD trade volumes reach 200 BTC so far. As a matter of fact, NBT liquidity is better than BitUSD currently, LOL. Let's see what will happen in future.
We can't say the real truth currently.
Customer will say which one is better, right?
You mean "NuBots", right? Sure they have volume. So does my vacuum cleaner.
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Nubits have a good trade volume and hit 18870 BTC yesterday. I don't see BitUSD trade volumes reach 200 BTC so far. As a matter of fact, NBT liquidity is better than BitUSD currently, LOL. Let's see what will happen in future.
We can't say the real truth currently.
Customer will say which one is better, right?
This volume is not generate by real demand of customers , rather than those custodian who holds big funds to conduct high risk operations to earn profit while exposing the Nubits holders the risk of a bankruptcy .
How is that organic growth ?
How is any of that more stable than any other investment bank out there ?
Bragging about this kind of volume is like a bank manager brag about how he take the depositors's money to gamble at Vagas and earn a big reward to give the bank's shareholders .
Great. Customers are happy to get profit from gambling. ;D
-
Nubits have a good trade volume and hit 18870 BTC yesterday. I don't see BitUSD trade volumes reach 200 BTC so far. As a matter of fact, NBT liquidity is better than BitUSD currently, LOL. Let's see what will happen in future.
We can't say the real truth currently.
Customer will say which one is better, right?
This volume is not generate by real demand of customers , rather than those custodian who holds big funds to conduct high risk operations to earn profit while exposing the Nubits holders the risk of a bankruptcy .
How is that organic growth ?
How is any of that more stable than any other investment bank out there ?
Bragging about this kind of volume is like a bank manager brag about how he take the depositors's money to gamble at Vagas and earn a big reward to give the bank's shareholders .
Great. Customers are happy to get profit from gambling. ;D
The customer in this equation is the poor guys who bought NBT an get no profit buy only risks .
The only profiting party here is NSR holder .
And the NSR holder is selling the "stable money" slogan to trick the poor customers to buy NBT in order to provide money for them to gamble .
-
Nubits have a good trade volume and hit 18870 BTC yesterday. I don't see BitUSD trade volumes reach 200 BTC so far. As a matter of fact, NBT liquidity is better than BitUSD currently, LOL. Let's see what will happen in future.
We can't say the real truth currently.
Customer will say which one is better, right?
This volume is not generate by real demand of customers , rather than those custodian who holds big funds to conduct high risk operations to earn profit while exposing the Nubits holders the risk of a bankruptcy .
How is that organic growth ?
How is any of that more stable than any other investment bank out there ?
Bragging about this kind of volume is like a bank manager brag about how he take the depositors's money to gamble at Vagas and earn a big reward to give the bank's shareholders .
Great. Customers are happy to get profit from gambling. ;D
The customer in this equation is the poor guys who bought NBT an get no profit buy only risks .
The only profiting party here is NSR holder .
And the NSR holder is selling the "stable money" slogan to trick the poor customers to buy NBT in order to provide money for them to gamble .
The customers can also be NSR holders and they do not need to buy NBT. The customers can also hold NSR and vote for NBT.
NBT is a good and stable money for customers to reduce the risk of Bitcoins fluctuation. When BTC rising, sell NBT for BTC and when BTC falling sell BTC for NBT. NBT is a good money for interim keeping value. Customers do not need to hold NBT always. They can use NBT like use USD, but more convenient than USD. NBT is stable, instant and convenient.
Bitcoin is doing for digital gold while Nubits is doing for money. ;D
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Nubits have a good trade volume and hit 18870 BTC yesterday. I don't see BitUSD trade volumes reach 200 BTC so far. As a matter of fact, NBT liquidity is better than BitUSD currently, LOL. Let's see what will happen in future.
We can't say the real truth currently.
Customer will say which one is better, right?
This volume is not generate by real demand of customers , rather than those custodian who holds big funds to conduct high risk operations to earn profit while exposing the Nubits holders the risk of a bankruptcy .
How is that organic growth ?
How is any of that more stable than any other investment bank out there ?
Bragging about this kind of volume is like a bank manager brag about how he take the depositors's money to gamble at Vagas and earn a big reward to give the bank's shareholders .
Great. Customers are happy to get profit from gambling. ;D
The customer in this equation is the poor guys who bought NBT an get no profit buy only risks .
The only profiting party here is NSR holder .
And the NSR holder is selling the "stable money" slogan to trick the poor customers to buy NBT in order to provide money for them to gamble .
The customers can also be NSR holders and they do not need to buy NBT. The customers can also hold NSR and vote for NBT.
NBT is a good and stable money for customers to reduce the risk of Bitcoins fluctuation. When BTC rising, sell NBT for BTC and when BTC falling sell BTC for NBT. NBT is a good money for interim keeping value. Customers do not need to hold NBT always. They can use NBT like use USD, but more convenient than USD. NBT is stable, instant and convenient.
Bitcoin is doing for digital gold while Nubits is doing for money. ;D
Nubits is stable , as long as those gambles behind it willing to back it up and don't lose big funds in the gambling process , is that correct ?
Call this stable is like calling heavy drinking "harmless" just because you can ease your mood with booze and hasn't get liver cancer yet .
-
Nubits have a good trade volume and hit 18870 BTC yesterday. I don't see BitUSD trade volumes reach 200 BTC so far. As a matter of fact, NBT liquidity is better than BitUSD currently, LOL. Let's see what will happen in future.
We can't say the real truth currently.
Customer will say which one is better, right?
This volume is not generate by real demand of customers , rather than those custodian who holds big funds to conduct high risk operations to earn profit while exposing the Nubits holders the risk of a bankruptcy .
How is that organic growth ?
How is any of that more stable than any other investment bank out there ?
Bragging about this kind of volume is like a bank manager brag about how he take the depositors's money to gamble at Vagas and earn a big reward to give the bank's shareholders .
Great. Customers are happy to get profit from gambling. ;D
The customer in this equation is the poor guys who bought NBT an get no profit buy only risks .
The only profiting party here is NSR holder .
And the NSR holder is selling the "stable money" slogan to trick the poor customers to buy NBT in order to provide money for them to gamble .
The customers can also be NSR holders and they do not need to buy NBT. The customers can also hold NSR and vote for NBT.
NBT is a good and stable money for customers to reduce the risk of Bitcoins fluctuation. When BTC rising, sell NBT for BTC and when BTC falling sell BTC for NBT. NBT is a good money for interim keeping value. Customers do not need to hold NBT always. They can use NBT like use USD, but more convenient than USD. NBT is stable, instant and convenient.
Bitcoin is doing for digital gold while Nubits is doing for money. ;D
Nubits is stable , as long as those gambles behind it willing to back it up and don't lose big funds in the gambling process , is that correct ?
Call this stable is like calling heavy drinking "harmless" just because you can ease your mood with booze and hasn't get liver cancer yet .
BM somehow changed his mind about Nu. He has a good sense about Nu now. The more you learn, the more truth you will know.
http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/14/A-New-Perspective-on-NuBits/
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Nubits have a good trade volume and hit 18870 BTC yesterday. I don't see BitUSD trade volumes reach 200 BTC so far. As a matter of fact, NBT liquidity is better than BitUSD currently, LOL. Let's see what will happen in future.
We can't say the real truth currently.
Customer will say which one is better, right?
This volume is not generate by real demand of customers , rather than those custodian who holds big funds to conduct high risk operations to earn profit while exposing the Nubits holders the risk of a bankruptcy .
How is that organic growth ?
How is any of that more stable than any other investment bank out there ?
Bragging about this kind of volume is like a bank manager brag about how he take the depositors's money to gamble at Vagas and earn a big reward to give the bank's shareholders .
Great. Customers are happy to get profit from gambling. ;D
The customer in this equation is the poor guys who bought NBT an get no profit buy only risks .
The only profiting party here is NSR holder .
And the NSR holder is selling the "stable money" slogan to trick the poor customers to buy NBT in order to provide money for them to gamble .
The customers can also be NSR holders and they do not need to buy NBT. The customers can also hold NSR and vote for NBT.
NBT is a good and stable money for customers to reduce the risk of Bitcoins fluctuation. When BTC rising, sell NBT for BTC and when BTC falling sell BTC for NBT. NBT is a good money for interim keeping value. Customers do not need to hold NBT always. They can use NBT like use USD, but more convenient than USD. NBT is stable, instant and convenient.
Bitcoin is doing for digital gold while Nubits is doing for money. ;D
Nubits is stable , as long as those gambles behind it willing to back it up and don't lose big funds in the gambling process , is that correct ?
Call this stable is like calling heavy drinking "harmless" just because you can ease your mood with booze and hasn't get liver cancer yet .
BM somehow changed his mind about Nu. He has a good sense about Nu now. The more you learn, the more truth you will know.
http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/14/A-New-Perspective-on-NuBits/
Can you read English ?
Is that what you're getting at , "good sense" ?
Read again
-
Nubits have a good trade volume and hit 18870 BTC yesterday. I don't see BitUSD trade volumes reach 200 BTC so far. As a matter of fact, NBT liquidity is better than BitUSD currently, LOL. Let's see what will happen in future.
We can't say the real truth currently.
Customer will say which one is better, right?
This volume is not generate by real demand of customers , rather than those custodian who holds big funds to conduct high risk operations to earn profit while exposing the Nubits holders the risk of a bankruptcy .
How is that organic growth ?
How is any of that more stable than any other investment bank out there ?
Bragging about this kind of volume is like a bank manager brag about how he take the depositors's money to gamble at Vagas and earn a big reward to give the bank's shareholders .
Great. Customers are happy to get profit from gambling. ;D
The customer in this equation is the poor guys who bought NBT an get no profit buy only risks .
The only profiting party here is NSR holder .
And the NSR holder is selling the "stable money" slogan to trick the poor customers to buy NBT in order to provide money for them to gamble .
The customers can also be NSR holders and they do not need to buy NBT. The customers can also hold NSR and vote for NBT.
NBT is a good and stable money for customers to reduce the risk of Bitcoins fluctuation. When BTC rising, sell NBT for BTC and when BTC falling sell BTC for NBT. NBT is a good money for interim keeping value. Customers do not need to hold NBT always. They can use NBT like use USD, but more convenient than USD. NBT is stable, instant and convenient.
Bitcoin is doing for digital gold while Nubits is doing for money. ;D
Nubits is stable , as long as those gambles behind it willing to back it up and don't lose big funds in the gambling process , is that correct ?
Call this stable is like calling heavy drinking "harmless" just because you can ease your mood with booze and hasn't get liver cancer yet .
BM somehow changed his mind about Nu. He has a good sense about Nu now. The more you learn, the more truth you will know.
http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/14/A-New-Perspective-on-NuBits/
Can you read English ?
Is that what you're getting at , "good sense" ?
Read again
At least not using Ponzi Scheme. This is a good progress. ;D
-
Nubits have a good trade volume and hit 18870 BTC yesterday. I don't see BitUSD trade volumes reach 200 BTC so far. As a matter of fact, NBT liquidity is better than BitUSD currently, LOL. Let's see what will happen in future.
We can't say the real truth currently.
Customer will say which one is better, right?
This volume is not generate by real demand of customers , rather than those custodian who holds big funds to conduct high risk operations to earn profit while exposing the Nubits holders the risk of a bankruptcy .
How is that organic growth ?
How is any of that more stable than any other investment bank out there ?
Bragging about this kind of volume is like a bank manager brag about how he take the depositors's money to gamble at Vagas and earn a big reward to give the bank's shareholders .
Great. Customers are happy to get profit from gambling. ;D
The customer in this equation is the poor guys who bought NBT an get no profit buy only risks .
The only profiting party here is NSR holder .
And the NSR holder is selling the "stable money" slogan to trick the poor customers to buy NBT in order to provide money for them to gamble .
The customers can also be NSR holders and they do not need to buy NBT. The customers can also hold NSR and vote for NBT.
NBT is a good and stable money for customers to reduce the risk of Bitcoins fluctuation. When BTC rising, sell NBT for BTC and when BTC falling sell BTC for NBT. NBT is a good money for interim keeping value. Customers do not need to hold NBT always. They can use NBT like use USD, but more convenient than USD. NBT is stable, instant and convenient.
Bitcoin is doing for digital gold while Nubits is doing for money. ;D
Nubits is stable , as long as those gambles behind it willing to back it up and don't lose big funds in the gambling process , is that correct ?
Call this stable is like calling heavy drinking "harmless" just because you can ease your mood with booze and hasn't get liver cancer yet .
BM somehow changed his mind about Nu. He has a good sense about Nu now. The more you learn, the more truth you will know.
http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/14/A-New-Perspective-on-NuBits/
Can you read English ?
Is that what you're getting at , "good sense" ?
Read again
At least not using Ponzi Scheme. This is a good progress. ;D
Please improve your reading and understanding skills before you discuss further . :P
-
Nubits have a good trade volume and hit 18870 BTC yesterday. I don't see BitUSD trade volumes reach 200 BTC so far. As a matter of fact, NBT liquidity is better than BitUSD currently, LOL. Let's see what will happen in future.
We can't say the real truth currently.
Customer will say which one is better, right?
This volume is not generate by real demand of customers , rather than those custodian who holds big funds to conduct high risk operations to earn profit while exposing the Nubits holders the risk of a bankruptcy .
How is that organic growth ?
How is any of that more stable than any other investment bank out there ?
Bragging about this kind of volume is like a bank manager brag about how he take the depositors's money to gamble at Vagas and earn a big reward to give the bank's shareholders .
Great. Customers are happy to get profit from gambling. ;D
The customer in this equation is the poor guys who bought NBT an get no profit buy only risks .
The only profiting party here is NSR holder .
And the NSR holder is selling the "stable money" slogan to trick the poor customers to buy NBT in order to provide money for them to gamble .
The customers can also be NSR holders and they do not need to buy NBT. The customers can also hold NSR and vote for NBT.
NBT is a good and stable money for customers to reduce the risk of Bitcoins fluctuation. When BTC rising, sell NBT for BTC and when BTC falling sell BTC for NBT. NBT is a good money for interim keeping value. Customers do not need to hold NBT always. They can use NBT like use USD, but more convenient than USD. NBT is stable, instant and convenient.
Bitcoin is doing for digital gold while Nubits is doing for money. ;D
Nubits is stable , as long as those gambles behind it willing to back it up and don't lose big funds in the gambling process , is that correct ?
Call this stable is like calling heavy drinking "harmless" just because you can ease your mood with booze and hasn't get liver cancer yet .
BM somehow changed his mind about Nu. He has a good sense about Nu now. The more you learn, the more truth you will know.
http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/14/A-New-Perspective-on-NuBits/
Can you read English ?
Is that what you're getting at , "good sense" ?
Read again
At least not using Ponzi Scheme. This is a good progress. ;D
Please improve your reading and understanding skills before you discuss further . :P
If you understand differently, you can translate here. I can read Chinese. ;D
-
This reddit post is exactly what I am talking about when I said this would hurt us:
http://www.reddit.com/r/BitShares/comments/2sbewk/im_done_with_bitshares/
(I didnt write it).
The number of people who own NuBits who will be convinced to sell them by bytemaster's attack on it is exactly zero.
The number of people who are interested in or own Bitshares, who will be convinced to sell them and walk away from Bitshares because of this post is an unknown number greater than zero.
Lets not be the troll who tells other people the thing they bought is going to go down. Lets instead tell them about the features of our product, why they need it, and why it is valuable.
This is yet another episode in the PR disaster that has been Bitshares existence. If Bitshares fails, these are the reasons why it will fail.
Stop bashing other crypto projects. Just stop. It does nothing but hurt their opinion of us.
Just be positive about Bitshares.
+5% I support BM all the way! But I wish there was some openness towards and coordination with those that are specialized in PR, marketing etc. in order to make BitShares a success.
One thing I wanted to ad regarding the debate about intention vs. effect driven action (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=13065.msg172766#msg172766): The vast majority of people will form an opinion about someone's intentions not based on direct observation but based on how others present that person. That is especially true for the internet / digital age where people do not talk to each other face to face. One example is this blog post. For an outsider it is impossible to see whether you bytemaster have the intention to warn people or whether you have the intention to destroy a competitor. Here is a quote from reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/BitShares/comments/2sbewk/im_done_with_bitshares/): "It’s because the post was a nasty attempt to destroy a rival brand that has outperformed BitShares in many ways."
Bytemaster, please do not stop your marketing Bitshares! Your vision is unmet! But please utilize the people around you to make all your efforts as effectful as they can be.
-
This reddit post is exactly what I am talking about when I said this would hurt us:
http://www.reddit.com/r/BitShares/comments/2sbewk/im_done_with_bitshares/
(I didnt write it).
The number of people who own NuBits who will be convinced to sell them by bytemaster's attack on it is exactly zero.
The number of people who are interested in or own Bitshares, who will be convinced to sell them and walk away from Bitshares because of this post is an unknown number greater than zero.
Lets not be the troll who tells other people the thing they bought is going to go down. Lets instead tell them about the features of our product, why they need it, and why it is valuable.
This is yet another episode in the PR disaster that has been Bitshares existence. If Bitshares fails, these are the reasons why it will fail.
Stop bashing other crypto projects. Just stop. It does nothing but hurt their opinion of us.
Just be positive about Bitshares.
+5% I support BM all the way! But I wish there was some openness towards and coordination with those that are specialized in PR, marketing etc. in order to make BitShares a success.
One thing I wanted to ad regarding the debate about intention vs. effect driven action (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=13065.msg172766#msg172766): The vast majority of people will form an opinion about someone's intentions not based on direct observation but based on how others present that person. That is especially true for the internet / digital age where people do not talk to each other face to face. One example is this blog post. For an outsider it is impossible to see whether you bytemaster have the intention to warn people or whether you have the intention to destroy a competitor. Here is a quote from reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/BitShares/comments/2sbewk/im_done_with_bitshares/): "It’s because the post was a nasty attempt to destroy a rival brand that has outperformed BitShares in many ways."
Bytemaster, please do not stop your marketing Bitshares! Your vision is unmet! But please utilize the people around you to make all your efforts as effectful as they can be.
Thank you for sharing that. +5%
-
Nubits have a good trade volume and hit 18870 BTC yesterday. I don't see BitUSD trade volumes reach 200 BTC so far. As a matter of fact, NBT liquidity is better than BitUSD currently, LOL. Let's see what will happen in future.
We can't say the real truth currently.
Customer will say which one is better, right?
This volume is not generate by real demand of customers , rather than those custodian who holds big funds to conduct high risk operations to earn profit while exposing the Nubits holders the risk of a bankruptcy .
How is that organic growth ?
How is any of that more stable than any other investment bank out there ?
Bragging about this kind of volume is like a bank manager brag about how he take the depositors's money to gamble at Vagas and earn a big reward to give the bank's shareholders .
Great. Customers are happy to get profit from gambling. ;D
The customer in this equation is the poor guys who bought NBT an get no profit buy only risks .
The only profiting party here is NSR holder .
And the NSR holder is selling the "stable money" slogan to trick the poor customers to buy NBT in order to provide money for them to gamble .
The customers can also be NSR holders and they do not need to buy NBT. The customers can also hold NSR and vote for NBT.
NBT is a good and stable money for customers to reduce the risk of Bitcoins fluctuation. When BTC rising, sell NBT for BTC and when BTC falling sell BTC for NBT. NBT is a good money for interim keeping value. Customers do not need to hold NBT always. They can use NBT like use USD, but more convenient than USD. NBT is stable, instant and convenient.
Bitcoin is doing for digital gold while Nubits is doing for money. ;D
Nubits is stable , as long as those gambles behind it willing to back it up and don't lose big funds in the gambling process , is that correct ?
Call this stable is like calling heavy drinking "harmless" just because you can ease your mood with booze and hasn't get liver cancer yet .
BM somehow changed his mind about Nu. He has a good sense about Nu now. The more you learn, the more truth you will know.
http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/14/A-New-Perspective-on-NuBits/
Can you read English ?
Is that what you're getting at , "good sense" ?
Read again
At least not using Ponzi Scheme. This is a good progress. ;D
Please improve your reading and understanding skills before you discuss further . :P
If you understand differently, you can translate here. I can read Chinese. ;D
https://discuss.nubits.com/t/apologies-from-a-bitshares-guy/1146
toast is a team member from Bitshares. Anyway, they have better sense about Nu, not just good.
I think the Nu community should accept the apology and focus more on technical things. :D
-
The customers ( exchages) are choosing the right thing, may be more customers will choose Nu in future.
https://discuss.nubits.com/t/introducing-bitcoin-co-id-nubits-bitcoin-with-0-trading-fee/1140
Hi Nubits Community
I am Oscar Darmawan, CEO of Bitcoin.co.id. We are interesting with the concept of Nubits that pegged into US Dollar. In Indonesia, many people like to buy US Dollar as store value. Thats why I think Nubits has potential to grow and adopt well in Indonesia especially it because our local currency (rupiah) has more than 5% inflation rate.
Our exchange currently has more than 42,000 verified members with daily trading around 200-400 BTC.
Starting few minutes ago, we just integrate NBT/IDR into our exchange with 0% trading fee (forever) which can be accessed in here: https://vip.bitcoin.co.id/nbtbtc
I hope I can become part of Nubits community and help to let people know how AWESOME Nubits is !
Cheers !!
-
The customers ( exchages) are choosing the right thing, may be more customers will choose Nu in future.
https://discuss.nubits.com/t/introducing-bitcoin-co-id-nubits-bitcoin-with-0-trading-fee/1140
Hi Nubits Community
I am Oscar Darmawan, CEO of Bitcoin.co.id. We are interesting with the concept of Nubits that pegged into US Dollar. In Indonesia, many people like to buy US Dollar as store value. Thats why I think Nubits has potential to grow and adopt well in Indonesia especially it because our local currency (rupiah) has more than 5% inflation rate.
Our exchange currently has more than 42,000 verified members with daily trading around 200-400 BTC.
Starting few minutes ago, we just integrate NBT/IDR into our exchange with 0% trading fee (forever) which can be accessed in here: https://vip.bitcoin.co.id/nbtbtc
I hope I can become part of Nubits community and help to let people know how AWESOME Nubits is !
Cheers !!
Exchanges don't much care about design or technology of crypto. They just decide based on volume which gives them profit.
-
The customers ( exchages) are choosing the right thing, may be more customers will choose Nu in future.
https://discuss.nubits.com/t/introducing-bitcoin-co-id-nubits-bitcoin-with-0-trading-fee/1140
Hi Nubits Community
I am Oscar Darmawan, CEO of Bitcoin.co.id. We are interesting with the concept of Nubits that pegged into US Dollar. In Indonesia, many people like to buy US Dollar as store value. Thats why I think Nubits has potential to grow and adopt well in Indonesia especially it because our local currency (rupiah) has more than 5% inflation rate.
Our exchange currently has more than 42,000 verified members with daily trading around 200-400 BTC.
Starting few minutes ago, we just integrate NBT/IDR into our exchange with 0% trading fee (forever) which can be accessed in here: https://vip.bitcoin.co.id/nbtbtc
I hope I can become part of Nubits community and help to let people know how AWESOME Nubits is !
Cheers !!
Cheers ！！！！ 0% trading fee (forever) ！！！
Feel free to create any 0 cost volume you want from now on . +5% +5% +5%
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Why are all links about bytemaster's opinion about nubit's erased?
http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/13/NuBits-is-a-Ponzi-Scheme/
http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/14/A-New-Perspective-on-NuBits/
I wanted to give some answers on ethereum reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/3jlbak/what_do_you_think_of_dollarpegged_crypto_currency/
-
Why are all links about bytemaster's opinion about nubit's erased?
http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/13/NuBits-is-a-Ponzi-Scheme/
http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/14/A-New-Perspective-on-NuBits/
I wanted to give some answers on ethereum reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/3jlbak/what_do_you_think_of_dollarpegged_crypto_currency/
His blog was moved
http://bytemaster.github.io/