Author Topic: NuBits is structured like a Ponzi Scheme [BLOG POST]  (Read 9848 times)

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lzr1900

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Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2015, 10:34:45 pm »
sb

Offline thisisausername

Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2015, 11:28:00 pm »
From reddit, "Because bytemaster ignored all the recent stuff nubits has been working on. It sucks because it makes it clear he's attacking them without being aware of what's going on."

This.  It makes the critique come off as disingenuous.  Same with the NXT post that didn't mention that some of the addresses were special (leased forging, et cetera).

Both posts would've been fine if they actually were up to date with what the communities are doing to respond to the problems mentioned (hint: their responses are probably still inadequate) but attacking these strawman versions of our competitors just looks really bad and desperate.
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Offline Ander

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Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2015, 11:33:26 pm »
From reddit, "Because bytemaster ignored all the recent stuff nubits has been working on. It sucks because it makes it clear he's attacking them without being aware of what's going on."

I agree.  It felt to me like an attack on a straw man version of NuBits which existed back in september, but which has since been improved upon.  For example, the addition of being able to burn NuBits supply in order to prevent the hyperinflationary collapse which is why Bytemaster called it a ponzi back in september.

It really makes it look like we are stuck in the past, bashing the previous version of a competitor which has been doing better than us.
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Offline oco101

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Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #63 on: January 13, 2015, 11:38:07 pm »
From reddit, "Because bytemaster ignored all the recent stuff nubits has been working on. It sucks because it makes it clear he's attacking them without being aware of what's going on."

I agree.  It felt to me like an attack on a straw man version of NuBits which existed back in september, but which has since been improved upon. For example, the addition of being able to burn NuBits supply in order to prevent the hyperinflationary collapse which is why Bytemaster called it a ponzi back in september.

It really makes it look like we are stuck in the past, bashing the previous version of a competitor which has been doing better than us.
Hmm are this implemented or in the pipeline ?

Offline speedy

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Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #64 on: January 13, 2015, 11:43:41 pm »
Does it really matter if they attempt to burn Nubits? How ever many they burn, you still dont know if they have enough collateral to cover all Nubits that have been issued, because the custodians are not transparent.

Its just like when MtGox was hacked. People hoped that they could keep running the exchange on a fractional reserve basis long enough to earn enough transaction fees to earn back the collateral. Or you can move on and find a better way to exchange.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2015, 11:47:15 pm by speedy »

Offline oco101

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Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #65 on: January 13, 2015, 11:44:06 pm »
From reddit, "Because bytemaster ignored all the recent stuff nubits has been working on. It sucks because it makes it clear he's attacking them without being aware of what's going on."

This.  It makes the critique come off as disingenuous.  Same with the NXT post that didn't mention that some of the addresses were special (leased forging, et cetera).

Both posts would've been fine if they actually were up to date with what the communities are doing to respond to the problems mentioned (hint: their responses are probably still inadequate) but attacking these strawman versions of our competitors just looks really bad and desperate.

I thing he addressed this here : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=913075.msg10141909#msg10141909

Offline Ander

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Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #66 on: January 13, 2015, 11:48:22 pm »
This reddit post is exactly what I am talking about when I said this would hurt us:

http://www.reddit.com/r/BitShares/comments/2sbewk/im_done_with_bitshares/

(I didnt write it).

The number of people who own NuBits who will be convinced to sell them by bytemaster's attack on it is exactly zero. 

The number of people who are interested in or own Bitshares, who will be convinced to sell them and walk away from Bitshares because of this post is an unknown number greater than zero. 


Lets not be the troll who tells other people the thing they bought is going to go down.  Lets instead tell them about the features of our product, why they need it, and why it is valuable.


This is yet another episode in the PR disaster that has been Bitshares existence.  If Bitshares fails, these are the reasons why it will fail. 

Stop bashing other crypto projects.  Just stop.  It does nothing but hurt their opinion of us.

Just be positive about Bitshares. 
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Offline cass

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Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #67 on: January 13, 2015, 11:56:25 pm »
This reddit post is exactly what I am talking about when I said this would hurt us:

http://www.reddit.com/r/BitShares/comments/2sbewk/im_done_with_bitshares/

(I didnt write it).

The number of people who own NuBits who will be convinced to sell them by bytemaster's attack on it is exactly zero. 

The number of people who are interested in or own Bitshares, who will be convinced to sell them and walk away from Bitshares because of this post is an unknown number greater than zero. 


Lets not be the troll who tells other people the thing they bought is going to go down.  Lets instead tell them about the features of our product, why they need it, and why it is valuable.


This is yet another episode in the PR disaster that has been Bitshares existence.  If Bitshares fails, these are the reasons why it will fail. 

Stop bashing other crypto projects.  Just stop.  It does nothing but hurt their opinion of us.

Just be positive about Bitshares.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=13237.msg173466#msg173466
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zerosum

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Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #68 on: January 14, 2015, 12:58:55 am »
From reddit, "Because bytemaster ignored all the recent stuff nubits has been working on. It sucks because it makes it clear he's attacking them without being aware of what's going on."

I agree.  It felt to me like an attack on a straw man version of NuBits which existed back in september, but which has since been improved upon.  For example, the addition of being able to burn NuBits supply in order to prevent the hyperinflationary collapse which is why Bytemaster called it a ponzi back in september.

It really makes it look like we are stuck in the past, bashing the previous version of a competitor which has been doing better than us.

2 disclosures/statements first:

- I have never liked the idea of calling NuBits and have never called NuBits Ponzi myself. Not now, not when they first appeared. That being said I have said it then I will repeat it now - NuBits is a ton of bullshit nonsense! Everybody should be warned of that fact and proceed with extreme caution! Pretty much what BM is saying, but  I'm  considering the authors of the scheme stupid and not intentionally malicious...until we have actual proof.

- BM taking the time to address their project right now is a 'waist'  ;) of time, imo, even without the 'ponzi' part.

With this out of the way...
Ander you are posting for a second time, claiming they will implement some form of ' Newbits burning' in the future...
While I do not believe it is possible to magically add some real market based feature(s) to their system and fix a system that screams 'non-market, air filled balloons, mixed with a tone on other nonsense and paid peg supporters'.  What is their 'burning Newbits' proposal? Link/summary?

Offline bitmarket

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Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #69 on: January 14, 2015, 01:03:55 am »
I am thinking some people are waiting for me to start screaming bloody murder, given I am the most outspoken about BM's mud slinging.

But to be honest I think it is a pretty important public service announcement.

Of course things can always be positioned better. This is certainly no exception. And Given BM's history of missing the mark on positioning it is a shame he didn't reach out to some of the marketers before posting.  this could have been seen as a valuable contribution to the crypto world spun correctly.

Hopefully we can still make it that way.

The fact of the matter is that Nubits is a disaster waiting to happen.  A lot of people are going to lose a lot of money.  It is going to suck for crypto, it is going to suck for bitcoin and it is going to suck bitshares.  Everyone is gong to be a loser.

Allowed to go on, it is exactly the type of disaster that could be big enough to make regulators fuck up the entire crypto eco-system.

I am curios that Nubits have plans to rectify Nubits shortcomings and allow the supply to reduce.  If they manage to pull it off then great and I am happy to listen to that, but contained in the statement is a confession that they launched a product, accepted millions of dollars of investments with a flawed product they hoped to fix one day.

This kind of cowboy bullshit is the kind of stuff that the community needs to end quickly before investors lose too much and regulators hurt everyone.

I would like to do an interview with Dan about this.   I can edit him   :P
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Offline Stan

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Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #70 on: January 14, 2015, 01:27:35 am »
I would like to do an interview with Dan about this.   I can edit him   :P

+1
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 01:30:00 am by Stan »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline oco101

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Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #71 on: January 14, 2015, 02:04:15 am »

Of course things can always be positioned better. This is certainly no exception. And Given BM's history of missing the mark on positioning it is a shame he didn't reach out to some of the marketers before posting.  this could have been seen as a valuable contribution to the crypto world spun correctly.


I agree with this. This is the only thing missing in that blog. As is stands today none of the shortcoming of Nubits are fixed( they are planing to do it I know) . Was this necessary ? I guess it depend on your values and what you have to lose.  Knowing that a lot of people stand to loose money, what would you have done ?  Was that the best way to spell it out ? Definitively not, but to say nothing that would be wrong because if Nubits  are not fixing things quickly(not even sure that this is possible) people will lose money for sure !!!

Bitshares had critics too that's the way it is. So you answer back with proof that whatever is said is wrong. Well there is nothing technically wrong  with that blog !!!
Same goes with NXT vs Bitshares blog



   
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 02:06:16 am by oco101 »

Offline sschechter

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Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #72 on: January 14, 2015, 02:38:03 am »
The number of people who are interested in or own Bitshares, who will be convinced to sell them and walk away from Bitshares because of this post is an unknown number greater than zero. 

The number of people who will, months or years from now, come back to this post and think, that freaken Dan Larimer is a genius, for knowing that this closed source, anonymously run ponzi scheme will break down, and investors will lose money.
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Offline Ander

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Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #73 on: January 14, 2015, 02:40:50 am »
The number of people who are interested in or own Bitshares, who will be convinced to sell them and walk away from Bitshares because of this post is an unknown number greater than zero. 

The number of people who will, months or years from now, come back to this post and think, that freaken Dan Larimer is a genius, for knowing that this closed source, anonymously run ponzi scheme will break down, and investors will lose money.

That is the only way it helps us, and only at that future time.  But we already had a big 'nubits is a ponzi' thread on the forums, we didnt actually need a blog post too, this only doubles up on the amount of people who think bad of us.
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Offline islandking

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Re: NuBits is a Ponzi [BLOG POST]
« Reply #74 on: January 14, 2015, 02:42:25 am »
Another problem with Nubits is that the buy and sell walls are on centralized exchanges. If those exchanges close down or get hacked then Nubits will suffer.
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