BitShares Forum

Main => General Discussion => Topic started by: merivercap on May 08, 2016, 08:40:18 pm

Title: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: merivercap on May 08, 2016, 08:40:18 pm
Discuss moving the Bitsharestalk.org forum over to Steemit (From Steemit post (https://steemit.com/bitshares/@steemrollin/proposal-move-bitsharestalk-to-steemit))

Hey all. As we can all see the Steemit platorm is progressing well and many of us are excited about the great potential. There may have been some disappointment that Bytemaster shifted his focus to Steemit instead of Bitshares, but over time I think more and more in the Bitshares community will discover how the success of Steemit can be a great boon for the Bitshares community. Most people here are from Bitshares anyway so might as well bring everyone else over and work together to make both projects reach its full potential!

Here are some of the top reasons to move:

1. Steemit Is A Great Platform for Forum Discussion.
It’s easy to read, has great UI/UX, has collapsable threads and more. There is already discussion of moving the Bitsharestalk forum (https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,6951.msg290873.html#msg290873) to use new software. I liked Bitsharestalk because of the familiarity, great discussion and memories, but there is a time and place for everything and I think it’s a perfect time to be reborn on the Steemit platform.

2. Synergy
Bytemaster invented and is vested in both Steemit and Bitshares. The success of either will enhance the other. The Bitshares decentralized exchange is a natural bridge/gateway/exchange platform for STEEM and STEEM dollars to trade with all the many other cryptocurrencies out there!

3. Working Together As A Team
First off, it’s far more convenient to use one forum than go back and forth between the two to read the same content. We will be diluting our time, resources and efforts using two forums. Again many of us STEEMers are from Bitshares anyways. Oftentimes independent-minded individuals like many of those in the Bitshares community like to do their own thing and that’s great, but many other times it’s better and necessary to work together as a team. I think this is one of those times.

4. Replacement for Bitshares Worker Proposals
It was extremely difficult funding Bitshares projects with the DAO for a variety of reasons, but Steemit allows Bitshares contributors to be rewarded for a wide range of projects and even just valuable ideas!
Just look at the potential for Bitshares-related projects here:
BlockTrades (https://steemit.com/steem/@blocktrades/-blocktrades-adds-support-for-directly-buyingselling-steem)
SmartcoinPOS (http://bit.ly/275LDga)
BeyondBitcoin Hangouts (https://steemit.com/beyondbitcoin/@officialfuzzy/e153-2016-05-06-fuzzy-friends--peerplays-launch-party-steem-openpos)

…and we’re just getting started! Steemit can be a large part of the funding mechanism we’ve been looking for all along to foster and grow the Bitshares ecosystem!

So what say you Bitshares community?
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: Empirical1.2 on May 08, 2016, 09:15:11 pm
BitShares is a great platform with a great community that is only 5 months away from ending a hugely expensive merger.

Trying to be polite and not criticize it too much, but at this nascent stage I would say Steem probably shouldn't even have a third party project place on this forum.

Good luck to those taking part but please give it a few months as you risk dragging down a great project like BTS unnecessarily if that project ends up failing. (9/10 new businesses do)

I hope this gets moved to random discussion as we don't need a Steem/BTS discussion at this stage and/or give a non share-dropped platform unnecessary exposure.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: onceuponatime on May 08, 2016, 09:46:29 pm
BitShares is a great platform with a great community that is only 5 months away from ending a hugely expensive merger.

Trying to be polite and not criticize it too much, but at this nascent stage I would say Steem probably shouldn't even have a third party project place on this forum.

Good luck to those taking part but please give it a few months as you risk dragging down a great project like BTS unnecessarily if that project ends up failing. (9/10 new businesses do)

I hope this gets moved to random discussion as we don't need a Steem/BTS discussion at this stage and/or give a non share-dropped platform unnecessary exposure.

Haven't you repeatedly said that you sold off all of your non-vesting stake in BitShares long ago? I have come to suspect the motivation behind your comments.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: Empirical1.2 on May 08, 2016, 10:06:19 pm
BitShares is a great platform with a great community that is only 5 months away from ending a hugely expensive merger.

Trying to be polite and not criticize it too much, but at this nascent stage I would say Steem probably shouldn't even have a third party project place on this forum.

Good luck to those taking part but please give it a few months as you risk dragging down a great project like BTS unnecessarily if that project ends up failing. (9/10 new businesses do)

I hope this gets moved to random discussion as we don't need a Steem/BTS discussion at this stage and/or give a non share-dropped platform unnecessary exposure.

Haven't you repeatedly said that you sold off all of your non-vesting stake in BitShares long ago? I have come to suspect the motivation behind your comments.

Yes correct, nearly all of my BTS is vesting. ( Though I'm actually in favour of ending the merger early and losing that BTS because I believe it would be in the best interests of BTS.) I've also said once we get to the end of this awful merger I believe BTS could go from strength and to strength & will probably be accumulating a much larger position closer to that stage.

However I wish you guys with interest in other projects luck, but I'm personally not a fan of having them promoted in the general BTS discussion area. BTS and this forum has been built up over a few years, it's a great asset as is the platform. Perhaps if Steem gains some traction over the next 6-12 months some synergistic relationships may be warranted.

However atm it's the equivalent of suggesting moving Bitcointalk.org over to Banx/XRP/ (Some other fairly centralized/new/small possibly competing blockchain forum.)

Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: onceuponatime on May 08, 2016, 10:27:06 pm
BitShares is a great platform with a great community that is only 5 months away from ending a hugely expensive merger.

Trying to be polite and not criticize it too much, but at this nascent stage I would say Steem probably shouldn't even have a third party project place on this forum.

Good luck to those taking part but please give it a few months as you risk dragging down a great project like BTS unnecessarily if that project ends up failing. (9/10 new businesses do)

I hope this gets moved to random discussion as we don't need a Steem/BTS discussion at this stage and/or give a non share-dropped platform unnecessary exposure.

Haven't you repeatedly said that you sold off all of your non-vesting stake in BitShares long ago? I have come to suspect the motivation behind your comments.

Yes correct, nearly all of my BTS is vesting. ( Though I'm actually in favour of ending the merger early and losing that BTS because I believe it would be in the best interests of BTS.) I've also said once we get to the end of this awful merger I believe BTS could go from strength and to strength & will probably be accumulating a much larger position closer to that stage.

However I wish you guys with interest in other projects luck, but I'm personally not a fan of having them promoted in the general BTS discussion area. BTS and this forum has been built up over a few years, it's a great asset as is the platform. Perhaps if Steem gains some traction over the next 6-12 months some synergistic relationships may be warranted.

However atm it's the equivalent of suggesting moving Bitcointalk.org over to Banx/XRP/ (Some other fairly centralized/new/small possibly competing blockchain forum.)

The anti-delutionist faction made further development of BitShares virtually impossible. Steem has opened up once more a way to get funding to BitShares developers to work on this project (ask Fuzzy, ask kenCode, ask roadscape). In fact, if you take an open minded look, I think you would find that the synergies are quite remarkable.

Additionally, bitsharestalk.org is not owned by the community but by Bitsaphire who have not appeared to be actively involved in BitShares for a very long time. The founders and many of the participants of Steem are passionate about BitShares.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: luckybit on May 08, 2016, 10:48:10 pm
Bad idea. A better idea would be to build Steemit into OpenLedger so instead of the Trollbox we can also have the forums within the exchange itself. It makes no sense to not promote the exchange. Why communicate here or try to bring Bitshares over to Steemit?
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: luckybit on May 08, 2016, 10:50:39 pm
BitShares is a great platform with a great community that is only 5 months away from ending a hugely expensive merger.

Trying to be polite and not criticize it too much, but at this nascent stage I would say Steem probably shouldn't even have a third party project place on this forum.

Good luck to those taking part but please give it a few months as you risk dragging down a great project like BTS unnecessarily if that project ends up failing. (9/10 new businesses do)

I hope this gets moved to random discussion as we don't need a Steem/BTS discussion at this stage and/or give a non share-dropped platform unnecessary exposure.

Haven't you repeatedly said that you sold off all of your non-vesting stake in BitShares long ago? I have come to suspect the motivation behind your comments.

Yes correct, nearly all of my BTS is vesting. ( Though I'm actually in favour of ending the merger early and losing that BTS because I believe it would be in the best interests of BTS.) I've also said once we get to the end of this awful merger I believe BTS could go from strength and to strength & will probably be accumulating a much larger position closer to that stage.

However I wish you guys with interest in other projects luck, but I'm personally not a fan of having them promoted in the general BTS discussion area. BTS and this forum has been built up over a few years, it's a great asset as is the platform. Perhaps if Steem gains some traction over the next 6-12 months some synergistic relationships may be warranted.

However atm it's the equivalent of suggesting moving Bitcointalk.org over to Banx/XRP/ (Some other fairly centralized/new/small possibly competing blockchain forum.)

The anti-delutionist faction made further development of BitShares virtually impossible. Steem has opened up once more a way to get funding to BitShares developers to work on this project (ask Fuzzy, ask kenCode, ask roadscape). In fact, if you take an open minded look, I think you would find that the synergies are quite remarkable.

Additionally, bitsharestalk.org is not owned by the community but by Bitsaphire who have not appeared to be actively involved in BitShares for a very long time. The founders and many of the participants of Steem are passionate about BitShares.

Prove it. Either integrate Steemit into Bitshares or it's just another competitor.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: onceuponatime on May 08, 2016, 11:32:57 pm
BitShares is a great platform with a great community that is only 5 months away from ending a hugely expensive merger.

Trying to be polite and not criticize it too much, but at this nascent stage I would say Steem probably shouldn't even have a third party project place on this forum.

Good luck to those taking part but please give it a few months as you risk dragging down a great project like BTS unnecessarily if that project ends up failing. (9/10 new businesses do)

I hope this gets moved to random discussion as we don't need a Steem/BTS discussion at this stage and/or give a non share-dropped platform unnecessary exposure.

Haven't you repeatedly said that you sold off all of your non-vesting stake in BitShares long ago? I have come to suspect the motivation behind your comments.

Yes correct, nearly all of my BTS is vesting. ( Though I'm actually in favour of ending the merger early and losing that BTS because I believe it would be in the best interests of BTS.) I've also said once we get to the end of this awful merger I believe BTS could go from strength and to strength & will probably be accumulating a much larger position closer to that stage.

However I wish you guys with interest in other projects luck, but I'm personally not a fan of having them promoted in the general BTS discussion area. BTS and this forum has been built up over a few years, it's a great asset as is the platform. Perhaps if Steem gains some traction over the next 6-12 months some synergistic relationships may be warranted.

However atm it's the equivalent of suggesting moving Bitcointalk.org over to Banx/XRP/ (Some other fairly centralized/new/small possibly competing blockchain forum.)

The anti-delutionist faction made further development of BitShares virtually impossible. Steem has opened up once more a way to get funding to BitShares developers to work on this project (ask Fuzzy, ask kenCode, ask roadscape). In fact, if you take an open minded look, I think you would find that the synergies are quite remarkable.

Additionally, bitsharestalk.org is not owned by the community but by Bitsaphire who have not appeared to be actively involved in BitShares for a very long time. The founders and many of the participants of Steem are passionate about BitShares.

Prove it. Either integrate Steemit into Bitshares or it's just another competitor.

Are you offering to pay for integration? I didn't think so.

Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: puppies on May 09, 2016, 12:11:57 am
Great idea.  I think we should move as much discussion as possible over to steemit.  I don't think it risks hurting bts at all if steem doesn't catch on.  We would just have to find another home for our forum. 

If you would like to try out steem you can now register for free if you link your facebook account.  go to steemit.com and click create account in the upper right hand corner.  If you prefer to not link your facebook account, or would just like to pay for an account I have instruction up at steemit.com/steemhelp/@dele-puppy/register-bot

I need to update the instructions as some minor things have changed, but they will still work.  Send me a PM if you have any issues.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: ebit on May 09, 2016, 12:26:54 am
Why not move Steemit    to Bitsharestalk or Bitcointalk ?

 +5%
Quote
Prove it. Either integrate Steemit into Bitshares or it's just another competitor.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: puppies on May 09, 2016, 12:28:37 am
Wht not move Steemit    to Bitsharestalk ?

You could mirror the steem blockchain at bitsharestalk.org.  That would be a fine idea.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: gamey on May 09, 2016, 02:30:21 am
BitShares is a great platform with a great community that is only 5 months away from ending a hugely expensive merger.

Trying to be polite and not criticize it too much, but at this nascent stage I would say Steem probably shouldn't even have a third party project place on this forum.

Good luck to those taking part but please give it a few months as you risk dragging down a great project like BTS unnecessarily if that project ends up failing. (9/10 new businesses do)

I hope this gets moved to random discussion as we don't need a Steem/BTS discussion at this stage and/or give a non share-dropped platform unnecessary exposure.

Haven't you repeatedly said that you sold off all of your non-vesting stake in BitShares long ago? I have come to suspect the motivation behind your comments.

Some of us have had our eyes open for some time now and don't want to follow the latest Larimer... wherever or whenever that may be.

Good luck with Steemit but as AFAIK it has nothing to do with Bitshares. We may hear otherwise, but frankly I've heard too much over the past couple of years to give any credibility to certain factions. I feel like I still have a lot of egg on my face after the way I interacted with ABL. (Although he had a lot of bad ideas himself)

Steemit is like the weakest usecase for a blockchain.  It has nothing to do with transparency or being anti-censorship or any other high-minded goals.

The social contract..oh wait.. CONSENSUS has been broken.  If Steemit wanted our support, they should have shown it by their actions.

Realistically it is up to the people who post where they post. I won't be touching Steemit (which probably means it'll turn into gold...) The core group of Bitshares might though.

I am like Empirical. I don't care to criticize too much, but when I see people questioning Empircal's motives I really think they have far too many biases to view this objectively. He was with me at the end of AGS and putting a lot of effort into pushing Bitshares on  bitcointalk. More than anyone else. All that was completely thrown away. Lessons have been learned after repeated reinforcement.

Seriously, what little I have seen about Steemit makes the whole thing sound sketchy.  Playing marketcap games.  You guys just give up on having Bitshares keep its remaining integrity?
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: merivercap on May 09, 2016, 02:45:20 am
Yes correct, nearly all of my BTS is vesting. ( Though I'm actually in favour of ending the merger early and losing that BTS because I believe it would be in the best interests of BTS.) I've also said once we get to the end of this awful merger I believe BTS could go from strength and to strength & will probably be accumulating a much larger position closer to that stage.

However I wish you guys with interest in other projects luck, but I'm personally not a fan of having them promoted in the general BTS discussion area. BTS and this forum has been built up over a few years, it's a great asset as is the platform. Perhaps if Steem gains some traction over the next 6-12 months some synergistic relationships may be warranted.

However atm it's the equivalent of suggesting moving Bitcointalk.org over to Banx/XRP/ (Some other fairly centralized/new/small possibly competing blockchain forum.)

Sure it can happen sometime down the rode, but it seems to make sense to start the discussion sooner than later.  I have a feeling gradually people will move over for the convenience and the reward potential.  Perhaps it will naturally happen anyways. The Steemit platform can work for many ecosystems, but I think it's perfect for BTS for many reasons. 

Bad idea. A better idea would be to build Steemit into OpenLedger so instead of the Trollbox we can also have the forums within the exchange itself. It makes no sense to not promote the exchange. Why communicate here or try to bring Bitshares over to Steemit?

There is some overlap with BTS, but Steemit is very different overall.  It's more complementary and is very useful for discussion, not exchanging crypto assets like BTS.   It's more like a blockchain social network or Reddit that can make blockchain technology mainstream.

Wht not move Steemit    to Bitsharestalk ?

You could mirror the steem blockchain at bitsharestalk.org.  That would be a fine idea.


Yeah another approach could be to retheme a BTS forum on the Steemit blockchain perhaps?  I think it may be easier to just move gradually over time.  Anyways it's good to hear people's thoughts on the matter.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: donkeypong on May 09, 2016, 04:12:30 am
Keep it here unless/until the two merge their features somehow.

EDIT: I have gained enough experience now with STEEM to know that it works very well. While I opposed moving the forum there before, I now would support such a move, if that is what the community decides. It would provide more synergy and reward the people who are still active on this forum. 
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: mint chocolate chip on May 09, 2016, 04:43:38 am
Unfortunately for BitShares Talk the stats show it is dwindling down https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=stats pretty quickly. Month over month there are less new posts, less page views, less new members, less new topics. Blame the marketcap, development standstill, getting Steem-rolled, more exciting crypto projects, lack of things to talk about, the merger, the unfulfilled plans, referral bonus being drastically reduced, or whatever, the fact is that there is just a handful of people who post here now - as soon as they realize that fact they will most likely consider moving on as well.

Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: luckybit on May 09, 2016, 07:41:09 am
BitShares is a great platform with a great community that is only 5 months away from ending a hugely expensive merger.

Trying to be polite and not criticize it too much, but at this nascent stage I would say Steem probably shouldn't even have a third party project place on this forum.

Good luck to those taking part but please give it a few months as you risk dragging down a great project like BTS unnecessarily if that project ends up failing. (9/10 new businesses do)

I hope this gets moved to random discussion as we don't need a Steem/BTS discussion at this stage and/or give a non share-dropped platform unnecessary exposure.

Haven't you repeatedly said that you sold off all of your non-vesting stake in BitShares long ago? I have come to suspect the motivation behind your comments.

Yes correct, nearly all of my BTS is vesting. ( Though I'm actually in favour of ending the merger early and losing that BTS because I believe it would be in the best interests of BTS.) I've also said once we get to the end of this awful merger I believe BTS could go from strength and to strength & will probably be accumulating a much larger position closer to that stage.

However I wish you guys with interest in other projects luck, but I'm personally not a fan of having them promoted in the general BTS discussion area. BTS and this forum has been built up over a few years, it's a great asset as is the platform. Perhaps if Steem gains some traction over the next 6-12 months some synergistic relationships may be warranted.

However atm it's the equivalent of suggesting moving Bitcointalk.org over to Banx/XRP/ (Some other fairly centralized/new/small possibly competing blockchain forum.)

The anti-delutionist faction made further development of BitShares virtually impossible. Steem has opened up once more a way to get funding to BitShares developers to work on this project (ask Fuzzy, ask kenCode, ask roadscape). In fact, if you take an open minded look, I think you would find that the synergies are quite remarkable.

Additionally, bitsharestalk.org is not owned by the community but by Bitsaphire who have not appeared to be actively involved in BitShares for a very long time. The founders and many of the participants of Steem are passionate about BitShares.

Prove it. Either integrate Steemit into Bitshares or it's just another competitor.

Are you offering to pay for integration? I didn't think so.

Who paid for the trollbox? It's not like there is a worker proposal so we can pay for integration but maybe ask the community?

In any case I definitely don't support converting this community over to Steemit. Steemit is the little child of Bitshares not the other way around.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: luckybit on May 09, 2016, 07:43:55 am
Unfortunately for BitShares Talk the stats show it is dwindling down https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?action=stats pretty quickly. Month over month there are less new posts, less page views, less new members, less new topics. Blame the marketcap, development standstill, getting Steem-rolled, more exciting crypto projects, lack of things to talk about, the merger, the unfulfilled plans, referral bonus being drastically reduced, or whatever, the fact is that there is just a handful of people who post here now - as soon as they realize that fact they will most likely consider moving on as well.

It's real simple. Integrate the forum into OpenLedger itself. People should be attracted to OpenLedger and not to this site. The goal is to get people to spend more time in Bitshares not to have people on Bitsharestalk.

On the other hand if the Bitshares community is going to act like Bitshares is dead because the money ran out then maybe you should vote differently or make a simple change so exchanges can't vote on behalf of the token owners without the token owners permission.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: fav on May 09, 2016, 09:25:46 am
no moderation function is a bad idea for a forum like this. no one wants to see spam porn and whatever, if we want them to take us serious
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: Thom on May 09, 2016, 04:24:16 pm
Wow, those stats are indeed rather dismal and the trend is clear as day.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: dannotestein on May 09, 2016, 05:41:31 pm
Wow, those stats are indeed rather dismal and the trend is clear as day.
The stats look far worse than the truth in this case, because May stats are for a partial month. Re-evaluating with that correction, data doesn't look nearly as bad.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: mint chocolate chip on May 09, 2016, 06:21:38 pm
Wow, those stats are indeed rather dismal and the trend is clear as day.
The stats look far worse than the truth in this case, because May stats are for a partial month. Re-evaluating with that correction, data doesn't look nearly as bad.
Multiple all May stats by 4 to estimate the whole month...still not good.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: dannotestein on May 09, 2016, 06:48:14 pm
Wow, those stats are indeed rather dismal and the trend is clear as day.
The stats look far worse than the truth in this case, because May stats are for a partial month. Re-evaluating with that correction, data doesn't look nearly as bad.
Multiple all May stats by 4 to estimate the whole month...still not good.
Not good, but not dire. Certainly one cause is that some of our more prolific posters  are tied up in other activities right now (BM, DataSecurityNode, kencode, and associated team members). And as been mentioned, a lot of our posters are posting more now on steemit. I think it would be a big mistake to read too much into this regarding BitShares itself.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: jsidhu on May 09, 2016, 07:07:06 pm
Didnt even know about Steemit until recently... seems those that do the hangouts know and the rest of the community doesnt... would have been good to do some blogs etc about shifting focus seems he just picks up his desk and leaves as he sees fit (BM)... anyways I'd like to see some proof that he is going to merge both projects as that will give confidence in holding BTS.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: Empirical1.2 on May 09, 2016, 07:10:20 pm
Wow, those stats are indeed rather dismal and the trend is clear as day.
The stats look far worse than the truth in this case, because May stats are for a partial month. Re-evaluating with that correction, data doesn't look nearly as bad.
Multiple all May stats by 4 to estimate the whole month...still not good.

There should be a large drop off over the last 3-5 months given recent events. I think it needs to find it's feet again and I would wait till after the end of the merger before writing BTS off or declare it dying/dead. It may be a sleeping elephant. (Once it's unburdened of nearly 50 BTC a week in costs, that are adding low/no benefit.)

Moving/merging BTS with possible competitor type discussions will bring down BTS value but not in a way that transfers value elsewhere. We may also find some key players finding their way back to it once it's unburdened and more development funding can be supported. So at this stage there's no need to tie the fate of BTS's success to that of a new kid on the block which may run into issues of its own and currently has wafer thin buy support.

 
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: gamey on May 09, 2016, 09:43:16 pm

There really just isn't anything new to discuss while there are tons of other exciting crypto projects.

Larimers claim things will be picked back up, but meh. Until then what is there to talk about?  Innovation drives interest and it is going on everywhere else unfortunately.

Peerplays sounds cool, but it did nothing with the social consensus.  Basically it appears the social consensus is completely dead. It was a good marketing angle I guess. There just aren't many things that are discussion worthy. It should be absolutely no surprise the activity has dropped dow.

When and if Bitshares 3.0 is made, then I'm sure things will pick back up. A bond market + margin trading would be awesome.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: puppies on May 09, 2016, 10:14:32 pm
Bts is awesome as is.  What we need is for more old timers to log into the wallet and tear up the troll box. 

I don't want to tie bts to an unproven crypto, but I also don't want to tie it to an ancient forum. 
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: cryptillionaire on May 10, 2016, 12:26:41 am
Why not use both rather than forcing the premined STEEM down our throats?
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: cube on May 10, 2016, 01:22:16 am
Why not use both rather than forcing the premined STEEM down our throats?

Nobody is forcing anyone to Steemit.  The suggest comes from a community member.  We are free to choose how and where to post our messsages.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: Ben Mason on May 10, 2016, 06:05:01 am
Steemit rewards contribution....of course bitsharestalk should move.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: btswildpig on May 10, 2016, 07:18:51 am
well , you're making an assumption that the premined STEEM could feed them forever and they will work on STEEM forever .....

clearly it won't be the case looking back at history .
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: Frodo on May 10, 2016, 08:32:24 am
I honestly can't take STEEM seriously as a long term project. And I don't understand why the economics behind it would appeal to anyone.
So no, I don't think we should move everything over to STEEM.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: Ben Mason on May 10, 2016, 11:18:27 am
well , you're making an assumption that the premined STEEM could feed them forever and they will work on STEEM forever .....

clearly it won't be the case looking back at history .

i disagree.....I am stating a fact that should be of interest to anyone who would like to gain value by being productive. You are making an assumption based on your interpretation of the past and the future....yet presenting it as fact.

I have concluded that the contributors to the BitShares forum would benefit from making use of the opportunities available within the Steemit network.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: Ben Mason on May 10, 2016, 11:31:49 am
Whatsmore.....the constant divisive commentary is obviously detrimental to the interests of BitShares, openledger, Steemit and other connected  projects which are being driven by the most productive elements of these communities.

I have no doubt that there is a miasma of nefarious agendas in play. It is for individuals to evaluate for themselves..... I would argue for a willingness to accept the mistakes of the past as genuine, work with their consequences and adapt.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: Stan on May 10, 2016, 01:38:06 pm
Steem's unlimited range of topics appeals to an infinitely wider audience than BitSharesTalk and thus has the benefit of bringing new eyeballs to anything about BitShares posted there.

This includes new DEX users who have picked up a head of Steem and now want to know what other cool things you can do with it.

Kind of like Plutonium.

It's fortunate that those with intractably bitter attitudes want to stay here on BitSharesTalk where no one will see their posts and only positive, optimistic people want to move their constructive, forward thinking opinions into the bright, puffy cloud of Steem where snide comments quickly sink into oblivion.  So it's a really beautiful, self-reinforcing Darwinian selection process. 

No need to formally make such a group decision.  It will sort itself out.

:)
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: Ben Mason on May 10, 2016, 02:08:15 pm
Indeed Stan.

I guess I'm encouraging those still reading the BitShares forum who may be a victim of the misrepresentation that routinely takes place here. I hope as many 'salmon' make it to the spawning ground as possible. After all, times have been very challenging and good people, supporters of the vision to dicier life, liberty and property for all, have become understandably disenfranchised.... I hope we can win them back and succeed where we have perhaps failed them in the past.

Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: Empirical1.2 on May 10, 2016, 02:21:07 pm
Steemit rewards contribution....of course bitsharestalk should move.

Unfortunately the time value of good contributors forum posts is far in excess of what it would ever make sense to financially reward. So it's not much of a USP.

You could have already observed this via Brownies for participation. While it initially attracts some interest it rapidly plateaus and doesn't add value or network effect to the underlying unit/platform/forum or incentivize good contributors. This is because there are plethora of factors that attract users to engage/identify/contribute content.

Imo due to launch/distribution and other factors such as the 'social + media' being really a core/fundamental weakness of the founders it's a poor, to put it mildly, foundation for this. What it does have going for it, is that talented developers like BM and others are probably going to be based there in the near term so your ideas have a greater chance of manifesting/contributing to developments which could positively affect your investment. (As I think it's a poor investment, I don't see the value in that personally, but others might.) 

So it's a really beautiful, self-reinforcing Darwinian selection process. No need to formally make such a decision.  It will sort itself out.

 +5%
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: Ben Mason on May 10, 2016, 02:42:05 pm
Steemit rewards contribution....of course bitsharestalk should move.

Unfortunately the time value of good contributors forum posts is far in excess of what it would ever make sense to financially reward. So it's not much of a USP.

You could have already observed this via Brownies for participation. While it initially attracts some interest it rapidly plateaus and doesn't add value or network effect to the underlying unit/platform/forum or incentivize good contributors. This is because there are plethora of factors that attract users to engage/identify/contribute content.

Imo due to launch/distribution and other factors such as the 'social + media' being really a core/fundamental weakness of the founders it's a poor, to put it mildly, foundation for this. What it does have going for it, is that talented developers like BM and others are probably going to be based there in the near term so your ideas have a greater chance of manifesting/contributing to developments which could positively affect your investment. (As I think it's a poor investment, I don't see the value in that personally, but others might.) 

So it's a really beautiful, self-reinforcing Darwinian selection process. No need to formally make such a decision.  It will sort itself out.

 +5%

With great respect, I really don't know how you can be so definitive about the prospects of value continuing to be available to contributors on the Steemit network. Surely the relationship between contribution and reward (let's not forget, rewards do not only come in the form of Steem) will be the result of complex growth/innovation dynamics. Nobody is guaranteeing anything. But we can work hard and hope can't we? No-one has cracked mass adoption.....social media is a great start. The naysayers evaluation is as valid as the next person's but the future is unknown to everyone. I find solace in the technology, the effort and those many that share a solidarity of effort and optimism.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: Stan on May 10, 2016, 02:49:55 pm
What would we do without the Knights who say "Nay!" ?

(http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/The-Knights-Who-Say-Ni-monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-591175_1008_566.jpg)

Behind every successful entrepreneur is the heaping pile of naysayers she chose to ignore.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: Ben Mason on May 10, 2016, 03:00:43 pm
Very good Stan. I sense a return of the old you....and very welcome it is.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: Empirical1.2 on May 10, 2016, 03:16:46 pm
Steemit rewards contribution....of course bitsharestalk should move.

Unfortunately the time value of good contributors forum posts is far in excess of what it would ever make sense to financially reward. So it's not much of a USP.

You could have already observed this via Brownies for participation. While it initially attracts some interest it rapidly plateaus and doesn't add value or network effect to the underlying unit/platform/forum or incentivize good contributors. This is because there are plethora of factors that attract users to engage/identify/contribute content.

Imo due to launch/distribution and other factors such as the 'social + media' being really a core/fundamental weakness of the founders it's a poor, to put it mildly, foundation for this. What it does have going for it, is that talented developers like BM and others are probably going to be based there in the near term so your ideas have a greater chance of manifesting/contributing to developments which could positively affect your investment. (As I think it's a poor investment, I don't see the value in that personally, but others might.) 

So it's a really beautiful, self-reinforcing Darwinian selection process. No need to formally make such a decision.  It will sort itself out.

 +5%

With great respect, I really don't know how you can be so definitive about the prospects of value continuing to be available to contributors on the Steemit network. Surely the relationship between contribution and reward (let's not forget, rewards do not only come in the form of Steem) will be the result of complex growth/innovation dynamics. Nobody is guaranteeing anything. But we can work hard and hope can't we? No-one has cracked mass adoption.....social media is a great start. The naysayers evaluation is as valid as the next person's but the future is unknown to everyone. I find solace in the technology, the effort and those many that share a solidarity of effort and optimism.

 +5% you make a lot of good points including the fact that social media is potentially a great route to mass adoption.

Regards my personal evaluation, yeah it's pretty definitive, but it's a very fast moving industry so things can change. While the future is largely unknown, we do know >92% of tech start-ups fail within a couple of years, so as positive as anyone may be about any new venture, it's unnecessary to tie the fate of BTS via moving/merging to it at this nascent stage imo. I agree with Stan that it if it's superior, it doesn't need a formal decision/move and that it will occur naturally. 
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: crypto4ever on May 10, 2016, 03:20:38 pm
Behind every successful entrepreneur is the heaping pile of naysayers she chose to ignore.

I don't believe this quote holds the same truth when it's a community entrepreneur.  Consensus and majority are important safeguards.

With regards to Steem, if it is indeed a better place for BTS discussions, then surely it will attract a better following.

The fair play here is to have both exist, and let users gravitate towards to more functional, more popular version.  People inherently will want to follow both.  The winning platform will be self evident in the next 6 months..

The last thing that should be done is to forceably funnel people where you want them.

Also, the historical posts here are vastly important. Are all of them going to be re-imported into steem?
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: Ben Mason on May 10, 2016, 03:47:44 pm
Steemit rewards contribution....of course bitsharestalk should move.

Unfortunately the time value of good contributors forum posts is far in excess of what it would ever make sense to financially reward. So it's not much of a USP.

You could have already observed this via Brownies for participation. While it initially attracts some interest it rapidly plateaus and doesn't add value or network effect to the underlying unit/platform/forum or incentivize good contributors. This is because there are plethora of factors that attract users to engage/identify/contribute content.

Imo due to launch/distribution and other factors such as the 'social + media' being really a core/fundamental weakness of the founders it's a poor, to put it mildly, foundation for this. What it does have going for it, is that talented developers like BM and others are probably going to be based there in the near term so your ideas have a greater chance of manifesting/contributing to developments which could positively affect your investment. (As I think it's a poor investment, I don't see the value in that personally, but others might.) 

So it's a really beautiful, self-reinforcing Darwinian selection process. No need to formally make such a decision.  It will sort itself out.

 +5%

With great respect, I really don't know how you can be so definitive about the prospects of value continuing to be available to contributors on the Steemit network. Surely the relationship between contribution and reward (let's not forget, rewards do not only come in the form of Steem) will be the result of complex growth/innovation dynamics. Nobody is guaranteeing anything. But we can work hard and hope can't we? No-one has cracked mass adoption.....social media is a great start. The naysayers evaluation is as valid as the next person's but the future is unknown to everyone. I find solace in the technology, the effort and those many that share a solidarity of effort and optimism.

 +5% you make a lot of good points including the fact that social media is potentially a great route to mass adoption.

Regards my personal evaluation, yeah it's pretty definitive, but it's a very fast moving industry so things can change. While the future is largely unknown, we do know >92% of tech start-ups fail within a couple of years, so as positive as anyone may be about any new venture, it's unnecessary to tie the fate of BTS via moving/merging to it at this nascent stage imo. I agree with Stan that it if it's superior, it doesn't need a formal decision/move and that it will occur naturally.

On reflection I do agree with you and Stan. There is no need to cease one for the other.....people will be drawn to where they find what they need. I am grateful for the discussion though. It has been a chance to engage our community in ideas and motivations. Also, as you rightly point out, there may be a high chance of failure (depending on how you determine it) but there have been some formidable successes within BitShares. Not least in the trials-by-fire that both developers and entrepreneurs and community members have been through and learned from. I believe the possibilities of success Are potentially higher for later projects as a result.  If those can incorporate or work in tandem with the existing technology that has been built, then all the better. I truely hope you will try Steem Empirical, just because if it does work out, I hope you get the value you huge contribution already deserves. You and many many others. We would already have nothing without the perseverance, dedication and ideas that have come from here. It's not the platform the matters, it's the people on it.

Crypto4ever is absolutely right that all historical posts must be preserved in perpetuity.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: Stan on May 10, 2016, 05:33:58 pm
Behind every successful entrepreneur is the heaping pile of naysayers she chose to ignore.

I don't believe this quote holds the same truth when it's a community entrepreneur.  Consensus and majority are important safeguards.

With regards to Steem, if it is indeed a better place for BTS discussions, then surely it will attract a better following.

The fair play here is to have both exist, and let users gravitate towards to more functional, more popular version.  People inherently will want to follow both.  The winning platform will be self evident in the next 6 months..

The last thing that should be done is to forceably funnel people where you want them.

Also, the historical posts here are vastly important. Are all of them going to be re-imported into steem?

Well, bringing in valuable content from anywhere is allowed.  Whether it's worth your time depends on what value you are perceived to be adding. 

I can imagine curating my top 2400 posts, and commenting on how insightful they are, would be highly lucrative...
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: gamey on May 11, 2016, 12:46:23 am
Steem's unlimited range of topics appeals to an infinitely wider audience than BitSharesTalk and thus has the benefit of bringing new eyeballs to anything about BitShares posted there.

This includes new DEX users who have picked up a head of Steem and now want to know what other cool things you can do with it.

Kind of like Plutonium.

It's fortunate that those with intractably bitter attitudes want to stay here on BitSharesTalk where no one will see their posts and only positive, optimistic people want to move their constructive, forward thinking opinions into the bright, puffy cloud of Steem where snide comments quickly sink into oblivion.  So it's a really beautiful, self-reinforcing Darwinian selection process. 

No need to formally make such a group decision.  It will sort itself out.

:)

It is very much true that shady people who have one consistent trait of not following through with what they say they're going to do would prefer a site where they and their cohorts can bury any messages pointing this out.

Edit - It shows a lack of integrity to not speak of one's truth beliefs.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: gamey on May 11, 2016, 12:50:53 am
What would we do without the Knights who say "Nay!" ?

(http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/The-Knights-Who-Say-Ni-monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-591175_1008_566.jpg)

Behind every successful entrepreneur is the heaping pile of naysayers she chose to ignore.

There are naysayers who say "no it won't work" and there are many naysayers who had a close history with certain people and want others to at least know what they're getting into.

BitShares is an impressive crypto-currency. I have nothing bad to say about BitShares 2.0 btw.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: btswildpig on May 11, 2016, 02:51:52 am
Steem's unlimited range of topics appeals to an infinitely wider audience than BitSharesTalk and thus has the benefit of bringing new eyeballs to anything about BitShares posted there.

This includes new DEX users who have picked up a head of Steem and now want to know what other cool things you can do with it.

Kind of like Plutonium.

It's fortunate that those with intractably bitter attitudes want to stay here on BitSharesTalk where no one will see their posts and only positive, optimistic people want to move their constructive, forward thinking opinions into the bright, puffy cloud of Steem where snide comments quickly sink into oblivion.  So it's a really beautiful, self-reinforcing Darwinian selection process. 

No need to formally make such a group decision.  It will sort itself out.

:)

It is very much true that shady people who have one consistent trait of not following through with what they say they're going to do would prefer a site where they and their cohorts can bury any messages pointing this out.

Edit - It shows a lack of integrity to not speak of one's truth beliefs.

hmm . I thought STEEM is a blockchain . I don't think burying information is possible .

Even with so-called up-vote and down-vote system , I can still build a site where the sorting algo will be different from STEEMIT right ?

Just like a Blockchain explorer can choose whether their Block info displays from top to bottom or bottom to top .
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: dannotestein on May 11, 2016, 03:17:29 am
Steem's unlimited range of topics appeals to an infinitely wider audience than BitSharesTalk and thus has the benefit of bringing new eyeballs to anything about BitShares posted there.

This includes new DEX users who have picked up a head of Steem and now want to know what other cool things you can do with it.

Kind of like Plutonium.

It's fortunate that those with intractably bitter attitudes want to stay here on BitSharesTalk where no one will see their posts and only positive, optimistic people want to move their constructive, forward thinking opinions into the bright, puffy cloud of Steem where snide comments quickly sink into oblivion.  So it's a really beautiful, self-reinforcing Darwinian selection process. 

No need to formally make such a group decision.  It will sort itself out.

:)

It is very much true that shady people who have one consistent trait of not following through with what they say they're going to do would prefer a site where they and their cohorts can bury any messages pointing this out.

Edit - It shows a lack of integrity to not speak of one's truth beliefs.

hmm . I thought STEEM is a blockchain . I don't think burying information is possible .

Even with so-called up-vote and down-vote system , I can still build a site where the sorting algo will be different from STEEMIT right ?

Just like a Blockchain explorer can choose whether their Block info displays from top to bottom or bottom to top .
yes, you're correct. I suspect steemit.com itself will give more options for viewing order as the site matures.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: gamey on May 11, 2016, 06:20:54 am
Steem's unlimited range of topics appeals to an infinitely wider audience than BitSharesTalk and thus has the benefit of bringing new eyeballs to anything about BitShares posted there.

This includes new DEX users who have picked up a head of Steem and now want to know what other cool things you can do with it.

Kind of like Plutonium.

It's fortunate that those with intractably bitter attitudes want to stay here on BitSharesTalk where no one will see their posts and only positive, optimistic people want to move their constructive, forward thinking opinions into the bright, puffy cloud of Steem where snide comments quickly sink into oblivion.  So it's a really beautiful, self-reinforcing Darwinian selection process. 

No need to formally make such a group decision.  It will sort itself out.

:)

It is very much true that shady people who have one consistent trait of not following through with what they say they're going to do would prefer a site where they and their cohorts can bury any messages pointing this out.

Edit - It shows a lack of integrity to not speak of one's truth beliefs.

hmm . I thought STEEM is a blockchain . I don't think burying information is possible .

Even with so-called up-vote and down-vote system , I can still build a site where the sorting algo will be different from STEEMIT right ?

Just like a Blockchain explorer can choose whether their Block info displays from top to bottom or bottom to top .

Sure. You're right, but is anyone going to do this?  Does it make any sense? Can you discern algorithmically why things have been voted down?

The information will be on the blockchain regardless. The difference is what level is it presented to users.

You can extract posts off the blockchain, but you could just as well use pastebin from the start and pass around the URL etc.

Upvoting/downvoting is great to get out the crap posts.

Not so great for legitimate criticisms.

Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: btswildpig on May 11, 2016, 06:24:13 am
Steem's unlimited range of topics appeals to an infinitely wider audience than BitSharesTalk and thus has the benefit of bringing new eyeballs to anything about BitShares posted there.

This includes new DEX users who have picked up a head of Steem and now want to know what other cool things you can do with it.

Kind of like Plutonium.

It's fortunate that those with intractably bitter attitudes want to stay here on BitSharesTalk where no one will see their posts and only positive, optimistic people want to move their constructive, forward thinking opinions into the bright, puffy cloud of Steem where snide comments quickly sink into oblivion.  So it's a really beautiful, self-reinforcing Darwinian selection process. 

No need to formally make such a group decision.  It will sort itself out.

:)

It is very much true that shady people who have one consistent trait of not following through with what they say they're going to do would prefer a site where they and their cohorts can bury any messages pointing this out.

Edit - It shows a lack of integrity to not speak of one's truth beliefs.

hmm . I thought STEEM is a blockchain . I don't think burying information is possible .

Even with so-called up-vote and down-vote system , I can still build a site where the sorting algo will be different from STEEMIT right ?

Just like a Blockchain explorer can choose whether their Block info displays from top to bottom or bottom to top .

Sure. You're right, but is anyone going to do this?  Does it make any sense? Can you discern algorithmically why things have been voted down?

The information will be on the blockchain regardless. The difference is what level is it presented to users.

You can extract posts off the blockchain, but you could just as well use pastebin from the start and pass around the URL etc.

Upvoting/downvoting is great to get out the crap posts.

Not so great for legitimate criticisms.

I haven't dig further into the algo . But with what control can you upvote a post ? Stake ?
Then what if people with criticisms buys a lot of stake and then upvote a criticisms post ?

PS. I forgot ...they premined 80% stake ..
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: gamey on May 11, 2016, 06:44:37 am
I haven't dig further into the algo . But with what control can you upvote a post ? Stake ?
Then what if people with criticisms buys a lot of stake and then upvote a criticisms post ?

I don't know if it is stake weighted or not. I've glanced at the landing page but have no interest in using a site with a small userbase.  Outside of possibly being paid to post,what incentive is there? Why rely on any project Bytemaster is the head of?  Why ? Because it exists and uses the same codebase as BitShares?

Ohhh I can be paid to post?  Give me a break for once.

It'll probably go to the moon because of my negativity. If it does it'll be one more thing where I chuckle about over beers.

There are legitimate reasons to use it in the interest of BTS.  Shared codebase means that  Bytemaster in theory would ask for less money to integrate improvements. More testing is done. Perhaps  he follows through with what he says ?

Still, just not my thing. It is a freemarket thing right. If you want to go start up BTS discussions there feel free.

As far as I can tell Steemit points is brownie points v2, but not even fungible so a sucker can buy them.  Are smart people who have the potential to make a decent wage going to use such a site for the few dollars they make??

Please inform me of any misconceptions. I fought FUD at the expense of my integrity back when. FUD is not something I wish to create now. I still and will always be a fan of BTS. Long live BitShares!

Just need to stop the anti-dillution bullshit and dig up some new devs since the crew seems to have sold out... There is a chance and thats why i have yet to claim my vested BTS.

What I question myself about is the guys who work on the project. I'm sure they're great guys. Almost all devs are. It isn't an easy way to make a living if you are a real dev.  It may pay well, but not for the lazy. My negativity does wear on me a bit, but then letting truth v5 be the new thing also wears on me.

Anyway, I have to stop typing.. I start becoming truly negative by my own standards. I start addressing those "intractably" bitter comments but lay on the delete key.  looool. 
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: Moon on May 11, 2016, 06:45:28 am
We all know mindphlux was a thief,

link:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21212.msg275947.html#msg275947


so, Why do we support him .Almost 1 year,
today,he have 215,272,616 BTS vote
how do you think  the price fall? maybe perhaps you can see from here,

we have been around a thief

This is our committee ?
This is our shame !

Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: gamey on May 11, 2016, 06:51:54 am

I wish there was a way to believe Steemit was an advantage of BTS and not just an attempt to steal early adopters.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: Ben Mason on May 11, 2016, 07:12:57 am
Steem's unlimited range of topics appeals to an infinitely wider audience than BitSharesTalk and thus has the benefit of bringing new eyeballs to anything about BitShares posted there.

This includes new DEX users who have picked up a head of Steem and now want to know what other cool things you can do with it.

Kind of like Plutonium.

It's fortunate that those with intractably bitter attitudes want to stay here on BitSharesTalk where no one will see their posts and only positive, optimistic people want to move their constructive, forward thinking opinions into the bright, puffy cloud of Steem where snide comments quickly sink into oblivion.  So it's a really beautiful, self-reinforcing Darwinian selection process. 

No need to formally make such a group decision.  It will sort itself out.

:)

It is very much true that shady people who have one consistent trait of not following through with what they say they're going to do would prefer a site where they and their cohorts can bury any messages pointing this out.

Edit - It shows a lack of integrity to not speak of one's truth beliefs.

All he's done is work tirelessly, tirelessly for BitShares. He has tried to remain a source of optimism, enthuse and inspire the community consistently for years. He is not responsible for project failures and changes of necessity along the way. You would be hard pressed to find anyone with more integrity than Stan. It saddens me that more people who should know better do not realise that.

If you don't like Steem, don't go there but please realise.....for your sake.....that Steemit is BitShares. It took me a while to figure out too ;)) Steemit is one of the many ways we can increase the chance of BitShares decentralised market features reaching  a wider audience and continue its development. Supporting Steemit is supporting BitShares. Consider that this may be a significant step to moving beyond an aggressive, often misrepresentative crypto only crowd. Blockchain tech desperately needs new minds.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: gamey on May 11, 2016, 07:43:04 am
Steem's unlimited range of topics appeals to an infinitely wider audience than BitSharesTalk and thus has the benefit of bringing new eyeballs to anything about BitShares posted there.

This includes new DEX users who have picked up a head of Steem and now want to know what other cool things you can do with it.

Kind of like Plutonium.

It's fortunate that those with intractably bitter attitudes want to stay here on BitSharesTalk where no one will see their posts and only positive, optimistic people want to move their constructive, forward thinking opinions into the bright, puffy cloud of Steem where snide comments quickly sink into oblivion.  So it's a really beautiful, self-reinforcing Darwinian selection process. 

No need to formally make such a group decision.  It will sort itself out.

:)

It is very much true that shady people who have one consistent trait of not following through with what they say they're going to do would prefer a site where they and their cohorts can bury any messages pointing this out.

Edit - It shows a lack of integrity to not speak of one's truth beliefs.

All he's done is work tirelessly, tirelessly for BitShares. He has tried to remain a source of optimism, enthuse and inspire the community consistently for years. He is not responsible for project failures and changes of necessity along the way. You would be hard pressed to find anyone with more integrity than Stan. It saddens me that more people who should know better do not realise that.

If you don't like Steem, don't go there but please realise.....for your sake.....that Steemit is BitShares. It took me a while to figure out too ;)) Steemit is one of the many ways we can increase the chance of BitShares decentralised market features reaching  a wider audience and continue its development. Supporting Steemit is supporting BitShares. Consider that this may be a significant step to moving beyond an aggressive, often misrepresentative crypto only crowd. Blockchain tech desperately needs new minds.

I do have to ask, how do you think Steemit advances blockchain tech ?  Give us a rundown on this?

IMO basically one could rewrite STEEMIT using a centralized database, but there would be no suckers to buy the tokens because they're not "crypto".  THATS IT.

Am I missing something ?

This "all he is done" is bullshit. I had your attitude ~ 2 years ago and argued with a guy named Adam B Levine. He had quite a bit of history before me.  While I do think he was carried away with hyperbole, (Suggesting Larimers owned 40%+ of BTS etc)  I do think he had legitimate reasons for most everything he said. When these situations repeat themselves, perhaps you should step away and wonder what is really going on and learn from history.

Thats all I will say on this matter, out of respect to collateral damage to various hard working honest supporters. I feel like a dick both ways. Be honest and hurt people, say nothing and let people learn their lesson. "Voluntary shunning" is not that great if you let the next guy get screwed.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: Ben Mason on May 11, 2016, 08:24:38 am
Steem's unlimited range of topics appeals to an infinitely wider audience than BitSharesTalk and thus has the benefit of bringing new eyeballs to anything about BitShares posted there.

This includes new DEX users who have picked up a head of Steem and now want to know what other cool things you can do with it.

Kind of like Plutonium.

It's fortunate that those with intractably bitter attitudes want to stay here on BitSharesTalk where no one will see their posts and only positive, optimistic people want to move their constructive, forward thinking opinions into the bright, puffy cloud of Steem where snide comments quickly sink into oblivion.  So it's a really beautiful, self-reinforcing Darwinian selection process. 

No need to formally make such a group decision.  It will sort itself out.

:)

It is very much true that shady people who have one consistent trait of not following through with what they say they're going to do would prefer a site where they and their cohorts can bury any messages pointing this out.

Edit - It shows a lack of integrity to not speak of one's truth beliefs.

All he's done is work tirelessly, tirelessly for BitShares. He has tried to remain a source of optimism, enthuse and inspire the community consistently for years. He is not responsible for project failures and changes of necessity along the way. You would be hard pressed to find anyone with more integrity than Stan. It saddens me that more people who should know better do not realise that.

If you don't like Steem, don't go there but please realise.....for your sake.....that Steemit is BitShares. It took me a while to figure out too ;)) Steemit is one of the many ways we can increase the chance of BitShares decentralised market features reaching  a wider audience and continue its development. Supporting Steemit is supporting BitShares. Consider that this may be a significant step to moving beyond an aggressive, often misrepresentative crypto only crowd. Blockchain tech desperately needs new minds.

I do have to ask, how do you think Steemit advances blockchain tech ?  Give us a rundown on this?

IMO basically one could rewrite STEEMIT using a centralized database, but there would be no suckers to buy the tokens because they're not "crypto".  THATS IT.

Am I missing something ?

This "all he is done" is bullshit. I had your attitude ~ 2 years ago and argued with a guy named Adam B Levine. He had quite a bit of history before me.  While I do think he was carried away with hyperbole, (Suggesting Larimers owned 40%+ of BTS etc)  I do think he had legitimate reasons for most everything he said. When these situations repeat themselves, perhaps you should step away and wonder what is really going on and learn from history.

Thats all I will say on this matter, out of respect to collateral damage to various hard working honest supporters. I feel like a dick both ways. Be honest and hurt people, say nothing and let people learn their lesson. "Voluntary shunning" is not that great if you let the next guy get screwed.
Steemit has the potential to enhance the conversation, to bring new ideas, new capital in. All of which increase the chance of further development.

You say my attitude is 'bullshit.' You are of course entitled to you're opinion. I believe in honesty, even if it hurts.  But I don't believe in casual references to complex history, fraught with competing ideas, agendas and a multitude of challenges that then lead to an over-simplistic judgement against a man's integrity. Especially one that has deeply enhanced the community with his intellect, humour and optimism. With friends like these......!

I have no doubt that from your perspective, you feel Stan has over promised and under delivered. Fair enough, but that is certainly not a question of integrity from my perspective.

Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: gamey on May 11, 2016, 03:18:59 pm
Steem's unlimited range of topics appeals to an infinitely wider audience than BitSharesTalk and thus has the benefit of bringing new eyeballs to anything about BitShares posted there.

This includes new DEX users who have picked up a head of Steem and now want to know what other cool things you can do with it.

Kind of like Plutonium.

It's fortunate that those with intractably bitter attitudes want to stay here on BitSharesTalk where no one will see their posts and only positive, optimistic people want to move their constructive, forward thinking opinions into the bright, puffy cloud of Steem where snide comments quickly sink into oblivion.  So it's a really beautiful, self-reinforcing Darwinian selection process. 

No need to formally make such a group decision.  It will sort itself out.

:)

It is very much true that shady people who have one consistent trait of not following through with what they say they're going to do would prefer a site where they and their cohorts can bury any messages pointing this out.

Edit - It shows a lack of integrity to not speak of one's truth beliefs.

All he's done is work tirelessly, tirelessly for BitShares. He has tried to remain a source of optimism, enthuse and inspire the community consistently for years. He is not responsible for project failures and changes of necessity along the way. You would be hard pressed to find anyone with more integrity than Stan. It saddens me that more people who should know better do not realise that.

If you don't like Steem, don't go there but please realise.....for your sake.....that Steemit is BitShares. It took me a while to figure out too ;)) Steemit is one of the many ways we can increase the chance of BitShares decentralised market features reaching  a wider audience and continue its development. Supporting Steemit is supporting BitShares. Consider that this may be a significant step to moving beyond an aggressive, often misrepresentative crypto only crowd. Blockchain tech desperately needs new minds.

I do have to ask, how do you think Steemit advances blockchain tech ?  Give us a rundown on this?

IMO basically one could rewrite STEEMIT using a centralized database, but there would be no suckers to buy the tokens because they're not "crypto".  THATS IT.

Am I missing something ?

This "all he is done" is bullshit. I had your attitude ~ 2 years ago and argued with a guy named Adam B Levine. He had quite a bit of history before me.  While I do think he was carried away with hyperbole, (Suggesting Larimers owned 40%+ of BTS etc)  I do think he had legitimate reasons for most everything he said. When these situations repeat themselves, perhaps you should step away and wonder what is really going on and learn from history.

Thats all I will say on this matter, out of respect to collateral damage to various hard working honest supporters. I feel like a dick both ways. Be honest and hurt people, say nothing and let people learn their lesson. "Voluntary shunning" is not that great if you let the next guy get screwed.
Steemit has the potential to enhance the conversation, to bring new ideas, new capital in. All of which increase the chance of further development.

You say my attitude is 'bullshit.' You are of course entitled to you're opinion. I believe in honesty, even if it hurts.  But I don't believe in casual references to complex history, fraught with competing ideas, agendas and a multitude of challenges that then lead to an over-simplistic judgement against a man's integrity. Especially one that has deeply enhanced the community with his intellect, humour and optimism. With friends like these......!

I have no doubt that from your perspective, you feel Stan has over promised and under delivered. Fair enough, but that is certainly not a question of integrity from my perspective.

I never said your attitude was bullshit. (????)    I said "Just stop the anti-dilution bullshit ... "  This was a reference in what needs to happen to get BTS going forward without any active devs.  Oh wait - I said this appeal to his tireless selfless work is bullshit.

You're a nice guy. No doubt Bytemaster has put in a lot of hard work. There is no doubt BitShares wouldn't exist if not for him. I used to stand up for him too. These roles were reversed ~2 years ago when I was you fighting off what I felt was FUD.

I did a lot of what I consider shitty work because no one else was doing it. When asking Dan questions about stuff I had started on, I got no response. He was plenty content to just waste my time. We all see different sides. 

It would have been real easy to continue with the social consensus.  Do you remember that? It is what pulled in a lot of us, including myself.  But no, it is another weird premine from Dan. Now they'd like the few active posters to go over to steemit. Well duh, but should we? You may want to go and I wish you the best experience possible on their site. Just not my thing and I don't want to see users poached for a project that shows no benefit to BTS outside of our wishful thinking.

edit - I'm not Dan's friend or enemy. He is a guy in a project that *I* made the mistake of believing in.  A lot of the stuff that I am displeased with was not intentional. A lot were just poor decisions.  A lot seem to have been made without taking the effects on others into account. Well... this is what happens.

Honestly, sticking up for them too much is probably not a good idea as it just invites responses.  I'd just tell people "Hey there is a group/thread/whatever for BitShares over on steemit." Post direct links. That'd be plenty of cool. People coming around here and trying to get the users to move over is something different. 
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: Ben Mason on May 11, 2016, 04:03:16 pm
Steem's unlimited range of topics appeals to an infinitely wider audience than BitSharesTalk and thus has the benefit of bringing new eyeballs to anything about BitShares posted there.

This includes new DEX users who have picked up a head of Steem and now want to know what other cool things you can do with it.

Kind of like Plutonium.

It's fortunate that those with intractably bitter attitudes want to stay here on BitSharesTalk where no one will see their posts and only positive, optimistic people want to move their constructive, forward thinking opinions into the bright, puffy cloud of Steem where snide comments quickly sink into oblivion.  So it's a really beautiful, self-reinforcing Darwinian selection process. 

No need to formally make such a group decision.  It will sort itself out.

:)

It is very much true that shady people who have one consistent trait of not following through with what they say they're going to do would prefer a site where they and their cohorts can bury any messages pointing this out.

Edit - It shows a lack of integrity to not speak of one's truth beliefs.

All he's done is work tirelessly, tirelessly for BitShares. He has tried to remain a source of optimism, enthuse and inspire the community consistently for years. He is not responsible for project failures and changes of necessity along the way. You would be hard pressed to find anyone with more integrity than Stan. It saddens me that more people who should know better do not realise that.

If you don't like Steem, don't go there but please realise.....for your sake.....that Steemit is BitShares. It took me a while to figure out too ;)) Steemit is one of the many ways we can increase the chance of BitShares decentralised market features reaching  a wider audience and continue its development. Supporting Steemit is supporting BitShares. Consider that this may be a significant step to moving beyond an aggressive, often misrepresentative crypto only crowd. Blockchain tech desperately needs new minds.

I do have to ask, how do you think Steemit advances blockchain tech ?  Give us a rundown on this?

IMO basically one could rewrite STEEMIT using a centralized database, but there would be no suckers to buy the tokens because they're not "crypto".  THATS IT.

Am I missing something ?

This "all he is done" is bullshit. I had your attitude ~ 2 years ago and argued with a guy named Adam B Levine. He had quite a bit of history before me.  While I do think he was carried away with hyperbole, (Suggesting Larimers owned 40%+ of BTS etc)  I do think he had legitimate reasons for most everything he said. When these situations repeat themselves, perhaps you should step away and wonder what is really going on and learn from history.

Thats all I will say on this matter, out of respect to collateral damage to various hard working honest supporters. I feel like a dick both ways. Be honest and hurt people, say nothing and let people learn their lesson. "Voluntary shunning" is not that great if you let the next guy get screwed.
Steemit has the potential to enhance the conversation, to bring new ideas, new capital in. All of which increase the chance of further development.

You say my attitude is 'bullshit.' You are of course entitled to you're opinion. I believe in honesty, even if it hurts.  But I don't believe in casual references to complex history, fraught with competing ideas, agendas and a multitude of challenges that then lead to an over-simplistic judgement against a man's integrity. Especially one that has deeply enhanced the community with his intellect, humour and optimism. With friends like these......!

I have no doubt that from your perspective, you feel Stan has over promised and under delivered. Fair enough, but that is certainly not a question of integrity from my perspective.

I never said your attitude was bullshit. (????)    I said "Just stop the anti-dilution bullshit ... "  This was a reference in what needs to happen to get BTS going forward without any active devs.  Or just hope they do what they say. I get it. You're a nice guy. No doubt Bytemaster has put in a lot of hard work. There is no doubt BitShares wouldn't exist if not for him. I used to stand up for him too. These roles were reversed ~2 years ago when I was you fighting off what I felt was FUD.

It would have been real easy to continue with the social consensus.  Do you remember that? It is what pulled in a lot of us, including myself.  But no, it is another weird premine from Dan. Now they'd like the few active posters to go over to steemit. Well duh, but should we? You may want to go and I wish you the best experience possible on their site. Just not my thing and I don't want to see users poached for a project that shows no benefit to BTS outside of our wishful thinking.
Ok sorry, I misunderstood the bullshit comment. I didn't take it to heart anyway. I don't believe any of the objections to Steem or the motives of the Graphene devs or the status of the BitShares/Steem community or the configuration of native units in Steem are fud. I genuinely welcome the analysis (such as it is.....mine is certainly not very scientific) and the discourse around such topics. I simply believe I have an understanding of flow of events that have led to the launch of Steem. I chose to trust....because I think they've earned it....the core devs primarily and partners within the BitShares/Graphene economy. The reason I am part of the discussion is because I hope for a unity of purpose from within all our connected communities so that we can all be a part of all of the success that will come if we get it right.

Social consensus has failed in many respects which is presumably why it was abandoned in favour of other means to gather support and generate adequate incentives. I was a huge fan of the social consensus but I can accept it was flawed and have come around to the idea of trying new methods.

Don't forget that one of the purposes for the distribution (or apparent initial lack thereof) was to avoid any imperial entanglements. This may be of critical importance in the future.

The way I see it, there is no need for any division between BitShares and Steem from the perspective of the people involved....there is absolutely no them and us. I've been wrong about many things and will be again but that's the way I see it.  I think Steem as a platform will be good for people in general, good for communities (not currently in crypto but need it) and good for BitShares. I know that you've been a staunch defender of everything we are talking about, heck, you've made greater efforts than I have to communicate, challenge and discuss. I also think I understand how you feel. All I can say is thank you gamey.

Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: lil_jay890 on May 11, 2016, 05:25:50 pm
While I agree I3/Larimers/CNX totally raked their shareholders (of ags/pts/btsx/dns/brownies/bts2.0 and soon to be steem) over the coals... there's not much we can do now.  I would say they perhaps knowingly overpromised and embelished in order to sell share's in their investment.  It's not the first or last time that this has happened int he investment world.

Back to moving bts to steem.

Personally I think the format for steem needs a lot of work.  It's basically 5 or 6 people spamming articles trying to earn pay.  Most articles have nothing to do with blockchains or fintech.  Plus there is no way to sort articles by recent responses.  I feel like I have to re read to whole thread just to find the latest comment.  This forum does a good job saving your history of recently viewed or responded to posts.  Until steem can replicate some of the good features of this forum, I don't think talk should be moved over their.  Plus steem is super unorganized.
Title: Re: Move Bitsharestalk to Steemit?
Post by: donkeypong on May 19, 2016, 02:21:01 am
Keep it here unless/until the two merge their features somehow.

EDIT: I have gained enough experience now with STEEM to know that it works very well. While I opposed moving the forum there before, I now would support such a move, if that is what the community decides. It would provide more synergy and reward the people who are still active on this forum.

My opinion on this issue has changed. I have edited my earlier post (see above).